Post-Game Talk: #81 | Hurricanes at FLYERS | Thu., Apr. 5, 2018, 7:00 pm ET

[Beef Invictus]

I'm frankly appalled that Giroux got less minutes than Filppula. Your Hart trophy candidate is getting less minutes than a 4th line scrub in a critical game.

If it turns out Giroux got banged up and that is why he got the minutes he did fine, but otherwise that should be a fireable offense.

I think it's just that Hakstol is a garbage coach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Huh?

They’re the guys that played goalie, in a Flyers jersey, during the month of March... which is what I mean by “our goalies”.

I’m only talking about them as far as their impact on our record, not for or against Hakstol or Hextall.

They are flawed goalies. Hakstol finishes games by ensuring they face maximum pressure with his lineup decisions. That is bad coaching. It was also a major flaw with Berube.

 

[BernieParent]

How many teams make the playoffs when both their goalies are injured?

Vegas, for one. Your point is taken; however, Hextall freely took on the injury risk with the resigning of palliative-care candidate Neuvirth, though Elliott has been pretty healthy over his career and the Stolarz injury got this ball rolling.

 

[Striiker]

They are flawed goalies. Hakstol finishes games by ensuring they face maximum pressure with his lineup decisions. That is bad coaching.

Just to be sure, you know I'm not disagreeing with this, right?

Like I said, I'm not defending Hakstol at all. Only saying that the weak goals given up have been even more backbreaking than Hakstols idiotic decisions this month.

 

[FlyersMania2]

They are flawed goalies. Hakstol finishes games by ensuring they face maximum pressure with his lineup decisions. That is bad coaching. It was also a major flaw with Berube.

Yeah we had a very obvious deficiency in net with an AHL goalie and Mrazek, so how we play and who we play to cover for their lack of consistency was more important than ever.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just to be sure, you know I'm not disagreeing with this, right?

Like I said, I'm not defending Hakstol at all. Only saying that the weak goals given up have been even more backbreaking than Hakstols idiotic decisions this month.

I'm just pointing out another way Hak has made the team's road as hard as possible.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well, to be clear, I’m not absolving Hakstol of any blame. He’s still a massive detriment to this team and responsible for a ton of our problems.

I’m only saying the split of blame for goalies vs coach in the last month is like 60-40. He’s an idiot but some of the goals I’ve seen let in over the last month are goals that sink even a perfectly coached team.

I know you aren't, but aside from Hakstol's dubious personnel decisions, it's goaltending that has cost this team more than anything, and I think 60-40 is putting it lightly. I don't know the stats, but I would wager the Flyers are in the bottom two or three teams in the league in save percentage since the all-star break. The sheer number of inexcusable goals conceded by Mrazek -- I'm not sure I've seen anything like it over a 17 game stretch.

Fans here often speak like their opinions are gospel, and competing viewpoints can only be for the sake of being contrarian. Well, many of those same fans were clamoring for Mrazek since the summer (also loved the Filppula trade and were buoyant about the positive "ripple effect" Boyd Gordon would have).

If Mrazek gave them even close to league average goaltending the Flyers would have clinched a playoff spot.

 

[Striiker]

I'm just pointing out another way Hak has made the team's road as hard as possible.

Ok yeah, of course.

I was gonna say “when you know you have bad goalies, you should realize that turtling and putting a ton of pressure on them and the defense is the worst possible move”... but then I realized that, based on his player evaluation skills, he may not realize that our goalies suck.

It still just blows my mind that he keeps going into the shell EVERY GAME when it’s blown up his face so many times. He just doesn’t learn.

 

[FlyersMania2]

I know you aren't, but aside from Hakstol's dubious personnel decisions, it's goaltending that has cost this team more than anything, and I think 60-40 is putting it lightly. I don't know the stats, but I would wager the Flyers are in the bottom two or three teams in the league in save percentage since the all-star break. The sheer number of inexcusable goals conceded by Mrazek -- I'm not sure I've seen anything like it over a 17 game stretch.

Fans here often speak like their opinions are gospel, and competing viewpoints can only be for the sake of being contrarian. Well, many of those same fans were clamoring for Mrazek since the summer (also loved the Filppula trade and were buoyant about the positive "ripple effect" Boyd Gordon would have).

If Mrazek gave them even close to league average goaltending the Flyers would have clinched a playoff spot.

So blame Hextall - anyone with average vision could see that Mrazek was a product of his system and not a sustainbly good goaltender. A goalie like him almost never works here either - small, positionably questionable, etc - you need a very specific system or Pronger-like defenseman to compensate for what he lacks.

Ben Bishop would have been a good fit (I can't remember his availability but he's not a starter these days, correct?)

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's really incredible how the team is in its current position despite having to overcome both Hakstol and their goalie situation...and Hakstol aggravating the latter situation.


Speaks to how fantastically our top players have played. Huge kudos to G, Couts, V, TK, and Ghost especially.

 

[Striiker]

It's really incredible how the team is in its current position despite having to overcome both Hakstol and their goalie situation...and Hakstol aggravating the latter situation.


Speaks to how fantastically our top players have played. Huge kudos to G, Couts, V, TK, and Ghost especially.

You mean the lazy bums? They're lucky the other teams don't try against them.

 

[Ruck Over]

Vegas, for one. Your point is taken; however, Hextall freely took on the injury risk with the resigning of palliative-care candidate Neuvirth, though Elliott has been pretty healthy over his career and the Stolarz injury got this ball rolling.

About Elliott, he's been on the IR twice before, 2014 and 2016 when with the Blues. He had an injury history prior to being signed. If anything, getting injured in 2018 establishes a pattern (here comes 2020). A day-to-day non-illness related also somewhere in there (which was done earlier in this season too.)

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It's really incredible how the team is in its current position despite having to overcome both Hakstol and their goalie situation...and Hakstol aggravating the latter situation.


Speaks to how fantastically our top players have played. Huge kudos to G, Couts, V, TK, and Ghost especially.

And (lately especially) Oskar and Nolan.

 

[Ruck Over]

Ben Bishop would have been a good fit (I can't remember his availability but he's not a starter these days, correct?)

Bishop was a m'eh available goalie. Signed as a UFA with Dallas. He wanted term and money however, a payday after looking good in TB. He was not the most realistic get based on Flyers projection of youth (Felix and Carter) and band-aid philosophy (Neuvy and Elliott).

 

[Beef Invictus]

About Elliott, he's been on the IR twice before, 2014 and 2016 when with the Blues. He had an injury history prior to being signed. If anything, getting injured in 2018 establishes a pattern (here comes 2020). A day-to-day non-illness related also somewhere in there (which was done earlier in this season too.)

Even if he didn't have injury history, his usage this year was atrocious. Hakstol did everything he could to run him into the dirt. Then did the same with Neuvirth. Hak's goalie management has been crap from the start. He treats the guys like they're playing a college schedule.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Even if he didn't have injury history, his usage this year was atrocious. Hakstol did everything he could to run him into the dirt. Then did the same with Neuvirth. Hak's goalie management has been crap from the start. He treats the guys like they're playing a college schedule.

Yep, he's a dunce about absolutely everything, but he's an especially enormous dunce about this. Like LoD said: never go full Haktard.

 

[FlyersMania2]

He treats the guys like they're playing a college schedule.

This.

Never rotating Neuvy in then throwing him in cold. Not using him on back-to-backs. Forcing them back early from injury (as evidenced by both of them getting "injured" the game they come back)

 

[dats81]

They were rolling the dice and nearly lost by putting Elliot in net after almost 2 months of injury.

That's just a stupid decision by the coaching staff and GM alike. Normally, you send him an a conditioning stint, get him into a meaningless game to shake up the rust before putting him into a high pressure situation.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So blame Hextall - anyone with average vision could see that Mrazek was a product of his system and not a sustainbly good goaltender. A goalie like him almost never works here either - small, positionably questionable, etc - you need a very specific system or Pronger-like defenseman to compensate for what he lacks.

Ben Bishop would have been a good fit (I can't remember his availability but he's not a starter these days, correct?)

Interesting that you say "anyone with average vision" could see that Mrazek was "not a sustainably good good goaltender" and small and positionally questionable, yet you don't even know that Ben Bishop was Dallas' starter all season before getting injured and that he was acquired by them last May before he was set to become a UFA and signed a 6 year deal for about $5M per. My guess is that your pre-Philadelphia knowledge of Mrazek was about as extensive as your knowledge of Ben Bishop.

Anyway, the point stands that the general consensus on this board was pro-Mrazek for as far back as this summer, before they signed Elliott, and it was another case of me being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian when I said I was against him because he gave up more bad goals and was out of position more than just about any NHL goaltender I had ever seen. Now, when Elliott and Neuvirth both went down Hextall didn't have much of a choice -- he had to get a goalie, and Mrazek was probably the cheapest price out there -- but as it turns out they wouldn't have been any worse off (and maybe better off) simply going with Lyon.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They were rolling the dice and nearly lost by putting Elliot in net after almost 2 months of injury.

That's just a stupid decision by the coaching staff and GM alike. Normally, you send him an a conditioning stint, get him into a meaningless game to shake up the rust before putting him into a high pressure situation.

The alternative is to go with Mrazek, he of the .891 save percentage and coming off an atrocious 5 goal performance against the Islanders. Easy to say they shouldn't have played Elliott in retrospect, but in the moment I think it was justifiable.

 

[hatcher]

The alternative is to go with Mrazek, he of the .891 save percentage and coming off an atrocious 5 goal performance against the Islanders. Easy to say they shouldn't have played Elliott in retrospect, but in the moment I think it was justifiable.

Team d is f***ing terrible too though.

 

[Striiker]

I still say Neuvirth is easily our best goalie, if he could stay healthy.

Anyone who disagrees can fight me.

 

[Striiker]

The alternative is to go with Mrazek, he of the .891 save percentage and coming off an atrocious 5 goal performance against the Islanders. Easy to say they shouldn't have played Elliott in retrospect, but in the moment I think it was justifiable.

I 100% would have started him yesterday and I'd do it again tomorrow.

Like I said a few times in the GDT, it was a choice between a rusty mediocre goalie or a goalie we know is horrific and out of position 95% of the time. Not only would I take my chances on the rusty guy, but it's important to make sure he shakes off the rust if you want any shot in the playoffs. Hopefully last nights horrible game from Elliott gets rid of the rust and nerves so he can just be his usual crappy self, instead of last nights absolutely horrible Leighton clone.

 

[FlyersMania2]

Interesting that you say "anyone with average vision" could see that Mrazek was "not a sustainably good good goaltender" and small and positionally questionable, yet you don't even know that Ben Bishop was Dallas' starter all season before getting injured and that he was acquired by them last May before he was set to become a UFA and signed a 6 year deal for about $5M per. My guess is that your pre-Philadelphia knowledge of Mrazek was about as extensive as your knowledge of Ben Bishop.

Anyway, the point stands that the general consensus on this board was pro-Mrazek for as far back as this summer, before they signed Elliott, and it was another case of me being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian when I said I was against him because he gave up more bad goals and was out of position more than just about any NHL goaltender I had ever seen. Now, when Elliott and Neuvirth both went down Hextall didn't have much of a choice -- he had to get a goalie, and Mrazek was probably the cheapest price out there -- but as it turns out they wouldn't have been any worse off (and maybe better off) simply going with Lyon.

Ben Bishop was not the starter in Tampa when he left and when we played Dallas he was injured so no, I was not following him this season on Dallas. As I've said previously I root for Tampa secondarily so I have watched him play enough to know he would have been a good fit for how we currently are. We've all seen Detroit plenty since the divisions changed so clearly as a casual hockey fan, MYSELF and others would have seen more of Mrazek than a Dallas goalie. Your desire to be right about goaltending doesn't give you the right to be a smartass and act rude. That belongs elsewhere.

The "hive" mentality you criticize is what you're referencing now re: Mrazek. I've NEVER liked Mrazek. I would NEVER pick him as a goalie who would work in our system. I wouldn't take Bishop at his new contract either. He would have been a serviceable option and perhaps Neuvy replacement if he was available at the deadline but didn't have that contract.

Mrazek was a poor choice. I did not expect him to be MFL in net but I didn't expect much from him because again, he was a product of his environment. Certain system players don't work in other divisions (or even conferences) as well.

 

[1865]

I’ve never celebrated the award of an assist like I just did. I’m just happy that it was 99.

That would be the worst way to hit 100.