Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

[MBH]

Welp now that his season is done, do you guys still stand by these flaming hot takes or has he changed your mind? I'm definitely happy they didnt take York or Harley over him lol

People are doing victory laps after an AHL season? One in which he was outplayed by a defenseman taken 16 spots lower (the difference between 6 and 16 is immense).
AHL Stats
22nd overall, Bjornfot 44 games 6-13-19 +13 (#1 on a bad team)
6th overall, Seider 49 games 2-20-22 -5

The only D I absolutely would have taken over Seider was Broberg, and that's based largely on a single tournament viewing.
But I wouldn't have gone with defense this year.

Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six.

I had Cozens and Zegras ahead of both.
I had Krebs and Newhook ahead of Seider. I had Spencer Knight ahead of Seider.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd change any of those rankings right now.

 

[newfy]

People are doing victory laps after an AHL season? One in which he was outplayed by a defenseman taken 16 spots lower (the difference between 6 and 16 is immense).
AHL Stats
22nd overall, Bjornfot 44 games 6-13-19 +13 (#1 on a bad team)
6th overall, Seider 49 games 2-20-22 -5

The only D I absolutely would have taken over Seider was Broberg, and that's based largely on a single tournament viewing.
But I wouldn't have gone with defense this year.

Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six.

I had Cozens and Zegras ahead of both.
I had Krebs and Newhook ahead of Seider. I had Spencer Knight ahead of Seider.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd change any of those rankings right now.

Seider was outplayed by Bjornfot?

At least we know you can be objective and give up on your shitty narrative after a season where people can actually watch him LOL

 

[Frk It]

People are doing victory laps after an AHL season? One in which he was outplayed by a defenseman taken 16 spots lower (the difference between 6 and 16 is immense).
AHL Stats
22nd overall, Bjornfot 44 games 6-13-19 +13 (#1 on a bad team)
6th overall, Seider 49 games 2-20-22 -5

The only D I absolutely would have taken over Seider was Broberg, and that's based largely on a single tournament viewing.
But I wouldn't have gone with defense this year.

Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six.

I had Cozens and Zegras ahead of both.
I had Krebs and Newhook ahead of Seider. I had Spencer Knight ahead of Seider.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd change any of those rankings right now.

Did you post your draft board at all on here? I’d check the thread TZE posted, but the search function is down.

Only asking because I fee like there is a lot of revisionist history going on in this post.

 

[Red Stanley]

At this point in time the Seider pick looks like a stroke of genius.

 

[lomekian]

People are doing victory laps after an AHL season? One in which he was outplayed by a defenseman taken 16 spots lower (the difference between 6 and 16 is immense).
AHL Stats
22nd overall, Bjornfot 44 games 6-13-19 +13 (#1 on a bad team)
6th overall, Seider 49 games 2-20-22 -5

The only D I absolutely would have taken over Seider was Broberg, and that's based largely on a single tournament viewing.
But I wouldn't have gone with defense this year.

Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six.

I had Cozens and Zegras ahead of both.
I had Krebs and Newhook ahead of Seider. I had Spencer Knight ahead of Seider.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd change any of those rankings right now.

I like Bjornfot, but he can't match Seider's physical game. I could certainly have gone for Zegras and Cozens, and I liked Newhook, but was no more sure on him than Seider. Knight is great, but I'm kinda anti a goalie that high.

I'm happy with our boy. If his physical game translates up the ranks, alongside his skating and breakout passing, he could be a cornerstone of this roster for 15 years. We certainly haven'y had anything like him in a while. This is the year to go fwd for sure.

 

[MBH]

I like Bjornfot, but he can't match Seider's physical game. I could certainly have gone for Zegras and Cozens, and I liked Newhook, but was no more sure on him than Seider. Knight is great, but I'm kinda anti a goalie that high.

I'm happy with our boy. If his physical game translates up the ranks, alongside his skating and breakout passing, he could be a cornerstone of this roster for 15 years. We certainly haven'y had anything like him in a while. This is the year to go fwd for sure.

I like Seider too.
I just think, as I did then, he was a reach at 6.

 

[rawraw]

I like Seider too.
I just think, as I did then, he was a reach at 6.

It's tough to get a Seider type of player outside of the top-10. You are overrating Broberg (because of his skating) and underrating Seider. People are still sleeping on this kid, especially if you take Spencer Knight ahead of him.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's tough to get a Seider type of player outside of the top-10. You are overrating Broberg (because of his skating) and underrating Seider. People are still sleeping on this kid, especially if you take Spencer Knight ahead of him.

I like both of those other players a lot, it is pretty early in this process.

But for instance I still watch Zegras who a lot of people like and ask how much of that really translates up? It is fun at the junior and college level, but I don't see those plays working a lot at the NHL level, something the more talented Hughes is trying to work his way through this year for instance.

But one year out Seider couldn't have done much more. He has proven to be worthy of his draft slot, it is on us to keep developing him correctly and maximize him as a player.

One of the reasons I liked the Seider pick is that I liked Broberg a lot. I think they profiled well as players, I still believe Broberg has a slightly better ceiling and I expect NA ice lends itself to his game more than Sweden but it will be interesting to see how he does in year 2 next year in the SHL. But that big bodied fluid skater has a lot of potential in the NHL, it was what intrigued me about both and had me keeping them in a conversation for the best long-term d-man in their draft. I do think it will ultimately be Broberg, though I hope it can be Seider.

 

[rawraw]

I like both of those other players a lot, it is pretty early in this process.

But for instance I still watch Zegras who a lot of people like and ask how much of that really translates up? It is fun at the junior and college level, but I don't see those plays working a lot at the NHL level, something the more talented Hughes is trying to work his way through this year for instance.

But one year out Seider couldn't have done much more. He has proven to be worthy of his draft slot, it is on us to keep developing him correctly and maximize him as a player.

One of the reasons I liked the Seider pick is that I liked Broberg a lot. I think they profiled well as players, I still believe Broberg has a slightly better ceiling and I expect NA ice lends itself to his game more than Sweden but it will be interesting to see how he does in year 2 next year in the SHL. But that big bodied fluid skater has a lot of potential in the NHL, it was what intrigued me about both and had me keeping them in a conversation for the best long-term d-man in their draft. I do think it will ultimately be Broberg, though I hope it can be Seider.

There is a lot to like about Broberg. His speed, skating and offensive flair are indeed impressive. He has very good skills, great size combined with excellent skating, but his IQ in the d zone leave a lot to be desired. His decision making in particular under pressure.
If I'm picking at #6 and I'm picking a dman, I want that dman to have defence as one of his strong suits.
A dman with questionable defence isn't something I'd take within the top 10 if I'm picking a dman, no matter how big and skilled they are offensively.
Seiders hockey IQ will be the difference here down the road.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There is a lot to like about Broberg. His speed, skating and offensive flair are indeed impressive. He has very good skills, great size combined with excellent skating, but his IQ in the d zone leave a lot to be desired. His decision making in particular under pressure.
If I'm picking at #6 and I'm picking a dman, I want that dman to have defence as one of his strong suits.
A dman with questionable defence isn't something I'd take within the top 10 if I'm picking a dman, no matter how big and skilled they are offensively.
Seiders hockey IQ will be the difference here down the road.

I get the point, but a lot of D-man go in the top 10 because of their offense in front of their defense. I would argue Byram is the third best defensively of the three guys that went in the top 10 last year. Morgan Rielly is still a bad defensive player as another top 10 pick to mention, that isn't where his value is.

All these guys bring different things to the table. I do think Seider is even more physical than we thought and I actually thought he was plenty physical entering draft night. Still he has a mean streak that was hard to identify that well, it lines up with the Carlo comparisons. He likes the NA game even more than the European game and I am interested if Broberg is similar. Like how he usually picks up his play internationally traditionally he is a guy that likes more pace. Mo likes more pace and speed, there are guys that are more suited to NA hockey than European hockey and vice-a-versa. Broberg's biggest problem for me is chasing on European ice, it isn't something that is really taught over here, just like I think Seider actually likes that they have to come into the muck with him more often or the way teams play up the boards in NA, it suits his game and brings even more bite to it in my opinion.

Broberg is going to have a long runway with an additional year in Sweden and likely in a couple years trying to hyper pressure Broberg comes with the fact he might beat you around the corner and now you have a top 10 NHL back-end skater breaking into the open with the best player in the world. I mean the NHL has robust forechecks, but you really need to be careful loading up on it with McDavid and Draisaitl up the ice, it is a part of what has eliminated this issue for Nurse that used to struggle with it. Tough to exert pressure from your backfoot, in that sense I really do think Broberg is going to his best possible situation. Holland will be slow with him and he is likely going to the kind of team that makes attacking him particularly troubling especially if he can progress a little which I think he will.

 

[MTU hockey]

I'll admit I originally thought that Seider was quite a reach immediately following the draft, he seemed like a pretty high floor low ceiling guy but once I say him in the prospects tournament and preseason I've changed my mind. At the same time after those first 5 picks in the draft there wasn't anyone that really excited me at #6, everyone left on the board had pretty big question marks on either their ceiling(Cozens, Krebs, Newhook, Podkolzin?) or their floor(Zegras, Broberg). I thought Seider at the very least proved that he was a worthy selection at the 6th spot.

I see Parayko thrown around as a good comparable for potential but I'll throw out my own since Seider doesn't have a booming slapper, a physical Hampus Lindholm (also a bit of a surprise pick at #6). To me Seider has the potential to have the same impact at the NHL level, solid 2 way guy that'll play both PP and PK and log over 22+ minutes a night. He might only be a 2nd unit PP guy in the NHL but if he can shut down the opposition while providing a physical element and chipping in ~30 points a season thats absolutely worth a top 10 pick to me. There's always going to be players that outplay their draft slot down the line, but I don't think we'll be outraged over this draft 10 years down the road.

 

[rawraw]

I get the point, but a lot of D-man go in the top 10 because of their offense in front of their defense. I would argue Byram is the third best defensively of the three guys that went in the top 10 last year. Morgan Rielly is still a bad defensive player as another top 10 pick to mention, that isn't where his value is.

All these guys bring different things to the table. I do think Seider is even more physical than we thought and I actually thought he was plenty physical entering draft night. Still he has a mean streak that was hard to identify that well, it lines up with the Carlo comparisons. He likes the NA game even more than the European game and I am interested if Broberg is similar. Like how he usually picks up his play internationally traditionally he is a guy that likes more pace. Mo likes more pace and speed, there are guys that are more suited to NA hockey than European hockey and vice-a-versa. Broberg's biggest problem for me is chasing on European ice, it isn't something that is really taught over here, just like I think Seider actually likes that they have to come into the muck with him more often or the way teams play up the boards in NA, it suits his game and brings even more bite to it in my opinion.

Broberg is going to have a long runway with an additional year in Sweden and likely in a couple years trying to hyper pressure Broberg comes with the fact he might beat you around the corner and now you have a top 10 NHL back-end skater breaking into the open with the best player in the world. I mean the NHL has robust forechecks, but you really need to be careful loading up on it with McDavid and Draisaitl up the ice, it is a part of what has eliminated this issue for Nurse that used to struggle with it. Tough to exert pressure from your backfoot, in that sense I really do think Broberg is going to his best possible situation. Holland will be slow with him and he is likely going to the kind of team that makes attacking him particularly troubling especially if he can progress a little which I think he will.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess. In my opinion, Seider's flaws (questionable offensive upside) won't stop him from reaching his potential, whereas I think Broberg's flaws will stop him from reaching his potential, at the next level.
Don't get me wrong, I do hope that he reaches his fullest potential and becomes a very good player for the Oilers. I just believe he lacks that type of hockey IQ in order to match the rest of his skill set.

 

[MBH]

It's tough to get a Seider type of player outside of the top-10. You are overrating Broberg (because of his skating) and underrating Seider. People are still sleeping on this kid, especially if you take Spencer Knight ahead of him.

Well, that's your opinion.
And that's great.
I think Seider is safer that Broberg, but Broberg has an incredible toolset that we might not see put together until he's 23-24.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Well, that's your opinion.
And that's great.
I think Seider is safer that Broberg, but Broberg has an incredible toolset that we might not see put together until he's 23-24.

So Seider showing he's #1 caliber D in the AHL at 18 is what in comparison to Broberg at 23-24 years old?
What is your point here? That in 5 years if Broberg is better than Seider you can say I told ya so? But I bet that if Seider reaches his potential you will eat zero crow. Your hot takes on this are simply so you can feel superior IF, IF, IF those opinions turn out to be true, BUT you'll just say you're happy that Seider is the real deal when he proves it and forget about all this garbage you're spouting right now.

I'll make a username bet with you right now. If Seider is better than Cozens, Krebs, Zegres, Newhook, Knight and Broberg in the 2021-2022 (NHL) season you have to pick a username of my choice and vice versa. Deal?

 

[MBH]

Did you post your draft board at all on here? I’d check the thread TZE posted, but the search function is down.

Only asking because I fee like there is a lot of revisionist history going on in this post.

Wasn't on the board.
Here's what I posted a couple days after the draft, with the benefit of hindsight (after seeing some of the guys the Red Wings picked, I decided I liked them.)
The only Red Wings pick who was on my list ahead of the draft was Johansson.
6 1 Dylan Cozens
35 2 Jackson Lacombe (D)
54 2 Pavel Dorofeyev (W)
60 2 Albert Johansson (D)
66 3 Albin Grewe (W)
97 4 Ethan Phillips (C)
128 5 Leevi Altonen (W)
159 6 Elmer Soderblom (F)
177 6 Gustav Berglund (D)
190 7 Kirill Tyutyayev (F)
191 7 Dustin Wolf (G)

 

[TheMule93]

So Seider showing he's #1 caliber D in the AHL at 18 is what in comparison to Broberg at 23-24 years old?
What is your point here? That in 5 years if Broberg is better than Seider you can say I told ya so? But I bet that if Seider reaches his potential you will eat zero crow. Your hot takes on this are simply so you can feel superior IF, IF, IF those opinions turn out to be true, BUT you'll just say you're happy that Seider is the real deal when he proves it and forget about all this garbage you're spouting right now.

I'll make a username bet with you right now. If Seider is better than Cozens, Krebs, Zegres, Newhook, Knight and Broberg in the 2021-2022 (NHL) season you have to pick a username of my choice and vice versa. Deal?

how will you objectively determine who is better?

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

how will you objectively determine who is better?

Corsi / Fenwick, TOI, Points, Hits, +/-, role on team.

 

[Frk It]

Wasn't on the board.
Here's what I posted a couple days after the draft, with the benefit of hindsight (after seeing some of the guys the Red Wings picked, I decided I liked them.)
The only Red Wings pick who was on my list ahead of the draft was Johansson.
6 1 Dylan Cozens
35 2 Jackson Lacombe (D)
54 2 Pavel Dorofeyev (W)
60 2 Albert Johansson (D)
66 3 Albin Grewe (W)
97 4 Ethan Phillips (C)
128 5 Leevi Altonen (W)
159 6 Elmer Soderblom (F)
177 6 Gustav Berglund (D)
190 7 Kirill Tyutyayev (F)
191 7 Dustin Wolf (G)

I really liked Cozens, I believe I said he was a top 5 guy all year. He also would have been my pick at 6. But I think it is a stretch and a half where you said "Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six." There were not multiple blue chip center prospects available at 6... unless you think last year was a truly exceptional draft class.

 

[MBH]

I really liked Cozens, I believe I said he was a top 5 guy all year. He also would have been my pick at 6. But I think it is a stretch and a half where you said "Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six." There were not multiple blue chip center prospects available at 6... unless you think last year was a truly exceptional draft class.

I think last year was for centers what the year before was for defense.
2019
C: Hughes, Dach, Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras, Krebs, Newhook
D: Byram, Seider, Broberg, Soderstrom, York

vs
2018
D: Dahlin, Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, Smith
C: Kotkaniemi, Hayton, Dellandrea, Kupari

We needed both Cs and D.
So the smart move would have been to draft D in 2018 and Cs in 2019.
But Holland f***ed that up and then Stevie, IMO, did the same.

In 2018, due to the lack of quality Cs, guys like Kotkaniemi and Hayton went higher than projected. In 2019, due to a lack of quality D, Seider and Broberg went higher than projected.

 

[newfy]

I really liked Cozens, I believe I said he was a top 5 guy all year. He also would have been my pick at 6. But I think it is a stretch and a half where you said "Yeah, we needed defense, but I had so many potential blue-chip centers on the board that I couldn't justify Seider or Broberg at six." There were not multiple blue chip center prospects available at 6... unless you think last year was a truly exceptional draft class.

Not to mentoin there is/was a bunch of talk about Cozens being a winger in the NHL. Even his really solid WJC this year he was playing wing. Zegras exact same thing. Not a sure thing at center and still isnt. The next drafted, for sure center at the next level was Krebs at 17. Newhook, Cozens and Zegras were all talked about as possible wingers. Youre not a blue chip center if people arent even sure youll be a center at the next level. Lots of revisionist history going on

 

[Frk It]

I think last year was for centers what the year before was for defense.
2019
C: Hughes, Dach, Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras, Krebs, Newhook
D: Byram, Seider, Broberg, Soderstrom, York

vs
2018
D: Dahlin, Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, Smith
C: Kotkaniemi, Hayton, Dellandrea, Kupari

We needed both Cs and D.
So the smart move would have been to draft D in 2018 and Cs in 2019.
But Holland f***ed that up and then Stevie, IMO, did the same.

In 2018, due to the lack of quality Cs, guys like Kotkaniemi and Hayton went higher than projected. In 2019, due to a lack of quality D, Seider and Broberg went higher than projected.

If Zadina and Seider were looking like a lost cause, fine. But I think they both did some encouraging things over this last year and still have plenty of potential. So I don't really see the need to lament what we did just yet, but to each their own.

Also we needed everything going into this last draft, so I do not think Yzerman took Seider just because he was a defenseman.

 

[MBH]

If Zadina and Seider were looking like a lost cause, fine. But I think they both did some encouraging things over this last year and still have plenty of potential. So I don't really see the need to lament what we did just yet, but to each their own.

Also we needed everything going into this last draft, so I do not think Yzerman took Seider just because he was a defenseman.

I don't think they are lost causes.
I just don't think we got best bang for our buck.

We needed an elite D and elite C more than anything.
2018 was a draft rich in defense.
We took a winger.
2019 was a draft rich in centers.
We took a D.

It's not hard to understand why I don't think we were well served these last two years.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think they are lost causes.
I just don't think we got best bang for our buck.

We needed an elite D and elite C more than anything.
2018 was a draft rich in defense.
We took a winger.
2019 was a draft rich in centers.
We took a D.

It's not hard to understand why I don't think we were well served these last two years.

Understand the thought process.... just find it very, very premature.

 

[Dotter]

Center depth is better this draft than 19 draft. Picking Seider #6 in '19 was a bold (now looks genius) move.

...with that said, depending on how the 20 draft plays out, Drysdale could very easily be the BPA. And I think you should always take BPA over need. Which is what I think Yzerman does... is he'll take the player HE (and crew) thinks is BPA. Drysdale might be our 2020 pick.

AND 2021 is supposed to be dman depth (lots of great defensemen prospects, apparently)... which means Yzerman could, very well, pick 3 dmen in a row with his 1st pick. Wow, will that be interesting!

I hope Wings win the freakin Lottery!!! Or hopefully Stutzle or Byfield will be available.

 

[MBH]

Understand the thought process.... just find it very, very premature.

Well, sure.
It's my thinking is today.
Things could change in time.