Player Discussion #93 - Sam Bennett

[Volica]

It's Gulutzan's fault Mangiapane was easily knocked off the puck and unimpressive in almost every way? Good to know

No. But in one case, Peters took an AHL top scorer, put him in a top 6 role and opportunity to succeed, and got the most out of his player.

In Calgary’s case, Gulutzan took one of the deadliest AHL scorers, put him in a checking role for a few minutes a night and watched him do nothing.

 

[Janks]

No. But in one case, Peters took an AHL top scorer, put him in a top 6 role and opportunity to succeed, and got the most out of his player.

In Calgary’s case, Gulutzan took one of the deadliest AHL scorers, put him in a checking role for a few minutes a night and watched him do nothing.

One of my biggest issues with Gully was forcing skilled players to play checking positions.

Like, of course Benny, Mangia, Foo etc aren't going to succeed and score tons of points playing with Stajan, Brouwer, Hathaway etc. While I agree the kids need to learn defensive responsibility, you're setting up the kids to fail.

 

[Baxterman]

No. But in one case, Peters took an AHL top scorer, put him in a top 6 role and opportunity to succeed, and got the most out of his player.

In Calgary’s case, Gulutzan took one of the deadliest AHL scorers, put him in a checking role for a few minutes a night and watched him do nothing.

Seems like you are reading a lot into 10 game samples.

Mangiapane may not have been put in the best opportunity to produce points but that doesn’t really excuse how bad he looked. He wasn’t just that he didn’t score he looked terrible at everything.

 

[Volica]

Seems like you are reading a lot into 10 game samples.

Mangiapane may not have been put in the best opportunity to produce points but that doesn’t really excuse how bad he looked. He wasn’t just that he didn’t score he looked terrible at everything.

LoL, trying to convince you is a pointless effort. But here's a try:
Fourth line looked excellent with him out there, That Mangi-Stajan-Lazar line we got for ~4/5 games show cased the kids' talents. They looked good, the fourth line had positive game impact, including out chancing and out high danger chancing their opponents.

10 Games in NHL. 100 games in the AHL and 180 games in the OHL; this guy's been an elite offensive producer at every level of the game so far. There are rarely ever players who produce at his level at 21 in a professional league that don't end up NHL regulars.

 

[Mobiandi]

Mangiapane breathed fresh air into that fourth line. At the start of his NHL stint, he was ever present, during every shift. He might have faded as it went on, but you can't blame a guy for not producing with Stajan and Brouwer. Even Hathaway, an inferior player to Mangi imo, got to play with Bennett and Jankowski

 

[super6646]

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Czarnik looks far better on paper. It fits the speed narrative and it could potentially put up some decent points.

 

[Volica]

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Czarnik looks far better on paper. It fits the speed narrative and it could potentially put up some decent points.

Has the potential to be a line that takes over from the third line at any time. Know what I mean?
Gets to get 4th lines of other teams and dominate them?

 

[Baxterman]

LoL, trying to convince you is a pointless effort. But here's a try:
Fourth line looked excellent with him out there, That Mangi-Stajan-Lazar line we got for ~4/5 games show cased the kids' talents. They looked good, the fourth line had positive game impact, including out chancing and out high danger chancing their opponents.

10 Games in NHL. 100 games in the AHL and 180 games in the OHL; this guy's been an elite offensive producer at every level of the game so far. There are rarely ever players who produce at his level at 21 in a professional league that don't end up NHL regulars.

I am not sure what exactly you are trying to convince me of but my point was saying Peters was responsible for a guy who played 10 games is a stretch. Especially when that guy already showed some talent earlier in his career and season.

As for Mangiapane, I am hopefully for him and usually have him in my mock line-ups for next year but that is based on his play in the AHL/OHL in his short time in the NHL I thought he was awful and not due to his line mates but just based on his play. It was a short sample size so I won’t hold it against him (or Gulutzan) but I certainly did not see him or his line look excellent at any point.

 

[FerklundCGY]

LoL, trying to convince you is a pointless effort. But here's a try:
Fourth line looked excellent with him out there, That Mangi-Stajan-Lazar line we got for ~4/5 games show cased the kids' talents. They looked good, the fourth line had positive game impact, including out chancing and out high danger chancing their opponents.

10 Games in NHL. 100 games in the AHL and 180 games in the OHL; this guy's been an elite offensive producer at every level of the game so far. There are rarely ever players who produce at his level at 21 in a professional league that don't end up NHL regulars.

Don't try to use any evidence and/or stats to prove Mangiapane was good in his NHL stint besides going pointless to @Baxterman .

Whatever the stats say, he believes the opposite. He thought Foo looked terrible in his 4 game stint as well lmao

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

You don’t put up numbers like Mangiapane and not at least scratch out a journeyman career. Especially not in the last few years where the AHL has clearly got more competitive.

 

[Deen]

Jankowski should be playing with Tkachuk.

 

[super6646]

Jankowski should be playing with Tkachuk.

Why? He wasn't that amazing as a #3, why would we put him as a #2 especially with the guys ahead of him?

 

[Lunatik]

No. But in one case, Peters took an AHL top scorer, put him in a top 6 role and opportunity to succeed, and got the most out of his player.

In Calgary’s case, Gulutzan took one of the deadliest AHL scorers, put him in a checking role for a few minutes a night and watched him do nothing.

The situations were very different. When Zykov was called up the Hurricanes were out of the playoff race and were playing for next season, with zero pressure. When Mangiapane was called up, it was the end of December and we were in a playoff spot.

What was Gulutzan supposed to do? Take someone out of the top 6 just to make room for Mangiapane? That would have been downright f***ing moronic.

 

[Tkachuky]

If only Bennett had Chucky's hockey IQ... He has all other tools in the shed.

Chucky-Backlund-Bennett is something I would like to try... BBC

 

[Baxterman]

Don't try to use any evidence and/or stats to prove Mangiapane was good in his NHL stint besides going pointless to @Baxterman .

Whatever the stats say, he believes the opposite. He thought Foo looked terrible in his 4 game stint as well lmao

Quality post as always.

Considering I don't care what the "numbers" say I don't believe the opposite or anything in relation to them, I believe in what actually happened.

And Foo did look terrible in his 4 games.

 

[Baxterman]

Jankowski should be playing with Tkachuk.

Why?

Jankowski had single digit assists and concentrated half his goals in 3 games. He never looked like he was snakebitten or had bad luck and his NCAA/AHL numbers don't make him likely to be a top 6 player.

The only reason to put Jankowski with Tkachuk is to hope he can pick up some free points to make him look better because based on his skill and performance in his hockey career he should be moving down the line-up not up.

 

[Volica]

The situations were very different. When Zykov was called up the Hurricanes were out of the playoff race and were playing for next season, with zero pressure. When Mangiapane was called up, it was the end of December and we were in a playoff spot.

What was Gulutzan supposed to do? Take someone out of the top 6 just to make room for Mangiapane? That would have been downright ****ing moronic.

The situations were different, but that doesn't make playing Mangipane in a top 9 role f***ing moronic, as you put it.
The Flames were struggling to score, and Gulutzan had Garnet Hathaway, playing between 10-16 minutes a night, in a third line scoring role. Meanwhile having one of the AHL's premier scorers playing a fourth line checking role.

That's what he was suppose to do, one of the worst coaches at adapting I've ever seen.

 

[Lunatik]

The situations were different, but that doesn't make playing Mangipane in a top 9 role ****ing moronic, as you put it.
The Flames were struggling to score, and Gulutzan had Garnet Hathaway, playing between 10-16 minutes a night, in a third line scoring role. Meanwhile having one of the AHL's premier scorers playing a fourth line checking role.

That's what he was suppose to do, one of the worst coaches at adapting I've ever seen.

First, I stated top 6, not top 9.

Also, Hathaway was actually playing well on the 3rd line when Mangipane was called up, 7 points in 13 games to be precise. and that was some of the best that line played all year.

But hey, why let things like facts mess with your blind hate and need to complain

 

[Volica]

First, I stated top 6, not top 9.

Also, Hathaway was actually playing well on the 3rd line when Mangipane was called up, 7 points in 13 games to be precise. and that was some of the best that line played all year.

But hey, why let things like facts mess with your blind hate and need to complain

During Andrew Mangiapane's 10 games with Calgary:
Garnet Hathaway, 0 goals, 1 assist, ~30 PIMs, +2.

But hey, why let things like facts mess your blind hate and need to defend plugs.

 

[Lunatik]

During Andrew Mangiapane's 10 games with Calgary:
Garnet Hathaway, 0 goals, 1 assist, ~30 PIMs, +2.

But hey, why let things like facts mess your blind hate and need to defend plugs.

And as I stated, he was moved up during that time and played some on the 3rd line. But you don't move guys down while they have been doing well just because you call a rookie up that's scoring in the AHL

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Man after watching Bennett's highlight reel from last year, it's amazing how snake bitten he was. Obviously the numbers tell the same story but I don't think he's gotten enough credit for how much he improved last year. He would have been closing in on 40 points with average puck luck.

I really think he's going to turn out to be a late bloomer - I expect a big year from him this upcoming season.

 

[JPeeper]

Man after watching Bennett's highlight reel from last year, it's amazing how snake bitten he was. Obviously the numbers tell the same story but I don't think he's gotten enough credit for how much he improved last year. He would have been closing in on 40 points with average puck luck.

I really think he's going to turn out to be a late bloomer - I expect a big year from him this upcoming season.

A lot had to do with Jagr. When Jagr came in his game improved a ton and they were dominate, the problem was they still never scored. Bennett could/should have had at least 15 more assists if Jagr didn't have some of the worst puck luck I have ever seen. Jags finished a Flame scoring only the lone goal yet that Bennett line with him had like 3-5 golden opportunities a night and just never finished, then when Jagr left they got Hathaway and the line was never the same.

Really hoping and in my heart believe Peters will do wonders for Bennett and put him in a position to succeed. As well as having faith in Bennett to turn it around himself.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

A lot had to do with Jagr. When Jagr came in his game improved a ton and they were dominate, the problem was they still never scored. Bennett could/should have had at least 15 more assists if Jagr didn't have some of the worst puck luck I have ever seen. Jags finished a Flame scoring only the lone goal yet that Bennett line with him had like 3-5 golden opportunities a night and just never finished, then when Jagr left they got Hathaway and the line was never the same.

Really hoping and in my heart believe Peters will do wonders for Bennett and put him in a position to succeed. As well as having faith in Bennett to turn it around himself.

I will always dream of the what if. If we had just signed Jagr in July and he had a full off season to train, would he have stayed healthy? Would he have helped mentor Sam to another level? Would our PP have been better?

 

[SaintMorose]

I think you gotta look at how long it took Backlund with a similar 'tenacious on the puck' game to put it together and get 47 points in his 26 year old season.
I continue to believe Bennett's gonna be similar with more offensive focus (never as good defensively) and put his finished game together a little faster this is his 22 year old season and I think it's his 23/24 when we'll know what he is.

 

[The Gnome]

I don't expect a blowup, but I do expect to see moderate gains, I imagine he pots 45ish points this year. I'd be more surprised if he didn't do that.