A 32 team league.

Fugu

Guest
between 95-96 and 00-01 the proportion of Canadian teams in the NHL fell from 31% to 20% - 11% in 5 years. If it had nothing to do with American manipulation of circumstance, please explain.


Well, some Canadian teams were moved, unfortunately, due to arena and ownership issues. What should have been done?


And the NHL powers that be (led by the 1980's cabal and the corrupt NHLPA head) decided to expand over the course of the 1990's. Should they have added 8 teams to Canada? If yes, where in Canada would you propose?
 

bacon25

Unenthusiastic User
Nov 29, 2010
3,867
333
Group Study Room F
The NHL is all about money and by expansion they can get a lot of it. As for diluting talent I believe that there is PLENTY of NHL talent out their, I wonder why everyone wants these super teams when half that team will be injured because another teams 3rd line runs them over. I have said this before Bettman does not want to expand or relocate teams so this whole thread is moot( I haven't heard him say anything about contraction but I assume he is against it or else he would have contracted Phoenix two years ago). Bettman just signed a sweet contract that has him in power for the foreseeable future and I dont' see him changing his mind on these issues. For those who want contraction they should be careful of what they wish for unless you live in an original 6 team city, any NHL team could be contracted.

Me, I just want more Canadian teams so that I can finally watch an NHL game live. Plus I feel it is good for the culture of the country and game. Unfortunatly that is not what the NHL is about.
 

MoreOrr

B4
Jun 20, 2006
24,420
438
Mexico
Well, some Canadian teams were moved, unfortunately, due to arena and ownership issues. What should have been done?

And it's not as though there were other Canadian cities that those teams could've been moved to. And we can't forget that Hartford was also a victim.

Put simply, how many other Canadian cities could truly qualify to get NHL teams, other than the two that lost teams, and probably southern Ontario. DiesIrae, your argument is baseless simply on that account.
 

obsenssive*

Guest
What in the world are you whinging about this time??????



And furthermore, are there no greedy Canadians? Are all Canadian owners altruistic who only own teams for the "good of the game" as defined by posters who wish to make this a nationality versus a business issue?

Canadian owners have been onboard with every expansion made, or not made if you go back to the WHA days. ;)


There's a thread discussing the power brokers of the league. Why don't you go there and add your two cents? It's not 'just' Americans or 'just' Canadians.

To belabor this further, did you stop to consider that there are 300m Americans, and 30m Canadians (+/- a few million, someone can correct me). DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT?

And another thing..... what if the NHL adds teams in Winnipeg and QC? What is that going to do to your proportionality argument? Are you going to draw up more lists where Canadian teams should be added just for kicks because you really do start running out of bigger cities at that point.

this entire argument is disproven by five words:
SUNRISE - ATLANTA - GLENDALE - TAMBA BAY - ANAHEIM

great great great pro-hockey moves there by the NHL. just amazing. absolutely no BLIND American market capitalization attempts going on here. none. they are great for the sport of hockey. I would like to praise the selflessness of the NHL for working so hard for the integrity of the league.
 

Fugu

Guest
this entire argument is disproven by five words:
SUNRISE - ATLANTA - GLENDALE - TAMBA BAY - ANAHEIM

great great great pro-hockey moves there by the NHL. just amazing. absolutely no BLIND American market capitalization attempts going on here. none. they are great for the sport of hockey. I would like to praise the selflessness of the NHL for working so hard for the integrity of the league.

I'm having a hard time understanding what point you're trying to make. I personally don't agree with the NHL's expansion plan of the 90's because I don't believe in the "grow the game" crap nor do I believe that expanding the footprint would lead to the big fat TV contract.

But I do believe that the Canadian owners were fully onboard, chasing the same pipe dream. The NHL is a business after all. Words like integrity as you use it here are meaningless to the business guys on both sides of the border.
 

Fugu

Guest
@ Killion.

As a self-professed contractionist, traditionalist, Bettman-averse, Original Six fan that hails from about the same era as you--- I don't get how I'm lumped in with some mod conspiracy to silence you Canucks.
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
8
Ottawa, ON
this entire argument is disproven by five words:
SUNRISE - ATLANTA - GLENDALE - TAMBA BAY - ANAHEIM

great great great pro-hockey moves there by the NHL. just amazing. absolutely no BLIND American market capitalization attempts going on here. none. they are great for the sport of hockey. I would like to praise the selflessness of the NHL for working so hard for the integrity of the league.

Agreed. Your five words (actually six - but hey, counting is hard. Also, Where is Tamba Bay?) disprove the fact that Canadian owners were on board with expansion to Sunrise, Tampa, Atlanta, and Anaheim, and voted largely in favour of the move to Glendale. It also disproves the silly falsehood that the US has ten times the population of Canada, and that Canadian owners have no interest in treating their hockey teams as a business.

Mod: deleted.
 
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obsenssive*

Guest
Agreed. Your five words (actually six - but hey, counting is hard. Also, Where is Tamba Bay?) disprove the fact that Canadian owners were on board with expansion to Sunrise, Tampa, Atlanta, and Anaheim, and voted largely in favour of the move to Glendale. It also disproves the silly falsehood that the US has ten times the population of Canada, and that Canadian owners have no interest in treating their hockey teams as a business.

but why did they vote? because it was promised to them that blind American attempts at market capitalization would benefit them financially. it was nothing but pure lies. hence the NHL was manipulated to become less Canadian under false pretenses. I could live with it had they WORKED! I wouldn't like it, but at least I would know that at least the American owners and governing system weren't trying to subvert the Canadian owners.
 

Fugu

Guest
but why did they vote? because it was promised to them that blind American attempts at market capitalization would benefit them financially. it was nothing but pure lies. hence the NHL was manipulated to become less Canadian under false pretenses. I could live with it had they WORKED! I wouldn't like it, but at least I would know that at least the American owners and governing system weren't trying to subvert the Canadian owners.

So you're saying that Canadian owners are incompetent and incapable of reasoning for themselves? It was evil Americans that lied to them about the expansion, namely to dilute the Canadian content because Americans hate Canadians?


I'm flabbergasted. I actually like Canadians. I'd love to have more teams there if there was a way to make the business side work. Heck, I even like traveling to Canada, and often do. I must be an American mutant, or I missed where in our histories we started hating each other. I know there are disagreements and maybe a greater gap in values than in previous times, perhaps, may depend on region or that even America is divided, but there's a reason the border is still generally unprotected.
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,134
23,681
So you're saying that Canadian owners are incompetent and incapable of reasoning for themselves? It was evil Americans that lied to them about the expansion, namely to dilute the Canadian content because Americans hate Canadians?


I'm flabbergasted. I actually like Canadians. I'd love to have more teams there if there was a way to make the business side work. Heck, I even like traveling to Canada, and often do. I must be an American mutant, or I missed where in our histories we started hating each other. I know there are disagreements and maybe a greater gap in values than in previous times, perhaps, may depend on region or that even America is divided, but there's a reason the border is still generally unprotected.

Thankfully, most Americans remain ignorant of the actual outcome of the War of 1812. ;)
 

danishh

Registered User
Dec 9, 2006
33,018
53
YOW
i'm a proponent of a 32 team league. I think that it's the ideal size, and allows the league to grow in underrepresented areas of the US without having to move franchises like atlanta and florida, who struggle financially at the moment but represent important markets for the NHL.

the two teams i'll add are seattle and houston. Why? Because those are what seem to be the two biggest underserved markets according to 2010 census data. Maybe my opinion changes when metro/CSA data comes out in july, but until then washington is the largest unserved state, and texas appears to be underserved with just one team.

I'll do 2 models, one with phoenix and one with winnipeg.

w/phoenix:
7sA0D.png


w/winnipeg:
GRqYB.png



put a heavier emphasis on divisional play. Heck, make the first round of the playoffs a divisional round, with the top 2 teams from each division making it. There will be a lot of whining about how the 3rd place team in a certain division deserved to make it, but who cares, this will build rivalries and make the regular season more meaningful.

Align conferences however you like. East/west could still work, but some sort of mixing would be available as well.
 

Dado

Guest
between 95-96 and 00-01 the proportion of Canadian teams in the NHL fell from 31% to 20% - 11% in 5 years. If it had nothing to do with American manipulation of circumstance, please explain.

In 1967 Canadian teams made up just 16% of the league, so it would seem we've been improving for over 40 years.

And in case you didn't know - the reason Vancouver didn't make that first round of expansion was because the two existing CANADIAN teams kept them out - they didn't want to share TV revenue.
 

bacon25

Unenthusiastic User
Nov 29, 2010
3,867
333
Group Study Room F
Canadians don't hate Americans and American's don't hate Canadians, generalizations like this breed more stereotypical ignorance. Individuals may hate Canada/America and groups may think alike in the same vein but sweeping generalizations are incorrect.
 

Dado

Guest
As a self-professed contractionist, traditionalist, Bettman-averse, Original Six fan that hails from about the same era as you--- I don't get how I'm lumped in with some mod conspiracy to silence you Canucks.

You're not.

We love you.

And we will have him dealt with "off forum". ;)
 

Fugu

Guest
Canadians don't have Americans and American's don't hate Canadians, generalizations like this breed more stereotypical ignorance. Individuals may hate Canada/America and groups may think alike in the same vein but sweeping generalizations are incorrect.


If you're implying this is a position I put forth, you may wish to review the context of the exchange. Even in stereotyping, it would be hard to find that dislike between Americans and Canadians as a general rule actually exists. That would rule out "stereotyping".
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
@ Killion.As a self-professed contractionist, traditionalist, Bettman-averse, Original Six fan that hails from about the same era as you--- I don't get how I'm lumped in with some mod conspiracy to silence you Canucks.

:facepalm: Please forgive my Bretheren....

Also, Where is Tamba Bay? Disprove the fact that Canadian owners were on board with expansion to Sunrise, Tampa, Atlanta, and Anaheim, and voted largely in favour of the move to Glendale.

Sure. Heres your choice Mr. Ballard; Ron Joyce & Hamilton who refuses to cough up $50M and wants to lowball us at $30M or Captain Canada Phil Esposito, his friends & yours, the Japanese Yakuza at full pop in Tampa?. Additionally, if we let those WHA Sonfsof... in QC & Wpg burnout, you'll get a bigger slice of those government funds from the CBC. Is that what yer thinkin Haymaker?.... I could go up & down the list if you'd like, but I really have no wish to dignify such idiocy with replys....
 
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MoreOrr

B4
Jun 20, 2006
24,420
438
Mexico
i'm a proponent of a 32 team league.

I'll do 2 models, one with phoenix and one with winnipeg.

I'm a definite proponent of keeping the 6 Divisions, regardless of 32 teams or not. 8-team Divisions are too large, 4-team Divisions are too small.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,227
13,595
Folsom
A 32 team league can and will work when the time is right. I don't believe the problems are as dire as people like to think they are. Past Phoenix, none of the teams are really that bad off. The Islanders simply need a new arena. Once that happens, they will be fine. If they don't get it, they'll move to Brooklyn but they'll still be the Islanders. Once the Atlanta ownership situation settles, they just need to ice a team that can compete and make the playoffs more than once in a decade. Same goes for the Panthers. The Nashville situation worked itself out once the ownership situation was handled. The same will occur in Dallas. The same happened in Tampa. The league is a lot healthier than people make it appear to be.

As for the extra two teams, it will go to the places that have the arena and ownership ready to go, regardless of location. So Winnipeg will be first on the list and when QC completes their arena in 2015, they will be #2. I could see Kansas City getting a team only if there is an ownership group interested in making it work there. I don't see that currently. If the Coyotes have to move, I would be willing to bet that the NHL will definitely expand and slot a team in Phoenix to give it a new start.

Other locations being discussed like Seattle, Portland, Houston, Sacramento, Wisconsin, Las Vegas, etc., all have their issues. Houston is the most realistic one if Les Alexander wants to make it happen. He might be tired of chasing the NHL at this point. All the other locations don't have arenas or owners or both to be worth discussing yet. I would personally like the NHL in Seattle and Portland since they have no Northwest American footprint for the NHL but have hockey roots there. However, I'd be perfectly content having teams in Winnipeg and QC as they are pretty close to ready and deserve a second chance.
 

Fugu

Guest
The fact that we're stuck with a crappy national anthem?


That anthem alone makes me want to outlaw the singing and playing of anthems at all public events. That's before I consider the "oversinging" (aka screeching for the high notes) that's in vogue these days. Ugggh.

so... 5-5-6 or unbalanced conferences?


Danishh, don't encourage him. You know he's just dying to do one of those infamous realignment threads. :laugh:
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,227
13,595
Folsom
I'm a definite proponent of keeping the 6 Divisions, regardless of 32 teams or not. 8-team Divisions are too large, 4-team Divisions are too small.

I would only be for the 8 team divisions if they bring back the divisional playoff format. That playoff format helps bring rivalries more than anything to me.
 

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