A.Markov vs K.Timonen

[Mrb1p]

Because timonen is easily the better overall defenseman? Guy was great at both ends. Markov was elite at one end, meh in the other

I really cant take you serious if you think Markov wasnt great defensively? Where does that come from? Im actually really surprised.

 

[Dadof5boys]

Only problem I have is you gloss over how Timmonen started his career with the Preds who joined the league with a crap expansion roster

This!

 

[CanadianSniper]

Markov is still playing in the KHL at elite levels, he'd still be in the league if it wasn't for dumb Bergevin signing Alzner instead of him.

There were 29 other teams that could have signed him.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Your isn't either, what is factual is that Markov greatly outproduced Timonen over their career and was an actual 1D from 2003 to 2015.

If Markov was a 1D that entire time frame then there must have been a good 40+ #1 Dmen in the league especially 2010 onward. Both Markov and Timo were guys you want as a #2 not a #1.

 

[bauer]

Timonen easily. peak Markov might have been slightly better offensively, but defensively Timonen was miles ahead.

 

[Mrb1p]

If Markov was a 1D that entire time frame then there must have been a good 40+ #1 Dmen in the league especially 2010 onward. Both Markov and Timo were guys you want as a #2 not a #1.

Thats just so wrong, its like I live in bizarro world... what the heck? I dont even know where to start.. are we really going to act like Markov was not a top 30 Dman ? He produced top 10 numbers over and over and was better than Subban defensively, and most would agree Subban is a top 10 D in the league. Markov might have been the best PP qb of the 05/15 time frame too.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Thats just so wrong, its like I live in bizarro world... what the heck? I dont even know where to start.. are we really going to act like Markov was not a top 30 Dman ?He had a short peak and the same argument you use against Timmonen also fits him he was mediocre from 10-onward there were plenty of Dmen better from him 2010 onward

He produced top 10 numbers over and over thats a strange way of saying only 2 years he was good in 08 and 09 throw in the lockout year if you want but those were the only years he was top 10 in any of Gs, As, Pts, or +/- the rest of that time frame he was far down the list and not even in the top 30 for most of it

and was better than Subban defensively, and most would agree Subban is a top 10 D in the league. Markov might have been the best PP qb of the 05/15 time frame too. Now you are extremely overrating him for an era that saw prime Keith, Chara, Niedermeyer, Lidstrom, Gonchar, with guys like Karlsson emerging in that period as well you are reaching homer levels that have never been seen before.

 

[Mrb1p]

From 06 to 16 he has finished top 30 in every year he played a full year in Norris voting.
From 12 to 16, he's 10th in offensive production (This time frame would be much longer had he not been injured for two calendar years.)
From 05 to 16, he's SEVENTH in raw numbers, even if he missed two whole years to injuries. He's 8th for PPG, he'd be seecond to Lidstrom for players with over 500 games, first with over 600 games.

Id retract my statement of best PP QB to include Gonchar and Lidstrom, both of them outproduced him in PPppg.
25th in 02-03
43rd in 03-04
Lockout
Top 15 in 05-06
Top 15 in 06-07
7th in 07-08
6th in 08-09
5th in PPG in 09-10
3rd in 12-13
20th in 13-14 at 35, no less.
11th in 14-15, at 36, no less.
20th in 15-16, at 37.

Essentially, Markov has never finished lower than 20th in scoring from the lockout to the end of his career (And he probably had another top 20 or two years in him.) yet you're going to call him a a 40ish Dman ? Come, the, f***, on.

Now, its fine to underrate his offense, he never was the best offensively as per statistical metrics, and his career overlapped with Lidstrom, Pronger and Karlsson, so the opportunity wasn't there for him to dominate, but the numbers don't lie. Five top 11 finishes in a 6 year span.

His real claim to fame is the nine seasons nine straight seasons he played where he ranked top 20. This is something HOF defenders do, not 2Ds...

 

[Sensinitis]

Thats just so wrong, its like I live in bizarro world... what the heck? I dont even know where to start.. are we really going to act like Markov was not a top 30 Dman ? He produced top 10 numbers over and over and was better than Subban defensively, and most would agree Subban is a top 10 D in the league. Markov might have been the best PP qb of the 05/15 time frame too.

If that dude thinks Markov is ideally a 2D, then I wouldn’t even bother talking to him. This website is better suited for discussion, not education.

 

[TT1]

Markov came back from a bunch of potential career ending injuries and was still a better dman than Timonen, don't see how this is close at all. Markov's hockey IQ was on another stratosphere.

 

[A55P2]

Markov had that inate ability to find the winger at the opposite sides of him on the PP (pardon my french, I know what I mean it's just hard to translate). I've never seen anybody as good as him with that specific type of pass ever. It's as if this was something he had to do, he just passed it tape to tape, very precise and obviously at the right place for a good shot. Not that he was the best powerplay dman ever, but with that specific type of pass he sets the bar for perfection. To me that's worth a lot, he's got my vote.

 

[Albatros]

Both were really good at their best, but Timonen was somewhat better career-wise.

 

[Sasso09]

I really cant take you serious if you think Markov wasnt great defensively? Where does that come from? Im actually really surprised.

Great? You must think a lot of guys Are great. Markov was nowhere near the player timonen was defensively

 

[Frank Drebin]

It's almost as if there's more than point totals as a defenseman that could determine his worth.

In the case of these 2, what would that be?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Timonen easily. peak Markov might have been slightly better offensively, but defensively Timonen was miles ahead.

Timonens partner was who again?

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Timonens partner was who again?

Timonen was a #1 shut down defender before playing with Pronger in Nashville

Hamhuis was their #2