Post-Game Talk: #77: Maple Leafs 4 at FLYERS 5 (1-0 SO), Wednesday, Mar. 27, 2019, 7:00 p.m. ET

[Striiker]

It's not about 1 recent report or a 1 time report (like the all but G are available). It's been consistent throughout the year that the in the know guys like Friedman and McKenzie have reported Ghost could be traded. That's a lot different than the beats saying it. If Ghost is traded he's bring back a top 6 player. That is why he is a good one to deal.

And I love what Ghost brings. Hell I had his jersey on last night and was irate when he made that pass for the last Leafs goal. That's freaking hockey 101 that you don't make that pass.

No, it hasn’t been consistent. There was one comment made and then people on here constantly talking about it. It was said they’re listening to offers, which is much different than shopping a player, and then the GM said they’re literally listening to offers on every player, other than Giroux. It means nothing.

It’s not impossible that he’s traded, same as any other player, but based on the information we have there’s absolutely no reason to think it will happen, let alone pretend it’s a guarantee.

Fletcher may not be perfect but nothing he’s done so far suggests he’d be stupid enough to do something like that. It’s all just panicky dramatic fans wanting something to worry about.

 

[Psuhockey]

You’re basing this on the media? Thats even worse.

If this were true Couturier would have been traded years ago, back when there were a ton of rumors and hypotheticals. We’d also have Kane, Byfuglien, Bernier, Ryan, and a bunch of other players the media constantly went on about us adding. The rumors and hints mean exactly nothing.

Also, the media made it clear that the only untouchable guy is Giroux, meaning everyone else is “available”, which by your logic means we’re about to trade the whole team in a year or two.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[dragonoffrost]

No, it hasn’t been consistent. There was one comment made and then people on here constantly talking about it. It was said they’re listening to offers, which is much different than shopping a player, and then the GM said they’re literally listening to offers on every player, other than Giroux. It means nothing.

It’s not impossible that he’s traded, same as any other player, but based on the information we have there’s absolutely no reason to think it will happen, let alone pretend it’s a guarantee.

Fletcher may not be perfect but nothing he’s done so far suggests he’d be stupid enough to do something like that. It’s all just panicky dramatic fans wanting something to worry about.

Listening to offers = could be traded. I never said he would be traded I just said COULD and IF and what the likely return is IF it happens. That also explains logically why he would be the likely guy to go as you have to give to get.

Also It has been all year as he was rumored to Toronto for Nylander or Kapanen when Nylander was holding out and has been rumored thoughout the year as a target up to the trade deadline.

 

[Striiker]

Listening to offers = could be traded. I never said he would be traded I just said COULD and IF and what the likely return is IF it happens. That also explains logically why he would be the likely guy to go as you have to give to get.

Also It has been all year as he was rumored to Toronto for Nylander or Kapanen when Nylander was holding out and has been rumored thoughout the year as a target up to the trade deadline.

So then Couturier = could be traded too, since Fletcher is reported to be listening to offers to "everyone other than Giroux". Guess people should freak out and assume he's a goner too.

And I haven't seen a single one of those hypothetical trades you mentioned anywhere other than on this board.

 

[dragonoffrost]

So then Couturier = could be traded too, since Fletcher is reported to be listening to offers to "everyone other than Giroux". Guess people should freak out and assume he's a goner too.

And I haven't seen a single one of those hypothetical trades you mentioned anywhere other than on this board.

Those two trades were talked about on many National outlets as possible ways Toronto would solve the Nylander contract and future contracts (Marner, Kapanen) and get a D man (pre Muzzin)

 

[deadhead]

The difference between Ghost and Provorov is simple - 4 years and tougher assignments.
Provorov gets the toughest defensive assignments, he's going to make more mistakes because he's consistently on ice against the other team's best players.
And he's almost four years younger than Ghost, so there's more patience when he makes mistakes.

The problem with Ghost is he's no longer an exceptional skater, so it's more important that he be mentally disciplined, and they've stressed that since he was in the AHL - so there's probably some disappointment that he's regressed this season after showing promise of being a top all around defenseman last season.

I think the trade rumors are speculation based on a combination of value/upside, that is, which players have enough value to bring something worthwhile in return but lack the upside that is likely to spur seller's regret. And have deficiencies (defense) that the team might be interested in addressing: Ghost, Voracek, JVR, TK. The rest either are too valuable (Giroux, Couts), have far more upside left than you'd obtain in a trade (Patrick, Lindblom, Sanheim, Myers), or simply lack value.

I mean you can trade Hagg and AMac (with salary retained) for some hockey pucks, or Laughton for a draft pick, but that ain't moving the needle.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

sounds like another patric sharp thing. for whatever reason they just don't like him and will get rid of him.

 

[Striiker]

Those two trades were talked about on many National outlets as possible ways Toronto would solve the Nylander contract and future contracts (Marner, Kapanen) and get a D man (pre Muzzin)

So as someone they might want to target, in the same way that we were linked to Kane, Byfuglien, Ryan, etc etc etc?

Again, it means nothing.

I also can't find proof of any of those existing. All I can find is the desperate hopes of people dumb enough to hate Ghost and want him gone.

So I'll repeat again, nothing of any value or credibility exists that would suggest a trade is incoming or that anything is happening other than Fletcher listening to offers, just like he is with everyone other than Giroux.

 

[Adtar02]

The difference between Ghost and Provorov is simple - 4 years and tougher assignments.
Provorov gets the toughest defensive assignments, he's going to make more mistakes because he's consistently on ice against the other team's best players.
And he's almost four years younger than Ghost, so there's more patience when he makes mistakes.

The problem with Ghost is he's no longer an exceptional skater, so it's more important that he be mentally disciplined, and they've stressed that since he was in the AHL - so there's probably some disappointment that he's regressed this season after showing promise of being a top all around defenseman last season.

I think the trade rumors are speculation based on a combination of value/upside, that is, which players have enough value to bring something worthwhile in return but lack the upside that is likely to spur seller's regret. And have deficiencies (defense) that the team might be interested in addressing: Ghost, Voracek, JVR, TK. The rest either are too valuable (Giroux, Couts), have far more upside left than you'd obtain in a trade (Patrick, Lindblom, Sanheim, Myers), or simply lack value.

I mean you can trade Hagg and AMac (with salary retained) for some hockey pucks, or Laughton for a draft pick, but that ain't moving the needle.

Oh the ghost mistake was against fourth liners. Matthew and nylander are not tough competition. Good to know. Also good to know he is in decline and can’t skate.

I am not defending his mistake. I am stating yet again. There are worse d on this team. To trade him before the slop is gone is stupid regardless of the return. It takes longer for the d to get up to speed. And it has taken way longer to get them all on the team. We have a ton of upside in the minors and lower levels at forward.

Stay the course and shed the bad player ie not ghost.

 

[Striiker]

It's going to be funny when the dinosaurs realize Fletcher isn't trading away all the players they hate.

 

[EasyMac]

"Finally we are close to icing three competent pairings on defense after years of watching scrubs on the lower lines"

"We should trade one of our top 4 defenseman because he is not perfect and makes a lot of turnovers"

"All of our defensemen have been prone to turnovers thanks to the 'system'. And when you handle the puck as much as Ghost and try to drive the play like he does, you will get turnovers. However the good definitely outweighs the bad"

"But he turns over the puck. And he is small. And reasons. So trade him to improve the team but I can't give you an example of something realistic that would improve the team. So trade him"

 

[Ruck Over]

 

[renberg]

Also It has been all year as he was rumored to Toronto for Nylander or Kapanen when Nylander was holding out and has been rumored thoughout the year as a target up to the trade deadline.

Many times in season discussions become off season realities. From what was rumored, the Leafs like what Ghost could bring them. They should since he can be an up tempo player with a big shot which would fit their scheme. Ghost's season hasn't been his best one but, all in all, it hasn't been awful and is one that he probably will overcome next year. The Leafs still have salary issues with Marner, Kapanen and Johnsson up for new deals that will be costly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if something goes down between the two clubs after the season.

 

[Striiker]

"Finally we are close to icing three competent pairings on defense after years of watching scrubs on the lower lines"

"We should trade one of our top 4 defenseman because he is not perfect and makes a lot of turnovers"

"All of our defensemen have been prone to turnovers thanks to the 'system'. And when you handle the puck as much as Ghost and try to drive the play like he does, you will get turnovers. However the good definitely outweighs the bad"

"But he turns over the puck. And he is small. And reasons. So trade him to improve the team but I can't give you an example of something realistic that would improve the team. So trade him"

Spot on.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Gostisbehere has a $4.5M caphit, trading Kapenen or Johnsson in a deal for him isn’t really going to alleviate much cap relief if at all since both of them are likely in $3.5-4M range in their upcoming extensions anyway.

The biggest goal for them should be trying to dump Marleau ($6.25M x 1) &/or Zaitsev ($4.5M x 5) on someone which the Flyers should have zero interest in either of those players.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Many times in season discussions become off season realities. From what was rumored, the Leafs like what Ghost could bring them. They should since he can be an up tempo player with a big shot which would fit their scheme. Ghost's season hasn't been his best one but, all in all, it hasn't been awful and is one that he probably will overcome next year. The Leafs still have salary issues with Marner, Kapanen and Johnsson up for new deals that will be costly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if something goes down between the two clubs after the season.

I’m skeptical. Toronto’s D has skill, as does the rest of the roster. They have Rielly for PP1. They’re just extremely soft & need another RH shot. I don’t see Ghost as a fit there.

 

[deadhead]

Oh the ghost mistake was against fourth liners. Matthew and nylander are not tough competition. Good to know. Also good to know he is in decline and can’t skate.

Stay the course and shed the bad player ie not ghost.

Ghost's skating has declined, anyone who has watched the Flyers knows that, it's obvious as night and day.
Doesn't mean he's a bad skater, he's just not the explosive waterbug he was as a rookie, he lacks top end speed, he's lost his great burst, and opposing players are no longer afraid of being juked out of their jocks by him.

As Ghost showed last year, that won't keep him from being effective if he plays a smart, disciplined game.
This year he's been sloppy, first struggling with Provorov, then under Gordon.
last year HDCF/CA 212/194
this year HDCF/CA 191/191

It's not Ghost is good/bad, rather those claiming he's elite are simply blowing it out of their posterior.
Last season Ghost was very good, only lacking the physical presence or great speed to be a dominating defenseman.
This year he's good, but nothing special and easily replaced.
The question is which is the real Ghost now that he's no longer an elite skater.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I didn’t want to trade Ghost, I wanted to see how Ghost would be as a winger, thinking outside the box but no one was buying what I was selling.

 

[kudymen]

"Finally we are close to icing three competent pairings on defense after years of watching scrubs on the lower lines"

"We should trade one of our top 4 defenseman because he is not perfect and makes a lot of turnovers"

"All of our defensemen have been prone to turnovers thanks to the 'system'. And when you handle the puck as much as Ghost and try to drive the play like he does, you will get turnovers. However the good definitely outweighs the bad"

"But he turns over the puck. And he is small. And reasons. So trade him to improve the team but I can't give you an example of something realistic that would improve the team. So trade him"

10/10 meme use

 

[Deadpool8812]

Morin proved to be a better defenseman than Hagg on one of his first shifts when he successfully and appropriately cleared the puck out of the zone instead of resorting to Hagg's "get the puck, and blindly fire it around the boards resulting in a turnover" way

While I don't hate Hagg as much a many posters here, it's quite obvious that he shouldnt be in the line-up over Morin, or even MacDonald. I understand they play him because he is "physical" and "hits" but once Morin finds his feet, we will get them from him

 

[Ruck Over]

... he shouldnt be in the line-up over Morin, or even MacDonald.

We are enemies. Anyone who purports AMac belongs in the line-up is a doppelganger. Has AMac ever gotten into Shrek's head, or mis-fired a puck and mind-controlled a funky rebound that found it's way into the net? Starfish do not make star defenders.

Everything else you said was reasonable, just as an evil inter-dimensional subvert agent of chaos would do in order to cover tracks.

Nay

 

[deadhead]

Morin proved to be a better defenseman than Hagg on one of his first shifts when he successfully and appropriately cleared the puck out of the zone instead of resorting to Hagg's "get the puck, and blindly fire it around the boards resulting in a turnover" way

While I don't hate Hagg as much a many posters here, it's quite obvious that he shouldnt be in the line-up over Morin, or even MacDonald. I understand they play him because he is "physical" and "hits" but once Morin finds his feet, we will get them from him

Why Gordon has kept Hagg - Gudas together as a pair is a mystery of the universe, maybe Wilson is just a fossil who thinks pairing two physical, immobile defensemen is a good thing. Go figure.

Morin is probably more an issue of taking it slow, he's coming off a severe injury, has hardly played for two years, wasn't a polished player to begin with, so easing him into the lineup is probably the right approach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why Gordon has kept Hagg - Gudas together as a pair is a mystery of the universe, maybe Wilson is just a fossil who thinks pairing two physical, immobile defensemen is a good thing. Go figure.

Morin is probably more an issue of taking it slow, he's coming off a severe injury, has hardly played for two years, wasn't a polished player to begin with, so easing him into the lineup is probably the right approach.

Watching you criticize a pair that hasn't scratched the level of permanence of the absolutely disastrous 8-47 matchup when you were never this critical of them being together at any point is hilarious.

 

[renberg]

Why Gordon has kept Hagg - Gudas together as a pair is a mystery of the universe, maybe Wilson is just a fossil who thinks pairing two physical, immobile defensemen is a good thing. Go figure.

Morin is probably more an issue of taking it slow, he's coming off a severe injury, has hardly played for two years, wasn't a polished player to begin with, so easing him into the lineup is probably the right approach.

Gordon has said that Wilson is in complete charge of the defense. He makes the pairs and tells them who are to go out on the ice and when. At this point, probably all of the pairings are temporary. The Flyers have to figure out what all of these young guys can do at the professional level. Add to that a new HC and staff and everything should be up for grabs for a while. Once that is done then we'll probably see the creation of permanent pairs.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gordon has said that Wilson is in complete charge of the defense. He makes the pairs and tells them who are to go out on the ice and when. At this point, probably all of the pairings are temporary. The Flyers have to figure out what all of these young guys can do at the professional level. Add to that a new HC and staff and everything should be up for grabs for a while. Once that is done then we'll probably see the creation of permanent pairs.

If they are actually looking to the future and to development for the first time since Berube was hired, it would make sense to just quarantine Hogg with Gudas to let the others shine. Of course, that presumes this coaching staff doesn't grotesquely overvalue Hogg.