Post-Game Talk: #9: Avalanche 4 at FLYERS 1, Monday, Oct. 22, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[sa cyred]

I fully believe that if we changed the system from a shell/defensive system that doesn't push for aggressiveness to even a more balanced approach, we would see some difference. The shell/defensive system is causing one of the worse defensive teams in the league. So not only are we neutering the offense, but the defense is still getting destroyed.

 

[Jtown]

There are injuries that you can play through (see Simmonds) but your play can be substandard.
This is where depth matters, next year with Frost and Rubtsov up, and Patrick ready for the #1 role, they might have sat Couts for the first month.

there is a huge freaking difference between "playing" vs " leading the nhl in toi"

i saw forsberg play with one foot, i sure as hell didn't see him lead the nhl in ice time.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I’m still confused if Hakstol is allowed to respond to reporters’ questions honestly without naming names or not?

Those criticizing Hakstol for saying they had a forward out of position on the PK probably also would support the hiring of Tortorella or Laviolette, who single players out to the media fairly often.

 

[renberg]

I fully believe that if we changed the system from a shell/defensive system that doesn't push for aggressiveness to even a more balanced approach, we would see some difference. The shell/defensive system is causing one of the worse defensive teams in the league. So not only are we neutering the offense, but the defense is still getting destroyed.

This is basically true but how do you scheme when you are playing goalies like Elliott and Pickard? If a coach pulls back into a shell system, the team won't score and with these guys in goal, they still will give up goals. Get aggressive and these goalies will be let out to dry allowing six or more tallies against.
It all starts in goal which Hextall knows very well. That he has allowed this goalie situation to happen is a shame. A trade should have been made a while ago to prevent this grease fire from happening. Hart, Sandstrom to whoever is still two years away from taking over as the #1 goalie in town. Do we have to put up with crap in the nets until then?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I’ve decided I would not re-sign Simmonds. He’s just too ineffective at ES to justify the contract he’s going to require.

 

[David St Hubbins]

I fully believe that if we changed the system from a shell/defensive system that doesn't push for aggressiveness to even a more balanced approach, we would see some difference. The shell/defensive system is causing one of the worse defensive teams in the league. So not only are we neutering the offense, but the defense is still getting destroyed.

so you are suggesting that playing a passive system in your own zone not only reduces offensive production but provides more opportunities to have your sub-par goaltending and suspect defensemen exploited? I'll have to ponder that.

 

[Curufinwe]

This is basically true but how do you scheme when you are playing goalies like Elliott and Pickard? If a coach pulls back into a shell system, the team won't score and with these guys in goal, they still will give up goals. Get aggressive and these goalies will be let out to dry allowing six or more tallies against.
It all starts in goal which Hextall knows very well. That he has allowed this goalie situation to happen is a shame. A trade should have been made a while ago to prevent this grease fire from happening. Hart, Sandstrom to whoever is still two years away from taking over as the #1 goalie in town. Do we have to put up with crap in the nets until then?

You should read Appleyard’s posts about recent Flyers goalies. They all do decent to fine at ES, but somehow their SH SV% ends up in the tank once they start wearing orange and black. There isn’t a goalie in the league who can compensate for Lappy’s penalty kill.

 

[Jtown]

I’ve decided I would not re-sign Simmonds. He’s just too ineffective at ES to justify the contract he’s going to require.

i do hope he gets a good contract however. he got paid pennies for his production during his prime. I hope a team gives him a 5 year 30 million dollar deal. Love simmer but i do think it is time to move on.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Away from Raffl they haven't... their numbers drop down to just as bad as previous years really.

I think we have seen from Raffl's career it is basically impossible to have bad numbers playing with him at 5v5, because he is one of the best defensive wingers in the NHL and is a great forechecker to boot.

Raffl should be the team mascot.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i remember reading the same thing when berube was coach . and i guarantee you i will read the same thing when our next coach is hired.

as long as they continue to hire non quailified staff you are correct..

 

[David St Hubbins]

Raffl should be the team mascot.

Not cool. Jake's brother needs to keep the gig.

 

[deadhead]

You should read Appleyard’s posts about recent Flyers goalies. They all do decent to fine at ES, but somehow their SH SV% ends up in the tank once they start wearing orange and black. There isn’t a goalie in the league who can compensate for Lappy’s penalty kill.

Actually, Mason and Neuvirth had only a slight decline on the PK when they came here, Elliott's numbers cratered here.
So "chicken and egg," is it the PK or the goalie?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I fully believe that if we changed the system from a shell/defensive system that doesn't push for aggressiveness to even a more balanced approach, we would see some difference. The shell/defensive system is causing one of the worse defensive teams in the league. So not only are we neutering the offense, but the defense is still getting destroyed.

I have no idea what you’re watching. Do you think the Flyers are sitting back in a Guy Boucher trap?

Last night they were a bit more conservative in the neutral zone because they were at such a speed disadvantage, but generally the Flyers forecheck pretty damn aggressively. They actually had to tone it back a year ago because it was too aggressive & they were getting beat.

And I sure don’t see Ghost or Provorov being restrained. If anything they’re trying to do too much.

I think you’re trying to find a simple explanation for the team’s struggles, and “system” often seems like a catch-all, but I sure don’t think a lack of systematic aggressiveness is the problem. In fact, as they showed several times this season, I think they’re at their worst when individuals are trying too hard to push the play when nothing is there.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually, Mason and Neuvirth had only a slight decline on the PK when they came here, Elliott's numbers cratered here.
So "chicken and egg," is it the PK or the goalie?

It's the PK.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

I’m still confused if Hakstol is allowed to respond to reporters’ questions honestly without naming names or not?

Those criticizing Hakstol for saying they had a forward out of position on the PK probably also would support the hiring of Tortorella or Laviolette, who single players out to the media fairly often.

The point is he criticizes Couturier who is one of his better players who rarely makes mistakes along with Ghost and Konecny. Then he lets guys like MacDonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera and Weise suck for games on end without benching them or criticizing them through the media. In fact he goes out of his way to praise them no matter how terribly they play. And yes he has other options to play instead of them, he always has.

And on top of that he is arguably the worst coach in the entire league and has no room to criticize anyone when he has been a horrible coach through 3+ seasons.

 

[FlyersMania2]

The point is he criticizes Couturier who is one of his better players who rarely makes mistakes along with Ghost and Konecny. Then he lets guys like MacDonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera and Weise suck for games on end without benching them or criticizing them through the media. In fact he goes out of his way to praise them no matter how terribly they play. And yes he has other options to play instead of them, he always has.

And on top of that he is arguably the worst coach in the entire league and has no room to criticize anyone when he has been a horrible coach through 3+ seasons.

The very simple point of Konecny's leash vs Lehtera's leash should be enough for people to realize how ridiculous this coach is but they don't.

 

[hatcher]

I have no idea what you’re watching. Do you think the Flyers are sitting back in a Guy Boucher trap?

Last night they were a bit more conservative in the neutral zone because they were at such a speed disadvantage, but generally the Flyers forecheck pretty damn aggressively. They actually had to tone it back a year ago because it was too aggressive & they were getting beat.

And I sure don’t see Ghost or Provorov being restrained. If anything they’re trying to do too much.

I think you’re trying to find a simple explanation for the team’s struggles, and “system” often seems like a catch-all, but I sure don’t think a lack of systematic aggressiveness is the problem. In fact, as they showed several times this season, I think they’re at their worst when individuals are trying too hard to push the play when nothing is there.

Orange Kool aid anyone. Flyers aren't good and the players can't execute shit.

 

[renberg]

You should read Appleyard’s posts about recent Flyers goalies. They all do decent to fine at ES, but somehow their SH SV% ends up in the tank once they start wearing orange and black. There isn’t a goalie in the league who can compensate for Lappy’s penalty kill.

I did read Appleyard's post. However I believe that there's more to the PK than the goalie. The defensemen haven't been the best and that matters as well and so does the PK scheme being used. Lappy should have been let go/reassigned seasons ago. He's a nice guy so put him back where he was before he was made and asst coach. His passive PK scheme doesn't work in this day where speed matters so much. On the PK, defensive pressure is the thing now days that is used to counter opponent's speed and the Flyers don't do that. I get it that the Flyers D-men in recent years haven't been the quickest guys on the ice. (actually they have been pretty ******. Streit, MDZ, Manning, etc were really bad here.) However that's where coaching decisions come into play. If the defensemen are too slow, play three forwards and a defenseman instead of two and two. But pressure the opponent.

 

[deadhead]

The point is he criticizes Couturier who is one of his better players who rarely makes mistakes along with Ghost and Konecny. Then he lets guys like MacDonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera and Weise suck for games on end without benching them or criticizing them through the media. In fact he goes out of his way to praise them no matter how terribly they play. And yes he has other options to play instead of them, he always has.

A lot of coaches do this, the top players are the leaders and are held to a higher standard, but it's also a way to get a message to the team without setting up lesser players for abuse - fans aren't going to jump all over Giroux or Couts if they're singled out, but will on other players. And lesser players are more likely to struggle with confidence for obvious reasons, so you don't want to beat them down further.

With Weal, it was just exasperation, I'm sure he had a talk with Weal after he drew three cheap penalties, then he goes out and does it again in the first five minutes, leading to a PK goal. I'd want to strangle him if I were Hakstol.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The point is he criticizes Couturier who is one of his better players who rarely makes mistakes along with Ghost and Konecny. Then he lets guys like MacDonald, Hagg, Manning, Lehtera and Weise suck for games on end without benching them or criticizing them through the media. In fact he goes out of his way to praise them no matter how terribly they play. And yes he has other options to play instead of them, he always has.

And on top of that he is arguably the worst coach in the entire league and has no room to criticize anyone when he has been a horrible coach through 3+ seasons.

Still confused. Are you saying that if Hakstol is asked a question about a goal against he should avoid explaining what caused the goal?

 

[admiralcadillac]

What's up with provorov? I thought he'd have a great year

 

[hatcher]

T

What's up with provorov? I thought he'd have a great year

eams are rerally going after him now unlike the last two seasons and hes having trouble. No room means the smart play and turning it up a notch physically and he isnt doing it yet.

 

[David St Hubbins]

What's up with provorov? I thought he'd have a great year

One might ask if the coaching is negatively impacting his development, although I have been assured that this is not the case with any of the young players/prospects.

 

[1865]

ok. at what point should we become concerned about his production?

Longer. Let's not forget he's coming off a pretty bad injury in pre-season too.

 

[1865]

After Stevens we got lavi

The pre-Hak is a halcyon paradise in the back of my mind right now.