84 canada cup

[VMBM]

i recall canadas number 1 line was gilbert perrault at centre with gretzky on left wing and guy lafluer on right wing till perrault got hurt this line was crushing the opposition

That line with Dionne as Perreault's replacement (though as a LW, not center) was still devastating in the round robin game versus USSR (7-3 win). In fact, that is about the only international game (out of approx. 15) I've seen where Marcel Dionne looks as good as his NHL numbers would have you believe. Unfortunately, the whole trio laid an egg in the final.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

I've seen only the semi-final game against the Russians, but there I can hardly even remember Peter Stastny; did he play mutch? (have to watch the game again sometime)

I remember him not having a very good series. I always wondered, that when push came to shove, his heart just wasn't in it. When he played for Slovakia in the 1994 Olympics well past his prime, he was considerably better.

 

[ekcut]

87 Canada Cup.

Gretzky and Lemiuex...both in their primes. Add 18 other scrubs and thus team would still be amazing.
Add Messier, Coffey, Bourque, Hawerchuk among others and this team is the best team anywhere to ever hit the ice.
It COULD of been even better though as there were some notable players missing.

/Thread

 

[Scott1980]

I've seen only the semi-final game against the Russians, but there I can hardly even remember Peter Stastny; did he play mutch? (have to watch the game again sometime)

Lucky you! This is the only Canada Cup that I've never seen one game of! I even got about 5 games from '81 and watched all of them from '91 and '96.

What I'd do for that semi-final game!

 

[Zine]

87 Canada Cup.

Gretzky and Lemiuex...both in their primes. Add 18 other scrubs and thus team would still be amazing.
Add Messier, Coffey, Bourque, Hawerchuk among others and this team is the best team anywhere to ever hit the ice.
It COULD of been even better though as there were some notable players missing.

/Thread

Remember though, every game '87 Canada played was relatively close. In addition, they could barely beat a sub-par Soviet squad (relative to other Soviet teams of course).

'87 Soviets had no depth (especially on defense) and minor league goaltending, yet, for all intents and purposes, was every bit as good as Canada for the 4 games they played.

Despite being shut-out by the Czechs, 1976 was best Canadian team imo.
Based on performance, I'd say 1979 Soviets were the best international team ever.......at least in modern history.

 

[redbull]

In a perfect world, using IIHF eligibility rules, Trots takes Sutter's spot and D.Savard takes Stastny's. Ironically, Sutter had a better year in 84-85 than Trots, but that took alot of people by suprise. Some bad mojo on Trots that season.

He had a better year, statistically.

those blips on tonelli's and sutter's stats are not unlike the one bernie nicholls enjoyed in the late 80s.
I love brent sutter but he was never close to trottier, not in that year or any other.
---
I'm with ekcut about the 87 team. They won, doesn't matter if it was close. Teams don't play to dominate and outscore teams by 10. The best teams play as well as they can, to win, not more. Any team with 99 and 66 MUST BE considered among the best ever, in any era.

 

[Zine]

He had a better year, statistically.

those blips on tonelli's and sutter's stats are not unlike the one bernie nicholls enjoyed in the late 80s.
I love brent sutter but he was never close to trottier, not in that year or any other.
---
I'm with ekcut about the 87 team. They won, doesn't matter if it was close. Teams don't play to dominate and outscore teams by 10. The best teams play as well as they can, to win, not more. Any team with 99 and 66 MUST BE considered among the best ever, in any era.

Right, but when discussing the best teams in history merely 'winning' isn't enough......winning is the basic minimum that will get a team in the discussion.
The next logical step for criteria is to look at relative of dominance, level of competition, etc. etc.

 

[saskganesh]

trottier played for the us thru a loophole

he held a north american indian status card and was in essence a dual citizen

not a loophole. it was a feature.

article III of the Jay Treaty 1794 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Treaty#Treaty_terms

 

[VMBM]

Remember though, every game '87 Canada played was relatively close. In addition, they could barely beat a sub-par Soviet squad (relative to other Soviet teams of course).

'87 Soviets had no depth (especially on defense) and minor league goaltending, yet, for all intents and purposes, was every bit as good as Canada for the 4 games they played.

I know I have sometimes belittled them myself, but I think you're trying too hard to make them sound worse than they actually were; I'd take the 1987 Soviets over the 1972 squad, for instance, any day of the week - not on paper, but based on their performances. The 1978/79, 1981-83 teams are of course a different matter.

The team was definitely imbalanced, but having KLM and Khomutov-Bykov-Kamensky as your top and 2nd line is not too shabby, and I think, along with the obvious Fetisov and Kasatonov, Gusarov was a quite good young dman too; I don't remember how 31-year old Pervukhin performed, but he was also a 'name' on that team anyway...

 

[Zine]

I know I have sometimes belittled them myself, but I think you're trying too hard to make them sound worse than they actually were; I'd take the 1987 Soviets over the 1972 squad, for instance, any day of the week - not on paper, but based on their performances. The 1978/79, 1981-83 teams are of course a different matter.

The team was definitely imbalanced, but having KLM and Khomutov-Bykov-Kamensky as your top and 2nd line is not too shabby, and I think, along with the obvious Fetisov and Kasatonov, Gusarov was a quite good young dman too; I don't remember how 31-year old Pervukhin performed, but he was also a 'name' on that team anyway...

I'd say they were only better than the Kulagin led teams of mid-1970s (which, ironically, was extremely strong on paper but in disarray). 1987 team also lost the WCs, and lost to Sweden in CC prelims. They did, however, play great at Rendez-vous '87.

Ultimately, despite a paper thin roster, performance wise I rank them low because of goaltending. Unlike previous teams (with Tretiak) this squad never had a goalie that could make 'key saves' in big games.

It wasn't Gretzky/Lemieux that beat them in 1987......it was Fuhr's ability to make that timely save while Mylnikov/Belosheikin couldn't.

 

[crobro]

not a loophole. it was a feature.

article III of the Jay Treaty 1794 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Treaty#Treaty_terms

no offense thanks for clarifying.

 

[VMBM]

I'd say they were only better than the Kulagin led teams of mid-1970s (which, ironically, was extremely strong on paper but in disarray). 1987 team also lost the WCs, and lost to Sweden in CC prelims. They did, however, play great at Rendez-vous '87.

Ultimately, despite a paper thin roster, performance wise I rank them low because of goaltending. Unlike previous teams (with Tretiak) this squad never had a goalie that could make 'key saves' in big games.

It wasn't Gretzky/Lemieux that beat them in 1987......it was Fuhr's ability to make that timely save while Mylnikov/Belosheikin couldn't.

Yes, they lost the WCs... without losing a game in the tourament (two ties in the medal round). Sure, they knew how the system worked, so they should have won also 'the right games', but anyway...

I don't think there are many Soviet teams in history that had as good top and 2nd forward lines as the 1987 squad. And it's not like the Soviets often had very good/consistent 3rd and/or 4th lines anyway - except in the late '70s/early '80s.

BTW, which Team Canada was better, the 1972 squad or the 1987 one? The 1972 team, after getting in shape and becoming more of a team, battled evenly with the Soviets and won the last 3 games on Team USSR's home-ice. The 1987 TC was better prepared, had more & bigger stars, and they were playing on their home-ice in a tournament called CANADA CUP, and yet they played 3 life and death games against supposedly sub-par Soviets and needed some last minute heroics and maybe favourable reffing. I just don't see the 1987 Soviets losing to the 1972 Team Canada, especially being up 3-1-1 after five games.

I think Belosheikin played quite well in the 2nd final - for starters, he kept his goal clean for 30 minutes and 7 seconds in the OT. Mylnikov did look bad on quite a few goals in games 1 and 3, no argument there. But, say, Tretiak wasn't very good in Moscow in 1972 either.