A.J. Thelen/Ryan Suter

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by db23, May 8, 2004.

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  1. db23

    db23 Guest

    Some are saying that A.J. Thelen will not be a top 10 pick this year. What does that say about Ryan Suter who was taken 7th overall a year ago? Thelen was clearly superior to Suter this year in the NCAA. Thelen was a first team CCHA All Star and second team All American, while Suter only managed to win WCHA All Rookie nomination. Plus Thelen is a lot bigger and about a year and a half younger than Suter.

    Is this year's draft crop superior to last year? Is Thelen underrated? Is Suter overrated? Some combination of thsoe things?
     
    Last edited by moderator : May 8, 2004
  2. Taxman

    Taxman Registered User

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    Thelen's stock has sky rocketed. He will go in the top 7 of the draft this year, and might even go top 5.
     
  3. Sammy*

    Sammy* Guest

    On what basis do you say "Thelen was clearly superior to Suter this year in the NCAA"?
     
  4. Enoch

    Enoch This is my boomstick

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    Do you basis every single post on statistics? :shakehead I swear, you try to use stats in every post to prove that "player x" is better than "player y", and frankly.....there is an incredible amount of OTHER things that make a player great than the stat sheet.
     
  5. PhoPhan

    PhoPhan Registered User

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    While your logic may be flawed, you do raise a good point. I, too, feel that Thelen is better than Suter. Suter was drafted where he was because he is somewhat overrated, in my opinion.
     
  6. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    Just curious, why is he overrated? Not accusing you of what I am about to say, but I am sick of posters like db23 (who seems to hate the Preds) who make all these comments on players they have never really seen save for a few clips or a game.
     
  7. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    Don't pay much attention to him. When he likes a defenseman, he finds another one to compare him to, then drives the opposing Dmen into the ground with his 'stats'. He attempted to do it with several defensemen when trying to defend Komisarek and he'll do it again here. I'd hate to see what happens if he falls in love with a defenseman like Zidlicky. It'll be his wet dream. I can see it now, Pitkanen was taken #4 overall in 2002. Zidlicky was taken in the latter rounds of 2001. In their rookies years... and to sum it up, how overrated is Pitkanen? :D

    As for the stats aspect, Suter was Wisconsin's shutdown Dman. While Thelen was relied upon heavily, his primary job wasn't to stop opposing offenses. Many defenseman have their stats suppressed because they can't worry about offense. Suter recieved most of his offense due to nice breakout passes. He didn't spend a ton of time in the offensive zone trying to score.
     
  8. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    A year and a half? He's about 1 year, 1 month and 20 days older. That's a helluva rounding job.
     
  9. Sammy*

    Sammy* Guest

    I'll have an add on to that. How many times have you seen each of these guys play & have you seen any scouting reports comparing these two. Furthurmore, if Thelen is actually better, given that Suter was commonly thought of as the US #1 or #2 D-man, one would have thought that Thelen would have at least actually made the team.
    Some many of guys on these boards go by stats alone. The joke is 2-fold. There is way more to the game than stats and furthurmore, alot of stats/players games dont translate into stats in the NHL.
     
  10. #2

    #2 Registered User

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    The reason i think that Suter was drafted so high last year is because he is a good solid prospect and should turn out to be a valuable two way defender. Also i think it depends alot on the draft example the players in the draft as well some times GMs get caught up on the notion of drafting a player with size. With that said last years draft was a deep draft not really top heavy. This years draft is tremendously top heavy so the first 7 or 10 picks are gonna be players that come with terrific amount of potential, that also pushes Thelen's draft spot back. Ovechkin and Malkin already seem to have the lock on 1st and 2nd, Olesz and Barker also seem to be locks to be taken in the top 5. Ladd, Tukonen, Schremp,Wolski all seem to be headed within the top 10 or at least top 12. So all in all thats 8 guys that have a good 90% chance of going in the top 10 leaving 2 spots available for Thelen to be drafted in.
    Last thing in last year's draft teams also needed Defenseman such as Nashville, Calgary and Atlanta who all drafted dmen in the top 10 while this year there is a smaller demand for defenseman with top 10 picks.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2004
  11. PhoPhan

    PhoPhan Registered User

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    I merely think that Suter was the 3rd best defenseman last year. I'd have rather taken Coburn or Phaneuf, and if I was Nashville, I'd have taken either especially because I already have guys like Hamhuis, Timonen and Zidlicky.
     
  12. PuckFan01

    PuckFan01 Registered User

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    Having seen both guys play a number of times this past year, I'd put Thelen above Suter. Thelen appeared to me to be a more well rounded defenseman than Suter. Suter is physical and plays solid defense but I wasn't very impressed with him on the offensive end of the rink in terms of puckhandling and passing. I will admit that part of Suter's lack of offense is partially due to the fact he doesn't have much for offensively skilled teammates on Wisconsin (a very boring team with a boring style of play). But I feel Thelen was more impressive overall. Not to mention the fact he was younger than your typical freshman since he had accelerated high school.
     
  13. db23

    db23 Guest

    What is everyone screaming about "stats"? Which stats did I metion? The fact that Thelen was named to the West All America team and Suter was not? I suppose it may be considered a "stat" on their record at some point, but if Martin St. Louis wins the MVP, can you call St. Louis' All Star appearance and other post season awards just "meaningless stats"?

    To me it seems fairly apparent that Thelen had a better freshman year than Suter in the NCAA. If you want some "stats" then it is 6-3, 210, 18 yrs, vs. 6-1, 185, 19 yrs. If Suter warrants the 7th overall pick in last years draft, then Thelen has to deserve at least the saem this year.
     
  14. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    All I can say is that if Thelen is a better than Suter, than he is one heck of prospect as Suter has done nothing to indicate he didn't deserve to be the 7th overall pick in his draft year.
     
  15. montreal

    montreal Go Habs Go

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    Well in my opinion, Thelen is the top defensemen in this draft, but that's just me. I've seen more of Thelen then Barker but I'd be happy with either one, it's close between the 2 of them. As for Suter he's a solid prospect and I like his physical game, I'd take Thelen over Suter, but not by too much, just based off what I've seen.
     
  16. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    I've never seen Thelen play, but I find it hard to believe that he's better than Suter. Quite frankly, I think Suter has the ability to be a franchise player a-la a Brian Leetch. No kidding.

    Does Thelen have Suter's mean streak?
     
  17. fan1234

    fan1234 Registered User

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    O'Neil Was invited to play at the Wor;d under 18's...Thelen was not. Who would know thelen better than the NTDP?
     
  18. montreal

    montreal Go Habs Go

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    Hard to compare since they play for different countries, but Thelen's 41 points vs O'Neils 12 does stick out. I can only say from what I've seen of both. Thelen is impressive in all areas of the rink, he's big skates well is solid in his own end, will take the body and has a good shot/offensive abilities. Whoever gets him at the draft will be happy they did, no matter if he's better or not then Suter, O'Neil or Barker, he's very skilled for sure.
     
  19. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    The U.S. has it's own under 18 program that plays together year round, and the bulk of the players is made up from that group.
     
  20. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    There's nothing wrong with saying that. It's not like Suter is the benchmark for all defensive players. Nashville liked him, and the pick was totally justified. If Thelen is better that that will bear itself out, and that's a good thing, especially for USA Hockey.
     
  21. db23

    db23 Guest

    I think Thelen was still playing for MSU when the U18 was on. As someone said they basically go with the NDTP team that was together all year. Thelen would certainly have been there if he had not accelerated his schooling to enter D1 a year early.
     
  22. uofmfan

    uofmfan Registered User

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    A.J Thelen/Ryan Suter

    A.J.was invited to go to the World U 18's. Do to classes and finals at Michigan State it was something that just would not work. The USA program along with his parents tried to make it happen. It came down to missing to many days of class and than returning for finals the next week. Maybe we can watch him in North Dakota next year with the U 20's its over christmas break.
     
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