9th Baseball ATD Round 1 NL New York @ Yomiuri

[Pwnasaurus]

New York Yankees


C - Roy Campanella, Jorge Posada
1B - Dan Brouthers, George Sisler
2B - Joe Gordon, Billy Herman
SS - Alan Trammell, Bill Dahlen
3B - Eddie Mathews, Bill Dahlen
LF - Paul Waner, Albert Belle
CF - Kenny Lofton; Jim Wynn
RF - Roberto Clemente, Albert Belle

SP - Roger Clemens, Grover Alexander, Mike Mussina, Old Hoss Radbourn, Harry Brecheen
RP - Dennis Eckersley, Billy Wagner, Tom Henke, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Tom Bergmeier



Lineup:
1. Kenny Lofton (L)
2. Roberto Clemente (R)
3. Eddie Mathews (R)
4. Dan Brouthers (L)
5. Roy Campanella (R)
6. Paul Waner (L)
7. Alan Trammell (R)
8. Joe Gordon (R)
9. Pitcher's Spot


Bench:
Albert Belle - LF/RF
Jim Wynn - LF/RF/CF
Bill Dahlen - 3B/SS
Jorge Posada - C
George Sisler - 1B
Billy Herman - 2B


Rotation:
1. Roger Clemens (R)
2. Grover Alexander (R)
3. Mike Mussina (R)
4. Old Hoss Radbourne (R)
5. Harry Brecheen (L)

CL: Billy Wagner (L)
RP: Dennis Eckersley (R)
RP: Tom Henke (R)
RP: Keith Foulke (R)
RP: Tom Gordon (R)
RP: Tom Bergmeier (L)


Manager: Tommy Lasorda

Yomiuri Giants

Manager: Jim Leyland

Position Players​

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Shark Tank​

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Lineup​

C: Joe Mauer | SP1: Tom Seaver (R) | 1. Ichiro (L)
1B: Albert Pujols | SP2: Fergie Jenkins (R) | 2. Pop Lloyd (L)
2B: Nellie Fox | SP3: Johan Santana (L) | 3. Willie Mays (R)
3B: Paul Molitor | SP4: Masaichi Kaneda (L) | 4. Albert Pujols (R)
SS: Pop Lloyd | SP5: David Cone (R) | 5. Willie Stargell (L)
LF: Willie Stargell | Swing: Bucky Walters (R) | 6. Paul Molitor (R)
CF: Willie Mays | Mid/LOOGY: Steve Kline (L) | 7. Joe Mauer (L)
RF: Ichiro | Mid: Steve Howe (L) | 8. Nellie Fox (L)
Bench: Joe Torre C/1B/3B (R) | Mid: Mark Melancon (R) | 9. Pitcher
Bench: Larry Doby OF (L) | SetupR: Johnathan Papelbon (R)
Bench: Hanley Ramirez SS/1B/LF/3B (R) | SetupL: John Franco (L)
Bench: Sherry Magee OF/1B (R) | Closer: Kent Tekulve (R)
Bench: Isao Harimoto OF (L) |

Click to read more...

 

[Winger for Hire]

David Cone will be moving to the pen for this series. No platoons for the Giants to report. Leyland won't hesitate to use Tekeulve outside of the 9th, should a high leverage situation arise earlier, and for more than 3 outs.

I would also like to present the following stats vs RHP:

Stargell- .294/.376/.559/.935
Mauer- .319/.407/.478/.885

 

[bluesfan94]

I really like the outfield of the Giants, I think they have the edge here, although that's not to be disparaging of the Yankees outfield.

I think the infields are pretty much a wash. Mays/Pujols/Stargell is a real solid 3/4/5, especially given the splits.

The front end of the Yankees rotation is dominant though, and I say that being a big fan of Jenkins as a 2 on the Giants.

Both bullpens are solid to me.

Owners are welcome to make a case.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I think having some very good lefties on my staff will really help neutralize Eddie Matthews

Matthews vs LHP- .231/.331/.409/.740

And having a left handed closer will limit the Yankees being able to consistently matchup Stargell and Mauer, because Molitor between them makes it very risky to keep a LHP in against him (.322/.391/.479/.870). So it should be difficult to neutralize those two during a game and damn near impossible to shut them down for a series.

And if it comes to it, Magee is perfectly capable to come in late in the game to take away that left on left matchup vs Stargell.

I will also not be afraid to break with closer protocol and allow Teke to toss earlier high leverage situations. Papelbon is perfectly capable of sliding into the closer spot if Teke needs to be deployed earlier, with Franco waiting for any high leverage lefty heavy innings (but not limited to them) with Kline and Howe able to take any earlier matchups.

 

[bluesfan94]

That is true about the lefty closer situation, although I assumed Brecheen would be dropping to the bullpen; I make that assumption for every team unless told otherwise FWIW

 

[Winger for Hire]

That is true about the lefty closer situation, although I assumed Brecheen would be dropping to the bullpen; I make that assumption for every team unless told otherwise FWIW

True, but it's not a sure thing to ask a starter to come in and be a LOOGY and risky to have him (or Bergmeier) pitch through Molitor to get to Mauer to preserve another arm. So while it's not a 100% win for my team, odds favor my lineup, if not that matchup, disrupting the matchups and options later in the game.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

Some great starting pitching by Clemens and Ol'Pete with a hint of Mussina, propelled the Yankees to a 4-2 series win vs a very good Giants team.

 

[Winger for Hire]

 

[Winger for Hire]

I bet Matthews took all my lefties deep as well...

 

[bluesfan94]

Analysis of the Giants:

Infield: Generally, I like your infield. I'm a huge Pujols fan as a rule and I think he's one of the better 1Bs in this format. I'm not sold on Joe Mauer in this format. I know he had a few good years but he didn't last as a catcher and he's really tapered off. I also think your infield is hurting for power. Neither Fox, Lloyd, or Mauer are going to offer power. Molitor doesn't really either. Which is fine, if you make up for it in other positions, but I'm not entirely sold on that. Fox also doesn't offer much in terms of speed. I get that he's hard to strike out and a good defender, but he leaves me wanting a little more. I LOVE Pop Lloyd. While he doesn't have HR power, he's good for getting on base, stealing bases, and playing phenomenal defense. All in all, I think your infield is good, but not great.

Outfield: Like your infield, I think your outfield is fairly strong. Stargell provides power, but I expect some power out of COF. He doesn't run much at all, though. Obviously Mays is Mays. He's 5 tools and elite at all five. Ichiro provides speed but not much power. He's essentially another Pop Lloyd but in right field. That's not a bad thing, however.

Bench: It's a short bench and you don't have a backup 2B listed. I think Molitor can move to second. But I think having a short bench hurts. You aren't going to use Torre that much cause you can't waste a backup catcher.

Overall lineup: You should be a bunch of hard outs, which is good. You have three solid home run hitters, but outside of that, there's a lack of power. Similarly, you have three good runners, but outside of that, not much speed. Defensively, you're realllllly good up the middle and to the right. Molitor and Stargell I'm not sold on. I don't know much about mauer defensively, but I assume he's middle of the road. The hard part with him is dealing with his transition.

tl;dr: I think your lineup is balanced but there's a bunch of meh hitters in Mauer/Molitor/Fox.

Rotation: We've already discussed Kaneda and my opinion on him. That said, I considered him a strong #4 in this setting. Seaver and Jenkins are good pitchers, but neither screams elite at that rotation spot. Santana is hard to judge. High peak, weak longevity but I value pitchers' peak generally, so I like him there. Cone is meh to me in this format.

Bullpen: Obviously your bullpen is deep and generally good. There's nothing that screams great except Franco, IMO.

Overall: I think your team is pretty strong. I had you ranked higher. I think you could have done better at certain spots with regards to batters. Here, you just ran into a very strong team.

 

[Winger for Hire]

You obviously ignored my team write-up and usage and place way too much emphasis on power or speed, but not balance, but thanks for the input.

I just don't agree with your way of thinking.

Also, you're high as a kite if you think Seaver isn't elite. And Johan isn't hard to judge... he's Sandy Kofaux without the Dodger aura and postseason insanity.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

I wasn't privy to the vote tallies for this league, only the results I got from UL so I can't say with any certainty how the voting shook out but ironically, I think had you been matched up to a similar balanced team rather than a pitching juggernaut in the Yanks or a lineup juggernaut in the Naps for example, maybe the matchup result shakes out differently for whatever reason.

That being said, I agree and disagree with a few of Blues' points. I disagree that Seaver is not an elite SP in this format. I think he absolutely is and I'd put him H2H with anyone. I have him somewhere in my Top 10 SPs all time, I don't recall exactly where off the top of my head, 6 or 7 maybe.

I do, however, agree with Blues on the lineup against a staff like the Yanks, probably in the eyes of some voters needed more length to it to offset some of that pitching. The matchup itself likely presented some problems in the voters' minds moreso than anything, but I have no idea not having seen who voted for who and being able to ask them why.

I thought both teams were very good for different reasons.

 

[UL Washington]

Analysis of the Giants:

Infield: Generally, I like your infield. I'm a huge Pujols fan as a rule and I think he's one of the better 1Bs in this format. I'm not sold on Joe Mauer in this format. I know he had a few good years but he didn't last as a catcher and he's really tapered off. I also think your infield is hurting for power. Neither Fox, Lloyd, or Mauer are going to offer power. Molitor doesn't really either. Which is fine, if you make up for it in other positions, but I'm not entirely sold on that. Fox also doesn't offer much in terms of speed. I get that he's hard to strike out and a good defender, but he leaves me wanting a little more. I LOVE Pop Lloyd. While he doesn't have HR power, he's good for getting on base, stealing bases, and playing phenomenal defense. All in all, I think your infield is good, but not great.

Outfield: Like your infield, I think your outfield is fairly strong. Stargell provides power, but I expect some power out of COF. He doesn't run much at all, though. Obviously Mays is Mays. He's 5 tools and elite at all five. Ichiro provides speed but not much power. He's essentially another Pop Lloyd but in right field. That's not a bad thing, however.

Bench: It's a short bench and you don't have a backup 2B listed. I think Molitor can move to second. But I think having a short bench hurts. You aren't going to use Torre that much cause you can't waste a backup catcher.

Overall lineup: You should be a bunch of hard outs, which is good. You have three solid home run hitters, but outside of that, there's a lack of power. Similarly, you have three good runners, but outside of that, not much speed. Defensively, you're realllllly good up the middle and to the right. Molitor and Stargell I'm not sold on. I don't know much about mauer defensively, but I assume he's middle of the road. The hard part with him is dealing with his transition.

tl;dr: I think your lineup is balanced but there's a bunch of meh hitters in Mauer/Molitor/Fox.

Rotation: We've already discussed Kaneda and my opinion on him. That said, I considered him a strong #4 in this setting. Seaver and Jenkins are good pitchers, but neither screams elite at that rotation spot. Santana is hard to judge. High peak, weak longevity but I value pitchers' peak generally, so I like him there. Cone is meh to me in this format.

Bullpen: Obviously your bullpen is deep and generally good. There's nothing that screams great except Franco, IMO.

Overall: I think your team is pretty strong. I had you ranked higher. I think you could have done better at certain spots with regards to batters. Here, you just ran into a very strong team.

I think this an accurate assessment. Although Seaver gets a bump up. Most people don't know much about Kaneda so he probably hurt in the voting. I like Johan but got **** when I drafted him last year so I know he's not a favourite of most voters.

The team didn't have any glaring weaknesses, but also didn't have any notable strength that made it stand out. Balanced teams don't tend to do well in the ATD.

 

[bluesfan94]

Seaver is elite, generally, don't get me wrong, but I have him behind:

Alexander
Clemens
Grove
Mathewson
Paige
W. Johnson
R. Johnson
Koufax

And equivalent to
Maddux
Gibson
Young

So he's probably 8-12 in my rankings of pitchers. In a 16 team format, that's not an elite ace.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

Seaver is elite, generally, don't get me wrong, but I have him behind:

Alexander
Clemens
Grove
Mathewson
Paige
W. Johnson
R. Johnson
Koufax

And equivalent to
Maddux
Gibson
Young

So he's probably 8-12 in my rankings of pitchers. In a 16 team format, that's not an elite ace.

They're coming for your card too now

 

[bluesfan94]

They're coming for your card too now

Hahahah. That's true, but I'm still saying Gibson is a top-10 pitcher