A case for NHL in Houston!

Jarnevic

Registered User
Jan 22, 2007
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tornado alley
"I went to Alaska recently...and they're kinda cocky 'cause they're an insecure state. They're like, 'Our state is twice the size of Texas.' I'm like, 'Ya, we don't like THAT state either." - Mike Birbiglia
 

Stars-Preds

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Jul 25, 2005
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With the amount of empty seats in Dallas during the NHL AllStar game... that alone to me speaks volumes about the validity of hockey in Texas. Sure it is packed when the Stars are Stanley Cup contenders, but otherwise...

Like Bill Parcell's leaving the Cowboys was the only sports news in Dallas on the day of the AllStar Skills, Young Guns - and the NHL was pushed to page 10 of the news.

The same city that lost an NFL team once before in football mad Texas.

And I know some will get all defensive about what I'm saying. And so be it. It's the truth.

As mentioned before, the All-Star game was a sellout. What are the chances of all 18,000 people being in their seats at the same time? People go to the bathroom, concession stands, the bars, etc. The YoungStars Game and Skills Competition was also sold out but people (mostly NHL people, not Texas people) didn't show up.

I was at the game and can tell you the place was packed.

If you want to talk about the validity of hockey in Texas why not start with how much hockey has grown in the 13 years the Stars have been in Texas.
 

Westguy13

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Apr 6, 2005
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Not KC...
The Dakotas? Minot, Rapid City, Souix Falls, Grand Forks, Bismark, Fargo? Is there a facility in Crosby? That could be an enticing move, from a marketing perspective, for the Penguins. At least it snows there.

Uhhh there are 650,00 people in the entire state of North Dakota, 750,000 in South. You really think they could support a team?

Top city in each Dakota
Population of Sioux Falls 139,000
Population of Fargo 90,000

Hell there are 4 other cities bigger then those within an hour of KC.

Nobody's going to move an NHL franchise there I don't care if they have snow or not.

Houston would be a decent move KC too. I really don't see any options out side those two that look too enticing right now. Only other city I could really see making a decent NHL city would be Indianapolis if they had an arena just due to sheer size (1.5 mil 4th biggest metro in the US) and a bit of a hockey following.
 

Timmy

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Feb 2, 2005
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Uhhh there are 650,00 people in the entire state of North Dakota, 750,000 in South. You really think they could support a team?

Top city in each Dakota
Population of Sioux Falls 139,000
Population of Fargo 90,000


The best part about having a team in Fargo would be Wood Chipper Night.
 

Old Hickory

Guest
With the amount of empty seats in Dallas during the NHL AllStar game... that alone to me speaks volumes about the validity of hockey in Texas. Sure it is packed when the Stars are Stanley Cup contenders, but otherwise...
The NHL controls most of the seats for the All Star game. The organization gets very few seats which, as already stated in the this thread, were sold.
 

Rotang

Registered User
Sep 30, 2005
2,394
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Dallas, TX
As mentioned before, the All-Star game was a sellout. What are the chances of all 18,000 people being in their seats at the same time? People go to the bathroom, concession stands, the bars, etc. The YoungStars Game and Skills Competition was also sold out but people (mostly NHL people, not Texas people) didn't show up.

I was at the game and can tell you the place was packed.

If you want to talk about the validity of hockey in Texas why not start with how much hockey has grown in the 13 years the Stars have been in Texas.
I don't know about that.

I was able to buy FOUR tickets in the lower bowl the day of the Skills Competition off the Stars' website. There were a noticeable number of seats and luxury boxes empty. I also checked the site on Wednesday for ***** and giggles and was able to reserve two tickets in the upper bowl for the All-star game - though I was flat broke by that time :(

In Dallas' defense, the majority of Stars fans in this area are just that - Stars fans. They're not NHL fans. If Modano and Zubov don't get injured and are playing in the game, the ASG would likely have sold out weeks in advance.

Also, as stated in this thread, the firing of Bill Parcels worked against them. There is a large fanbase here, but football still takes precedence with a large number of them. "Who will be the next Cowboy's coach?" is the predominant discussion going on this week, unfortunately.
 
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kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
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This is a point that seems lost on a lot of people when discussing market success/viability. If a metro area has a gigantic population, it might not even matter if hockey is popular in the area overall. It can still be a successful business there. The Dallas metro area has what, six million people? That is huge. The Houston metro area... well over five million people? Again, huge. Heck, hockey could probably even be tenth on the sports popularity totem pole in places like this and still succeed as a business just because the sheer population numbers are so overwhelming. (Not to mention corporate presence as well, of course.)
The city of Houston (2,016,582 - 4th largest city in the US) is bigger than Dallas (1,213,825 - 9th largest), although the Dallas metro area is a little bigger than Houston's (5,819,475 vs 5,280,077). Numbers from US Census 7/1/05 population estimates.
 

Westguy13

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Apr 6, 2005
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Not KC...
The city of Houston (2,016,582 - 4th largest city in the US) is bigger than Dallas (1,213,825 - 9th largest), although the Dallas metro area is a little bigger than Houston's (5,819,475 vs 5,280,077). Numbers from US Census 7/1/05 population estimates.

Town population means nothing it's the metro area that matters.
 

MoMiester

Registered User
Oct 26, 2006
90
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With the amount of empty seats in Dallas during the NHL AllStar game... that alone to me speaks volumes about the validity of hockey in Texas. Sure it is packed when the Stars are Stanley Cup contenders, but otherwise...

Like Bill Parcell's leaving the Cowboys was the only sports news in Dallas on the day of the AllStar Skills, Young Guns - and the NHL was pushed to page 10 of the news.

The same city that lost an NFL team once before in football mad Texas.

And I know some will get all defensive about what I'm saying. And so be it. It's the truth.

Those empty seats were not Dallas hockey fans, they were owned by business people like Asper and Chipman out of Winnipeg, and the CEO of whatever company. How many of those center ice tickets do you think were actually bought by Hockey fans. None or the ones that had an arse in it.

Those other people were Execs who had a ticket but had to be on a conference call or were sitting in a box or were at the bar or doing business.

I thought that was just a known fact but I guess not.

You can not blame the Dallas hockey fans for that one.
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
I was thinking, since the North Stars moved to Dallas maybe the NHL can some how get the wild to move to Houston to really piss of the Minnesota fans. :biglaugh:
 

StevenintheATL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2004
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The ATL!
Houston is the largest TV market in the US without an NHL team.

The one fly in the ointment would be the Minnesota Wild since they own the Houston Aeros of the AHL. There would definitely have to be some compensation handed over to them if the Pens (or any other NHL team) were to move to Houston. I doubt there is any workable solution to have both the Aeros and another hockey operating out of the same building. The Aeros would have to move elsewhere.
 

Westguy13

Registered User
Apr 6, 2005
1,524
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Not KC...
Houston is the largest TV market in the US without an NHL team.

The one fly in the ointment would be the Minnesota Wild since they own the Houston Aeros of the AHL. There would definitely have to be some compensation handed over to them if the Pens (or any other NHL team) were to move to Houston. I doubt there is any workable solution to have both the Aeros and another hockey operating out of the same building. The Aeros would have to move elsewhere.

If I remember correctly there was a place for them to play if they were put out by an NHL franchise. I may be mistaken though.
 

AVSfan2daMAX

Registered User
Nov 24, 2006
4,536
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Absolutely Houston should be considered for expansion/relocation. The city is huge. You got the population, the corporate dollars, the arena...all you need is for a team to decide to relocate!

I'd love to see a team in Houston.

My second choice is Portland.

IMO those 2 cities should be the 2 top priorities for the league (albeit I doubt they want/need expansion)
 

chizzler

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Jan 11, 2006
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I'd like to see contraction before I see a team in Houston. The talent pool is too thin already. Nashville is good example of a southern team not working, as is Florida. A Canadian city should get a team easily. There is no way Houston deserves a team because of TV rating and such. Texas is a football state let's face it. You can't spread hockey in a state that the high school football teams get more air time. It's better to get front page news in the north than in South Fork. Anyhow the cap will help an team now with finances. Let's keep going south that'll save the NHL. Common.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
Right, because it would be a much smarter decision to put a team in Badger Titty, Alberta or some other little Canadian "city," right? Because they're real fans! At least they get snow!

:biglaugh:

Classic. :biglaugh:
 

Old Hickory

Guest
Right, because it would be a much smarter decision to put a team in Badger Titty, Alberta or some other little Canadian "city," right? Because they're real fans! At least they get snow!

That's some funny ****! Good job :bow:
 

Jazz

Registered User
I'd like to see contraction before I see a team in Houston. The talent pool is too thin already. Nashville is good example of a southern team not working, as is Florida. A Canadian city should get a team easily. There is no way Houston deserves a team because of TV rating and such. Texas is a football state let's face it. You can't spread hockey in a state that the high school football teams get more air time. It's better to get front page news in the north than in South Fork. Anyhow the cap will help an team now with finances. Let's keep going south that'll save the NHL. Common.
(A) Contraction will not happen for the simple reason that the rest of the owners are not going to cough up over $150million per team to buy out the current ownership of any team.

(B) Statistics and the fall of the Eastern bloc shoot down your theory of "the talent pool spread too thin"

Think about it.

  • Back in the 80s:
    • 22 players/team x 21 teams x ~80% Canadians = ~370 Canadians out of about 460 total players
  • Now:
    • 22 players/team x 30 teams x ~55% Canadians = ~365 Canadians out of about 660 total players .
Conclusion #1: The absolute # of Canadians roughly the same as before - so no dilution affect there, unless you are going to argue that Canadians are not as talented as back then.

The total number of non-Canadians has risen by about 200, but since the 80s we've seen
  • the fall of the Eastern bloc and the influx of many players from
    • Russia,
    • Czech Republic,
    • Slovakia,
    • Belarus,
    • Latvia,
    • Kazakhstan,
    • Ukraine etc
  • The United States also has increasing numbers of players in the league, especially with their youth development program
  • Finland has also since developed into a hockey power (they were not before) and have increased representation in the NHL
  • Germany has more NHLers than ever before
  • and the league also has representation from 2nd tier nations like
    • France (an elite goalie in Huet),
    • Austria (Vanek is going to be a stud, if not already),
    • Slovenia (Calder candidate in Kopitar),
    • Norway (Thoresen and Tolefssen) etc
Conclusion #2: The roughly 200 increase in non-Canadians since the 80s has been pretty good talent.

OVERALL Conclusion - Hardly any DILUTION, and Expansion was neccessary and came at the right time. In fact we were only catching up - if other leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB) can support about 30 teams with mostly American talent, the NHL can easily support 30ish with it's bigger international pool to draw on.
 

WheatiesHockey

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
585
5
Most people thought Gary Bettman et al had maximised NHL expasnion during the 90's now they are talking about another 2 teams. Ok well how about Winnipeg and Houston? If Houston is in so is the Peg' ok?
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
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Toronto
The peg sucks! There is very little corporate support there and population. Why don't you guys get it through your head? The NHL FAILED in winnipeg and it was an economic disaster.

Again, the NHL failed in Winnipeg... bottomline.
 

J-Zilla

Registered User
Jan 19, 2007
36
0
The peg sucks! There is very little corporate support there and population. Why don't you guys get it through your head? The NHL FAILED in winnipeg and it was an economic disaster.

Again, the NHL failed in Winnipeg... bottomline.


So what? The NHL "failed" in Minnesota (North Stars), Colorado (Rockies), Northern California (Golden Seals), and Atlanta (Flames). All re-acquired teams later on. Should those cities never have been given a second chance?
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
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Toronto
So what? The NHL "failed" in Minnesota (North Stars), Colorado (Rockies), Northern California (Golden Seals), and Atlanta (Flames). All re-acquired teams later on. Should those cities never have been given a second chance?

No no.. it's just Winnipeg (and many canadians) feel it's there right to get the next chance to get a team. Let's not forget that most of the owners are american, most of the teams are american, the commish is american, all Canadians really do is play for the teams and make money. :biglaugh:
 

Crosby87.*

Guest
The peg sucks! There is very little corporate support there and population. Why don't you guys get it through your head? The NHL FAILED in winnipeg and it was an economic disaster.

Again, the NHL failed in Winnipeg... bottomline.

Ignorant Americans.
 

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