Post-Game Talk: #73: Canadiens at FLYERS, Tuesday, March 19, 2019, 7:00 p.m. ET

phlflyer1

Registered User
Oct 16, 2007
267
262
South Jersey
Oh I get the shot every year but I have had a few years where within the next week I was down for 4 days with Tamiflu being taken to clear whatever hit me.

I don't work in the health care field but I had the same experience as you on two separate occasions several years back where I got violently ill within a few days of receiving the flu shot. Both times I was out several days and felt much worse than I ever did when I had a flu or cold in the years before flu shots.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
In order to win in the playoffs with dump and chase, you have to successfully chase the puck down (and good luck with that even with a fast team). If they are a slow team, then continuously yielding possession by dumping the puck and then having to chase the other team around is the worst possible system to implement as it would only emphasize their weakness. And you support it?
Yes, I support a team that is below-average in team speed, puckhandling, & passing dumping the puck instead of trying to maintain puck possession through the neutral zone & turning it over.

That doesn’t mean I’m not in favor of some of their players trying for controlled entries (like Couturier, who’s great at it). But Gordon doesn’t forbid their best skill guys from carrying the puck. They just don’t have many who are good at it. You’re disregarding the overall dearth of puck skill on this team. You can’t expect a team with mediocre speed & skill to be able to play a puck control game just because you tell them to.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,497
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Armored Train
Yes, I support a team that is below-average in team speed, puckhandling, & passing dumping the puck instead of trying to maintain puck possession through the neutral zone & turning it over.

That doesn’t mean I’m not in favor of some of their players trying for controlled entries (like Couturier, who’s great at it). But Gordon doesn’t forbid their best skill guys from carrying the puck. They just don’t have many who are good at it. You’re disregarding the overall dearth of puck skill on this team. You can’t expect a team with mediocre speed & skill to be able to play a puck control game just because you tell them to.


This doesn't make any sense. If the team is lacking in speed, then having to chase the puck down only to likely fail and then have to face opposing pressure is the worst possible approach. It takes a shortcoming, makes it very prominent rather than diminishing it, and piles on top of it by ensuring the team is pressured harder as a result.

And if the team is lacking in speed, then why are they trying these long stretch passes? If the team is slow, then they can't get separation and they're a low percentage play.
 

wankstifier

All glory to the harvest god
Jun 19, 2018
7,684
11,097
I'm not at all qualified to comment either, but I do have a father with a PhD in Microbiology and 40 years in a related industry whose favorite subject is the things people believe about vaccines with zero scientific evidence. He reminds me to get one every year.

This is really dangerous stuff. Not remotely a joke or a subject for anecdotal evidence.

Yep, excellent remark.

I know there’s a poster here with a kid who has an immunodeficiency. He would really appreciate it if everyone took the time to get vaccinated. There are those whose lives depend on herd immunity.
 

prototypical4thliner

Registered User
Jan 12, 2017
3,989
5,971
I’m not qualified to comment on this but I will anyway.

The vaccine shouldn’t make people ill. I wonder if healthcare workers are more susceptible given lack of sleep and proximity to a population of all manner of hosts.

So maybe the vaccine further comprises immune systems that are already heavily taxed?
I am qualified because I have to deal with it EVERY DAMN DAY (graduated with my pharm.d before anyone says otherwise).

One of a couple things happen when someone “gets sick from the flu shot”

1. They aren’t sick from the flu, it’s another virus which holy crap the shot can’t protect you from.

2. They got the shot and were exposed to someone with the flu before the vaccine had full effect, up to two weeks (like in an office with a bunch of sick people).

3. The vaccine covers three (now four) of the predicted strains, there are more. Sometimes we do a shit job predicting, sometimes you get a less common strain.

4. All of the above don’t happen and you still feel like crap? Fever, chills, aches, fatigue? Those are all signs of an immune response—tangible evidence of a response to the vaccine. You don’t have the flu, your body is reacting to the vaccine itself.

Get your god damn shots folks. It’s pure and simple risk analysis. They save way more people than they harm.

Sermon over.
 

wankstifier

All glory to the harvest god
Jun 19, 2018
7,684
11,097
I am qualified because I have to deal with it EVERY DAMN DAY (graduated with my pharm.d before anyone says otherwise).

One of a couple things happen when someone “gets sick from the flu shot”

1. They aren’t sick from the flu, it’s another virus which holy crap the shot can’t protect you from.

2. They got the shot and were exposed to someone with the flu before the vaccine had full effect, up to two weeks (like in an office with a bunch of sick people).

3. The vaccine covers three (now four) of the predicted strains, there are more. Sometimes we do a **** job predicting, sometimes you get a less common strain.

4. All of the above don’t happen and you still feel like crap? Fever, chills, aches, fatigue? Those are all signs of an immune response—tangible evidence of a response to the vaccine. You don’t have the flu, your body is reacting to the vaccine itself.

Get your god damn shots folks. It’s pure and simple risk analysis. They save way more people than they harm.

Sermon over.

Thanks for sharing.

How are predictions made about what strains will propagate from season to season?
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,497
164,369
Armored Train
I am qualified because I have to deal with it EVERY DAMN DAY (graduated with my pharm.d before anyone says otherwise).

One of a couple things happen when someone “gets sick from the flu shot”

1. They aren’t sick from the flu, it’s another virus which holy crap the shot can’t protect you from.

2. They got the shot and were exposed to someone with the flu before the vaccine had full effect, up to two weeks (like in an office with a bunch of sick people).

3. The vaccine covers three (now four) of the predicted strains, there are more. Sometimes we do a **** job predicting, sometimes you get a less common strain.

4. All of the above don’t happen and you still feel like crap? Fever, chills, aches, fatigue? Those are all signs of an immune response—tangible evidence of a response to the vaccine. You don’t have the flu, your body is reacting to the vaccine itself.

Get your god damn shots folks. It’s pure and simple risk analysis. They save way more people than they harm.

Sermon over.

giphy.gif
 

prototypical4thliner

Registered User
Jan 12, 2017
3,989
5,971
Thanks for sharing.

How are predictions made about what strains will propagate from season to season?
CDC and the WHO among others get surveillance cultures through health care reporting. Remember what’s going on now happened six months ago in Australia and South America and Africa. It’s back and forth, but there is some predictability. Not a ton, hence them blowing it sometimes.
 

EasyMac

Registered User
Jul 8, 2004
972
206
Isn't it rather unlikely to get the flu from the flu shot as it's not a living virus?

Yes, the flu shot will not give you the flu. You can have a mild reaction in the next 48 hours as it does activate your immune system (fever, mild body aches, etc) as well as have pain/redness at the site of the injection. But you do not develop the flu from the vaccine.

Getting a flu vaccine doesn't mean you have no chance of developing the flu however. The vaccine you get changes year to year and is based on what is predicted to be the most frequent strain(s) of flu that year. This is based on tracking the frequency of the strains worldwide and a general consensus by a panel of experts choices which strains to vaccinate against. This is made well in advance of flu season (for Northern Hemisphere, decision is made in February for the upcoming fall) so some years it ends up being way off the mark and offering little protection. Most of the time they are fairly accurate though. Here is an interesting link of how they decide:
How Are Seasonal Flu Vaccines Made?

Reasons why you may get the flu not long after being vaccinated is most likely that either you were exposed prior to vaccination and were still incubating the virus or were exposed not long after getting the vaccination before it is effective (does not protect you for 1-2 weeks after receiving it). Also it is not 100% effective for everyone. On that note, a lot of childhood vaccines don't always give lifetime protection like once though, especially the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine. It is good to get a booster of this as an adult. When I had to have my immunity tested prior to school, I found out I was no longer immune to mumps and rubella.

It is a good idea for everyone to get the flu shot as it helps slow down the spread and protects those with weakened immune systems that can't get the flu shot or for those it does not work for. If you work in any healthcare field (including working at retirement/nursing homes), are older than 55 or younger than 18 you definitely should get it as well. Most think of the flu as a annoying inconvenience that they get over, but a walk in the ICU in the winter can show you just how dangerous the flu can be.

Source: I did sometimes pay attention in medical school

Edit: see prototypical4thliner's easier to read response above as well
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
37,544
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Philadelphia, Pa
I am qualified because I have to deal with it EVERY DAMN DAY (graduated with my pharm.d before anyone says otherwise).

One of a couple things happen when someone “gets sick from the flu shot”

1. They aren’t sick from the flu, it’s another virus which holy crap the shot can’t protect you from.

2. They got the shot and were exposed to someone with the flu before the vaccine had full effect, up to two weeks (like in an office with a bunch of sick people).

3. The vaccine covers three (now four) of the predicted strains, there are more. Sometimes we do a **** job predicting, sometimes you get a less common strain.

4. All of the above don’t happen and you still feel like crap? Fever, chills, aches, fatigue? Those are all signs of an immune response—tangible evidence of a response to the vaccine. You don’t have the flu, your body is reacting to the vaccine itself.

Get your god damn shots folks. It’s pure and simple risk analysis. They save way more people than they harm.

Sermon over.

I want to preface this by saying - I'm not going to say it's not effective, or anything of the sort. Some of us are just lucky, and it is what it is. But....


I havent had a flu shot since 2007 (my mom used to take such good care of me), but I havent had a single issue with the flu since well before then. I like to think ive been extremely lucky.
 

prototypical4thliner

Registered User
Jan 12, 2017
3,989
5,971
I want to preface this by saying - I'm not going to say it's not effective, or anything of the sort. Some of us are just lucky, and it is what it is. But....


I havent had a flu shot since 2007 (my mom used to take such good care of me), but I havent had a single issue with the flu since well before then. I like to think ive been extremely lucky.
It’s a numbers game. I always preached giving yourself every competitive advantage: life sucks, get a helmet.
 

prototypical4thliner

Registered User
Jan 12, 2017
3,989
5,971
Yes, the flu shot will not give you the flu. You can have a mild reaction in the next 48 hours as it does activate your immune system (fever, mild body aches, etc) as well as have pain/redness at the site of the injection. But you do not develop the flu from the vaccine.

Getting a flu vaccine doesn't mean you have no chance of developing the flu however. The vaccine you get changes year to year and is based on what is predicted to be the most frequent strain(s) of flu that year. This is based on tracking the frequency of the strains worldwide and a general consensus by a panel of experts choices which strains to vaccinate against. This is made well in advance of flu season (for Northern Hemisphere, decision is made in February for the upcoming fall) so some years it ends up being way off the mark and offering little protection. Most of the time they are fairly accurate though. Here is an interesting link of how they decide:
How Are Seasonal Flu Vaccines Made?

Reasons why you may get the flu not long after being vaccinated is most likely that either you were exposed prior to vaccination and were still incubating the virus or were exposed not long after getting the vaccination before it is effective (does not protect you for 1-2 weeks after receiving it). Also it is not 100% effective for everyone. On that note, a lot of childhood vaccines don't always give lifetime protection like once though, especially the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine. It is good to get a booster of this as an adult. When I had to have my immunity tested prior to school, I found out I was no longer immune to mumps and rubella.

It is a good idea for everyone to get the flu shot as it helps slow down the spread and protects those with weakened immune systems that can't get the flu shot or for those it does not work for. If you work in any healthcare field (including working at retirement/nursing homes), are older than 55 or younger than 18 you definitely should get it as well. Most think of the flu as a annoying inconvenience that they get over, but a walk in the ICU in the winter can show you just how dangerous the flu can be.

Source: I did sometimes pay attention in medical school

Edit: see prototypical4thliner's easier to read response above as well
Eloquently put hahaha. Our professions deviate a bit in that I literally need to measure my audience’s attention in nanoseconds.
 

EasyMac

Registered User
Jul 8, 2004
972
206
Eloquently put hahaha. Our professions deviate a bit in that I literally need to measure my audience’s attention in nanoseconds.

We do get a bit more time for sure. But for me it is easy to show patients the benefit of getting the flu shot in that I am going to be weakening their immune system and I explain to them that they could die from a bad infection and the flu shot will reduce that chance. Usually works.
And that is why everyone should get it. If you increase immunity across the population you will drastically cut the spread of it and limit the chance of the vulnerable population from being exposed to the flu. And it is just not death, for a lot of elderly even if they recover from the flu, they are often worse off afterwards, as they have decreased mobility (a 4 or 5 day stay in the hospital in bed for most of the day results in a surprisingly significant muscle loss) and weaker, leading to a reduced quality of live.

So while it is not 100% effective for each individual, it still will have a large impact at the population level. So get your flu shot! Sorry, end of my rant.
 

Doodootheclown

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
878
1,638
DelCo
Was that said?

And so he practices. Practices like he would play in fact, which isn’t always well-received by teammates who are playing every game as if they are in a playoff. Morin is 6-foot-7, and despite having played in just three regular-season games as a Flyer over the last two seasons, his thundering hits from those games and preseason ones are already Bunyanesque moments for fans.
“I try to be a [bleep] out there all the time,” Morin said. “I mean, it upsets some guys. But I really don’t have much of a choice. I need to be really intense and I need to work hard so when I get my shot, I will be ready.”

As Flyers hang on, Samuel Morin’s chance to play dissipates | Sam Donnellon
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,656
1,582
Carinthia, AUT
Another random thought:

Scott Gordon knows the Flyers' young D like no other HC before him. He coached Gostisbehere, Hägg, Morin, Myers and Friedman with the Phantoms and did that for multiple years (Ghost got promoted early during his first season with LHV but ...).

There must be a reason that he and Wilson, who is no slouch in terms of player evaluation either, just value certain prospects over others? They switched general managers, head coaches, D coaches and nothing has really changed for Sam Morin.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,035
Nova Scotia
Another random thought:

Scott Gordon knows the Flyers' young D like no other HC before him. He coached Gostisbehere, Hägg, Morin, Myers and Friedman with the Phantoms and did that for multiple years (Ghost got promoted early during his first season with LHV but ...).

There must be a reason that he and Wilson, who is no slouch in terms of player evaluation either, just value certain prospects over others? They switched general managers, head coaches, D coaches and nothing has really changed for Sam Morin.
He has barely played in 2 years and they were in a playoff run. It made sense not to play Morin especially when he struggled stamina wise, in his AHL games.

At this point, they should dress 7 Dmen and give him some shifts here and there. You can control it more. Especially if we are keeping G, Jake and TK at RW....I would just run with those 3 at RW and move Hartman to LW.
 

Ironmanrulez

#nEvErrEbUiLd #nEvErpLaYyOuTh #nEverpLaYsKiLL
Jul 1, 2010
3,359
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Cologne, Germany
The amount of people here that like to put Morin in the lineup in a lost cause while you have more experienced players in it is very funny.

You need talent to win against better team. You wont win with less skilled players that dont have the IQ and hockey senses to counter better players. There is reasons why he only have 3 nhl games and its not bad managment or bad coaching. Scott Gordon develloped good players and role players asked in the minors like Ghost and Hagg.

Are you trully observers of the game of hockey or it just a hobby to come here and speak nonsense to pass the time?

For example: do you find any reasons why Kenny Agostino
Got succes with the Devils after being claimed off the waivers from Mtl and Nikita Sherbak is still in the minors with the Reign? In a really bad and old Los Angeles team that needed young and fast skilled players? I'll ask you this?

Youre trolling right? Iam speechless if not....
 
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Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,505
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He has barely played in 2 years and they were in a playoff run. It made sense not to play Morin especially when he struggled stamina wise, in his AHL games.

At this point, they should dress 7 Dmen and give him some shifts here and there. You can control it more. Especially if we are keeping G, Jake and TK at RW....I would just run with those 3 at RW and move Hartman to LW.

Yup, they should do that on Saturday. Give Morin 10 minutes as the #7D, and bench Varone.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,035
Nova Scotia
Yup, they should do that on Saturday. Give Morin 10 minutes as the #7D, and bench Varone.
I would do it this game too just so Morin can get minutes. Having him dressed means that if the game gets lopsided in either way, you have the option of giving him extra minutes. It's dumb that we have dressed 7 D, and Morin was not one of them.
 

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