81-83 Isles vs. 91-93 Pens

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Ogopogo*

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moneyp said:
No, it doesn't, really, since NHL standings and playoff qualification aren't based on win percentage. High point totals come with a high winning percentage, but this is a case of you looking at the wrong numbers for your ratings..

Winning % and point totals are equals - unless you are a big fan of the point for OTL.


moneyp said:
If you look at goal differential per game, it's even more informative. But I'm guessing you haven't figured out a way to process that information into a lump sum...

I used to use goal differential per game in my ratings. I found that it unfairly skewed the numbers in favor of offensive teams. Goal % is fair to all teams.


moneyp said:
And mine is what, AHL play? What numbers am I working with? You apparently didn't learn much by reading Bill James. It's not about what the numbers are. It's about the information they represent.

Exactly. That is why I don't think you understand my player ratings.

moneyp said:
I haven't "ranked" anything. I've just presented some statistical information that can be used in the argument. I haven't actually made the argument myself. I might at some point, but I'd acknowledge beforehand that it's just my opinion and wouldn't assume that it empirically means anything.

Calling Buffalo a "fluke" would tend to counter that argument



moneyp said:
Most of the responses on that thread have been people poking holes in your system, but that's not the point. Most of the commentary on the "best player-team-whatever" threads will inevitably contain elements of collected experience, anecdotal *and* statistical evidence, not just a mishmash of numbers arbitrarily arrived atThere's something to learn in the experience of people who watch the game..

LOL. Do not assume that it is "a mishmash of numbers arbitrarily arrived at" because you refuse to understand or cannot understand the logic behind it. Becuase you haven't seen hockey from the 50s does that mean it didn't happen?


moneyp said:
Somehow I don't think your knowledge of NHL hockey qualifies you to determine who would make the NHL All-Star teams prior to 1931...

You are not in any position to understand my knowledge of NHL hockey. If someone with more knowledge than I, selected all stars for that era, I would consider it and likely incorporate it into my system. But, since nobody else has stepped up and done it, mine would be the most accurate.

moneyp said:
Once again, I don't have a rating system. I'm just tired of reading about yours.

Don't read my posts, then.
 

arnie

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Dec 20, 2004
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Malefic74 said:
The Isles were a much more balanced and complete team. The Pens played no defence. Larry Murphy AND Paul Coffey? Sorry no.

The Isles can match the offence, have better defence, better goaltending and are a much, much tougher team than the Pens. And if it's one thing Mario has NEVER liked it's a tough physical defenceman on him all the time. Potvin and Morrow would drive him nuts. AS long as the Isles satyed out of the penalty box they would wrap it up.

Remember they didn't have a lot of trouble containing the early 80s Oilers like the 81-82 team which had scored 417 goals or the 82-83 team which racked up 424 goals. Those Pens teams never cracked 380 let alone 400.

As others have said, Mario makes it interesting to watch, but the Isles would romp.

People forget how good that team really was...

The Islanders could not come near to matching the Pens firepower. In addition to Lemieux, Jagr and Francis, they also had 35-50 goal scorers Kevin Stevens, and Mark Recchi, Rick Tocchet, Joey Mullen and Thomas Sandstrom at various time. Murphy and Coffey are two of the top 6-8 offensive defement of all time. Even grinder third liners like Phil Borque and Bob Errey would sometimes hit 20.

The Islanders might be more balanced and better defensively, but they couldn't match the Pens scoring, especially the top 2 lines.
 
arnie said:
The Islanders could not come near to matching the Pens firepower. In addition to Lemieux, Jagr and Francis, they also had 35-50 goal scorers Kevin Stevens, and Mark Recchi, Rick Tocchet, Joey Mullen and Thomas Sandstrom at various time. Murphy and Coffey are two of the top 6-8 offensive defement of all time. Even grinder third liners like Phil Borque and Bob Errey would sometimes hit 20.

The Islanders might be more balanced and better defensively, but they couldn't match the Pens scoring, especially the top 2 lines.

If the last 10 years have taught us anything at all, it's this.

Defense beats offense. Over and over again.

If the Pens could manage to suck the Isles into run and gun they would probably win, but with Arbour behind the bench I don't see that happening. The Oilers tried to draw the Isles into run and gun and were thumped soundly. It wasn't until Edmonton started to play at least some defense that they were able to overcome the Isles.

The Pens had more talent, but the Isles were the better team.
 
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