88-89 Habs Defensive Unit

[JianYang]

I was just looking through the habs roster particularly on defense, and I'm struck by both the quality and depth they had at the blue line at this point in time. Certainly, I've never seen anything close to this quality of depth since I began to following the club, and I wonder how this unit stacks up with other clubs in terms of depth.

Here's a brief look at what they had at the time.

Chris Chelios

Petr Svoboda

Larry Robinson

Craig Ludwig

Rick Green

Eric Desjardins

Jyrki Lumme

Matthew Schneider: He actually did not play in this season, but he did get his feet wet in the previous one.

Lyle Odelein got games in the following season, and they just drafted Brisebois that summer.

Green and Robinson were just at the end, and green was nothing special, but he still got an 800 plus game career in.

The other guys went on to have quite long nhl careers, with all of them playing 1st and 2nd pairing duties, or key special teams roles.

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[The Panther]

Yeah, they were awesome defensively... and then you've got Patrick Roy in net!

The whole Canadiens' team in the 1980s was built for defense. Maybe a bit of a slip there c.1983 to 1985, which, not coincidentally, coincides with their fall in the standings.

The 1981-82 Canadiens were probably the equal of the 1988-89 Habs' defence. It's funny, because 1981-82 is the highest-scoring season in modern NHL history, but somebody forgot to tell Montreal. Their 223 goals against would have placed them (factoring in lack of overtime back then) around the middle of the Eastern Conference last season and the upper half of the Western Conference in 2019, defensively. The D-core consisted of Robinson, Langway, Engblom, Picard, Delorme, and for half seasons or so Lapointe and Gingras. Considering that nobody played 80 games, I have to think those top three or four guys ate up a lot of ice-time.... More impressively, they had Wamsley, Herron, and Sevigny in net, none of which is a name that's well remembered today. Their D-core must have been awesome.

But 1988-89 was just as good.

 

[Talisman]

as from Finland. im surprised that jyrki lumme was part of the canadiens durin their cup run.

 

[Staniowski]

I was just looking through the habs roster particularly on defense, and I'm struck by both the quality and depth they had at the blue line at this point in time. Certainly, I've never seen anything close to this quality of depth since I began to following the club, and I wonder how this unit stacks up with other clubs in terms of depth.

Here's a brief look at what they had at the time.

Chris Chelios

Petr Svoboda

Larry Robinson

Craig Ludwig

Rick Green

Eric Desjardins

Jyrki Lumme

Matthew Schneider: He actually did not play in this season, but he did get his feet wet in the previous one.

Lyle Odelein got games in the following season, and they just drafted Brisebois that summer.

Green and Robinson were just at the end, and green was nothing special, but he still got an 800 plus game career in.

The other guys went on to have quite long nhl careers, with all of them playing 1st and 2nd pairing duties, or key special teams roles.

Rick Green was a very good defenseman. He was an important player for the Habs after they acquired him in the Langway trade, and was a good enough player to play for Canada in 4 WCs and also the NHL all-stars in Rendez-Vous '87. An underrated guy.
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There was also Sylvain Lefebvre, who was in the organization and joined the team the following year.

So, in addition to Robinson and Green, you have these 8 relatively young defensemen:
Chelios
Desjardins
Schneider
Lumme
Ludwig
Lefebvre
Svoboda
Odelein

The Habs would go on to trade all of them.

If you're looking at them in 1989, all 8 would go on to play at least another decade, including Desjardins another 15 years, and Chelios and Schneider another 20 years.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Perhaps not especially relevant but they also had recently traded both Ric Nattress and Tom Kurvers. So the Habs D really was an embarrassment of riches from the early 70s to mid-90s.

 

[vikash1987]

The Canadiens’ blueline was stacked. Their model of building their teams on goaltending and defense was followed by New Jersey and Dallas in later years (which was no surprise, given the overlap in so many personnel)

 

[JianYang]

as from Finland. im surprised that jyrki lumme was part of the canadiens durin their cup run.

He's one of those guys that I often forget about as a canadiens player. I don't think he was actually part of the cup run, but he did play a chunk of games in that season.

 

[Theokritos]

I don't think he was actually part of the cup run, but he did play a chunk of games in that season.

Seems like he was called up from the AHL in late November 1988 and sent back there in February 1989. See game logs on Hockey Reference.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

the Habs D really was an embarrassment of riches from the early 70s to mid-90s.

Exactly this, there wasn't a day during this period that they didn't have elite defenders & more coming up through the ranks. Even blowing up their post-Dynasty All-Star d-core (Lapointe, Savard, Langway, Engblom) they retained Robinson, brought in Green, and had Chelios, Svoboda. Ludwig & Kurvers all in the lineup full-time within a couple of seasons.

I remember the 79 playoffs and how well Langway and Engblom just stepped right up and played as well as Robinson-Savard in the Finals, and how Chelios pretty much did the same thing when he joined the Habs after the Olympics in 84, pretty much being a dominant force on the blueline from the get-go.

 

[tony d]

Quite the defense group for sure. People know Chelios mainly as a Blackhawk but he did have some good yrs. with Montreal in the 80's.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Insert Canadiens1958 post here.

 

[Staniowski]

Quite the defense group for sure. People know Chelios mainly as a Blackhawk but he did have some good yrs. with Montreal in the 80's.

Yes, he had a great several years in Montreal, starting at the end of the '83-'84 season. He was a great breath of fresh air for the Canadiens in the '84 playoffs.

He then played very well in the '84 Canada Cup (they had a very good group of defensemen, with Chelios, Ramsey, Langway, Housley, etc.).

 

[Staniowski]

Exactly this, there wasn't a day during this period that they didn't have elite defenders & more coming up through the ranks. Even blowing up their post-Dynasty All-Star d-core (Lapointe, Savard, Langway, Engblom) they retained Robinson, brought in Green, and had Chelios, Svoboda. Ludwig & Kurvers all in the lineup full-time within a couple of seasons.

I remember the 79 playoffs and how well Langway and Engblom just stepped right up and played as well as Robinson-Savard in the Finals, and how Chelios pretty much did the same thing when he joined the Habs after the Olympics in 84, pretty much being a dominant force on the blueline from the get-go.

Yeah, the young Langway really looked good in those games he played in the '79 playoffs. Langway and his pretty unique-looking style.

 

[EpochLink]

Quite the defense group for sure. People know Chelios mainly as a Blackhawk but he did have some good yrs. with Montreal in the 80's.

I remember Chelios with the Habs back in the mid to late 80's.
He was always up on the play or making good hits/checks.

The Habs of that era for me was Naslund, Chelios, Smith, Robinson, Courtnall, etc

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Green and Robinson were just at the end, and green was nothing special, but he still got an 800 plus game career in.

tbh i’d consider green’s career better than lumme’s, svoboda’s, and odelein’s. he was a very important part of that 80s habs team that won thirteen playoff series in six years and never lost in the first round.

he was overshadowed by robinson, later chelios, maybe even ludwig because at least ludwig had shotblocking. and of course, he probably wasn’t appreciated enough for what he was because he wasn’t langway.

green was just a big reliable and totally unnoticeable (in a good way) defence-only willie mitchell type. i have green on the lower end of the morrow, ramsey, foote group of stay at home guys. shame he wasted almost half his career on the caps.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

one guy not mentioned yet is sean hill, who the habs drafted in 1988.

that team was so deep on d they flat out gave away lumme, lefebvre, and diduck for nothing and still won the cup in 93.

they got a second, third, and fourth round pick, respectively, for those guys, none of which would pan out or contribute directly to the 93 run (if we’re going to be totally exact, the guy drafted with the fourth was a throw in/sweetener in the corson for damphousse trade).

meanwhile, that’s vancouver best two defencemen in the first half of the 90s, punctuated by a one goal loss in game seven of the finals. and lefebvre was a rock on back to back conference finalist leafs teams, then peaked as one of the best defensive guys in the league on the powerhouse avs team that won a cup and made two other conference finals—he was in the campbell’s/western conference finals five out of the seven years after the habs gave him away... a year they won the frickin’ cup anyway.

quoting myself—

you kind of have to go back and look at the amazing system the habs had in the few years between the last hurrah of the '80s group in the '89 finals run and the 1993 cup team...

desjardins was hands down the best young player. but the blueline also had sylvain lefebvre, mathieu schneider, lyle odelein, with j.j. daigneault as the old man (24 in 1990, 27 when they won the cup).

up front, leclair was the one who turned out to be a star and andrew cassels was a longtime skill guy, but such good role players: mike keane, brent gilchrist, jocelyn lemieux, benoit brunet, and tom chorske. paul dipietro and gilbert dionne had their moments, stephan lebeau looked like more than that at times. craig conroy was a long ways away but he was in the system too.

in the 1990 season, jyrki lumme (23 years old) was still there. in '91, gerald diduck (25). and in '92, petr svoboda (25).

brisebois was drafted in 1989, turner stevenson in 1990. sean hill was in the system and nobody remembers this but he actually dressed for a few games in the '93 cup run.

it was one of the amazing quick rebuilds in history. the 1989 team had svoboda and entering his prime chelios, with desjardins getting his feet wet, but was also old guys: robinson, rick green, ludwig.

up front, there was a young group and a veteran group. of the vet group only carbonneau was retained, and naslund, smith, ryan walter, mike mcphee were all replaced. and the young group was also basically turned completely over, and i think we forget just how young those guys were: in 1991, when desjardins established himself as an everyday roster player, richer and corson were 24, courtnall was 25. claude lemieux, who had been traded the summer before, was also 25. hell, patrick roy was 25.

i remember all this well because in '91, there were a lot of habs pro set rookie cards. keane, lebeau, and schneider in the lower set, and more dramatically jc bergeron, cassels, chorske, odelein, mark pederson, daigneault, desjardins, donald dufresne, todd ewen, gilchrist, and lefebvre in the mid-season set. Pro Set 1990-91 Hockey Card Checklist at hockeydb.com the only guys i knew were desjardins, who by midseason had some juice as an emerging young defenseman, and schneider, who i have this weird foggy memory of getting slashed or hit by the puck in the face that season and going end to end to score a goal with blood dripping down his face. and i thought to myself, this team that recently was in the finals with richer, courtnall, corson, and carbonneau, plus denis savard, now is adding all those young guys? they'll be unstoppable.

and then by 1993, richer, courtnall, and corson were upgraded for muller, bellows, and damphousse, and basically only roy and carbonneau from the '89 team, with new stars and that amazing push from below won the cup.

look at how that team survived disastrously giving away chelios and claude lemieux. and just look at all the young guys they ended up discarding: lefebvre, lumme, diduck, svoboda, chorske, jocelyn lemieux, those guys all eventually were useful contributors to stanley cup finalists in the '90s, and the first three defensemen were much more than that to their teams. what an embarrassment of riches, what a scouting department and developmental system.

 

[The Panther]

R
So, in addition to Robinson and Green, you have these 8 relatively young defensemen:
Chelios
Desjardins
Schneider
Lumme
Ludwig
Lefebvre
Svoboda
Odelein

The Habs would go on to trade all of them.

Man, that is absolutely insane. What the hell were they thinking trading Lefebvre, who was clearly an up and comer? Or Desjardins (though at least they got a Cup and some good seasons out of him)? Or Schneider, who was 25 when they traded him? Or, Chelios, in general? Or years before that, Langway (and Engblom), who went on to win back-to-back Norrises?

 

[JianYang]

1989 also marked the beginning of the end in terms of the defensive pipeline.

There were only 3 quality hits in the 90s, after drafting brisebois in 1989.

Rivet in 92
Robidas in 95
Markov in 98

 

[JianYang]

Man, that is absolutely insane. What the hell were they thinking trading Lefebvre, who was clearly an up and comer? Or Desjardins (though at least they got a Cup and some good seasons out of him)? Or Schneider, who was 25 when they traded him? Or, Chelios, in general? Or years before that, Langway (and Engblom), who went on to win back-to-back Norrises?

I'm not sure if the habs wanted to part with langway, but from what I've read, langway had asked for the move, and he wasn't a fan of the tax structure in Montreal. I think he was one of those Americans who just preferred to play in America.

Desjardins was not a guy that they wanted to part with as far as I know. But they went after a guy like recchi, and he wasn't going to come cheap. However, this turned out to be a massive overpayment because Desjardins was a top pairing guy for several years to come, and they also added Leclair to the deal who exploded in Philly.

I've heard a few theories on Chelios. Whether it was an accumulation of off ice shenanigans, or the staff thinking his knee wasn't going to last much longer, but the one I believe the most is that they simply couldn't resist from going after the flashy French Canadian star, at a time that they were lacking that flare. Obviously, it was a bad trade, and even though Savard won a cup, he wasn't a huge factor in it.

As for schneider, the popular theory is that he made enemies with the wrong guy (Patrick Roy), due to some serious off ice issues. I won't go in detail because the allegation is pretty serious. So he had to be shipped.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

I'm not sure if the habs wanted to part with langway, but from what I've read, langway had asked for the move, and he wasn't a fan of the tax structure in Montreal. I think he was one of those Americans who just preferred to play in America.

Yeah, from what I recall at the time Langway wanted (and deserved) a big raise & a long-term contract, but the Habs were paying him in Canadian dollars, & he wanted a contract in American dollars to help offset the dismal exchange rate & the additional taxation, but the Habs couldn't meet his demands, so he asked to be traded. I always wondered what would have happened had the Habs ponied up for Langway: they most likely would've had to ship out Robinson.

 

[JianYang]

Yeah, from what I recall at the time Langway wanted (and deserved) a big raise & a long-term contract, but the Habs were paying him in Canadian dollars, & he wanted a contract in American dollars to help offset the dismal exchange rate & the additional taxation, but the Habs couldn't meet his demands, so he asked to be traded. I always wondered what would have happened had the Habs ponied up for Langway: they most likely would've had to ship out Robinson.

Now that's something I didn't know, that he was being paid in Canadian dollars. I'm not sure if that was just standard policy at the time.

I recall some players being paid in Canadian currency in the 90s, but it wasn't common. I'm not sure about the 80s.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

everyday players

chris chelios: 1,651 games
larry robinson: 1,384 games
craig ludwig: 1,256 games
petr svoboda: 1,028 games
rick green: 845 games

sometimes players

eric desjardins: 1,143 games
donald dufresne: 268 games

call up

jyrki lumme: 985 games

on the farm

lyle odelein: 1,056 games
sylvain lefebvre: 945 games
jj daigneault: 899 games
stephane richer: 27 games
luc gauthier: 3 games

in juniors

mathieu schneider: 1,289 games
eric charron: 130 games

in europe

peter popovich: 485 games

in college

sean hill: 876 games
kevin dahl: 188 games
todd richards: 8 games, 484 as coach

there can’t possibly be more NHL games played in one franchise’s system all at the same time, can there?

edit: and if you count playoff games, forget about it. ten of those guys hit 100 playoff games, including #s 1 and 4 all time, with 500 playoff games between them.

 

[FerrisRox]

Green and Robinson were just at the end, and green was nothing special, but he still got an 800 plus game career in.

Green was nothing special? Rick Green was an excellent defensemen and a huge part of the Habs success in the 1980's.

 

[FerrisRox]

1989 also marked the beginning of the end in terms of the defensive pipeline.

There were only 3 quality hits in the 90s, after drafting brisebois in 1989.

Rivet in 92
Robidas in 95
Markov in 98

The Canadiens also drafted Francois Beauchemin in 1998 who had an outstanding career.

 

[BenchBrawl]

1989 also marked the beginning of the end in terms of the defensive pipeline.

There were only 3 quality hits in the 90s, after drafting brisebois in 1989.

Rivet in 92
Robidas in 95
Markov in 98

Markov was drafted as a center I believe.