Post-Game Talk: #69: Senators 2 at FLYERS 3, Monday, Mar. 11, 2019, 7:00 p.m. ET

DancingPanther

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Myers is showing us Ghost-like head fakes to get some space to skate in towards the slot. He's also got a knack for using his long reach and powerful strides to pucks alive and defend the blue line well. I'm impressed with his instincts- I remember watching Sanheim when he first came up at times be a little tentative (maybe so as to not be whipped by Hakstol? Not joking...) on some plays but Myers makes snap decisions and acts. Many times they're good decisions.

Hartman is so useful out there. Definitely brings some great energy and is up on and part of zone entries on his lines. At the very least, he's a hell of a lot more useful than Simmonds. He's a fighter along the boards.

Provorov is seriously flying the last number of games. Strong on the puck, strong on the boards, moving up on the rushes with confidence. He's back to making those subtle plays that go a long f***ing way, especially in the defensive zone.

Lindblom is the team's Provorov on offense. Neither guy is really flashy, but man are they reliable. Both players are so solid (Provorov's first half slump not withstanding) and make the subtle but immensely important plays, like moving 2 feet closer to a forward battling on the half boards as support, which Lindblom did on that play where Gudas had a good chance. He's always in an effective position, enabling him to either be the apex of a scoring chance or primarily cause one himself.

Patrick continues to learn from Jake on entries, playmaking vision, and hardnosed power hockey. You see a lot of similarities emerging. Patrick has better hair though.

Elliot again makes 2 or 3 big stops to keep the game scoreless or the team at a one goal deficit. Those are the saves that change games. Not 10 bellers, just good saves to keep it close.

I find it funny that the last however many weeks of this 18-4-2 (or whatever it is) run has coincidentally featured Hagg and AMac playing the least amount of hockey per game in their careers. What a f***ing shocker that is. f*** them both.

Sanheim was fighting it a bit tonight. Some tough puck luck and turnovers- pucks in skates, etc- but it's good to see him keep the intensity and vision up all game and not change his game. He opened up the space Laughton needed to rip that snapper on goal #3.

I only got through the first 45 minutes of game play. It was a long day today, I'm going to bed. You're all great people.

oKo4TkW.gif
 

VladDrag

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Patrick has been incredible since about the middle of January. He was really good 2nd half of his rookie season too.
He was also goo in the first 15-20 games of the season. He just had a horrible quarter to halfway season mark.

Since Jan 1st he is scoring something along the lines of 2.7 p/60 at ES, which is a very good pace.
 
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Curufinwe

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Since Hak was fired:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...meType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points

7th in points

9th in PP%

12th= in PK%

Is this all because of great goaltending? Well an ES SV% of .919 and a PK SV% of .875 since 12/17/2019 are far from being league leading numbers. They are pretty normal for a team that doesn't play like headless chickens.

For example, this season MAF has a .918 ES SV%, and that ranks him 25th equal in the league out of 54 goalies with 20 GP. His .872 on the PK ranks him 24th equal. So that's slightly better than the median.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...e=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,20&sort=evSavePctg
 
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dingbathero

No Jam? How about PB
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I understand the want for a different head coach....

This team tho is playing well under Gordon. What are the main points of contention with him NOT being here next year... why do you NOT want him here.

I have seen this team play more spirited since he took over. Systems are much better, more support throughout on the ice. Players are engaged.
 
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Curufinwe

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Most people just don't confidence in him being able to out coach other teams in the playoffs the way Q did regularly, which is fair enough.
 

deadhead

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The primary difference under Gordon is goalie play, pure and simple.
It's the reason the PK is better (check the S% for scoring and high danger scoring chances).
It's the reason the team plays with more confidence - no Mr Softee's deflating the team after they fought hard to get back into games.

Last year the team finished 34-15-7 with meh goaltending:
Elliott 17-5-1 653 - 596 .913
Neuvirth 7-2-2 294 - 269 .915
Mrazek 6-6-3 450 - 401 .891
Lyon 4-2-1 232 - 210 .905
1629 - 1476 .906

Only major changes:
1) TK, who was demoted after a slow start, was moved up to the 1st line
2) MacDonald came back in December and moved into a top 4 role
3) Patrick got healthy and moved into a 2nd line role by Spring
4) the schemes were tweaked

Ghost had 19 points in his first 22 games, so moving up with Provorov really didn't impact his scoring, Provorov had 13 points in his first 25 games, so Ghost didn't give him a boost either. No other players raised their game during the push to the playoffs.

People have agendas and ignore the facts on the ice. Hakstol wasn't a terrible coach, Gordon isn't much of an improvement.
Team has gotten top ten goaltending since January, Sanheim has stepped up since he moved up, Lindblom has steadily increased his role after his demotion, JVR got healthy, Couts got healthy, Patrick got on track.

Hart didn't start hot, 2-5-0 his first 7 starts, 187-170 .909.
Since Jan 10 (19-5-2):
Hart 11-4-0 475 - 437 .920
Elliott 5-1-1 271 - 250 .923
Talbot 1-0-0 49 - 45 .918
Stolarz 2-0-1 116 - 110 .948
911 - 842 .924
Flyers are giving up scoring chances at about the same rate under Gordon as under Hakstol, it's the goalies that have improved, not the defense.

As far as Myers, if you actually watched him since he returned, like I've said, he's had periods where he's been dominant, and periods where he's looked lost - he looked good against Ottawa, but every player should look good against Ottawa. He's learning on the job, and should be more reliable and consistent NEXT year. Right now he's still an adventure, albeit an exciting one.

We'll probably see the same with Frost next year, up and down in the fall, then at some point the light goes on.
 

dragonoffrost

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I understand the want for a different head coach....

This team tho is playing well under Gordon. What are the main points of contention with him NOT being here next year... why do you NOT want him here.

I have seen this team play more spirited since he took over. Systems are much better, more support throughout on the ice. Players are engaged.

You do realize that once Hakstol was fired it's improve or you could be next out the door...
 

kudymen

Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
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The difference between Hak and the next guy hired was basically "The last guy was eating shit. Are you also going to eat shit?"

I mean, it is an improvement once he does not eat it, but...
 

JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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The primary difference under Gordon is goalie play, pure and simple.
It's the reason the PK is better (check the S% for scoring and high danger scoring chances).
It's the reason the team plays with more confidence - no Mr Softee's deflating the team after they fought hard to get back into games.

Goaltending has been a major factor for sure, but so has ice time distribution and deployment even if the major adjustments are small in number.

More to the point, I recognize how tricky it is to try to get inside the head of a locker room, but you don’t believe at all that relieving the pressure valve of the Hakstol situation had a significant effect on morale during the transition period, extending beyond when things started going well? Forget what you think of Hakstol as a coach. I’m just talking about the atmosphere around the franchise.
 

deadhead

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Chicago fell apart under Q when Crawford got injured last year, and they have Kane, Toews, Keith and some good young players.
Crawford injured on 12/23, team was 17-13-5 (Crawford 16-9-2), afterward 16-26-5.
This year, Q 6-6-3, Colliton, 24-24-6.
Did Q forget how to coach?

Berube 29-16-4, is he a good coach?
Binnington 16-3-1 .929 since he was recalled, so 13-13-3 with the other goalies under Berube.

Coaches matter, but goalies matter more.

The key to the Flyers going forward is Hart and another young goalie emerging the next couple years ("safety in numbers" - see the Pens with MAF and Murray).
 

renberg

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If we'll make playoffs does it mean we get to keep Gordon?

View attachment 198595
Last night Kevin Weekes was singing the praise of the Flyers and still believes that they can make the POs. He gave credit to Hextall for amassing prospects and clearing cap space but after that, nothing. Weekes felt that the flyers FO did what had to be done but did it too slowly. If it had been done two or three weeks earlier, the Flyers would have the 5 or 6 more points to be in the hunt to be in the POs not fighting to scrape their way into them.
Of course this isn't news to many of us here but it sure was nice to hear an outsider see things the way that we do. The fault for the Flyers FO this year was that they gave Hexy/Hak too much of a chance. Just maybe Scott and Holmgren deserve credit for finally stepping in and doing what they did. If not, the club would be fighting for Hughes or Kappo instead of a PO spot.
 

Striiker

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Jun 2, 2013
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Goaltending has been a major factor for sure, but so has ice time distribution and deployment even if the major adjustments are small in number.

More to the point, I recognize how tricky it is to try to get inside the head of a locker room, but you don’t believe at all that relieving the pressure valve of the Hakstol situation had a significant effect on morale during the transition period, extending beyond when things started going well? Forget what you think of Hakstol as a coach. I’m just talking about the atmosphere around the franchise.
Players even came out and said how nice it was to have a coach who communicates with them, unlike Hakstol.

Plus, Gordon actually playing guys like Sanheim and Lindblom, while using trash like Hagg and MacDonald less, has made things easier on the goalies too. Same thing with not going into the shell for the last 10 minutes of every game and forcing the goalie to get peppered by shots.

It's just too obvious that Hakstol did so many things wrong and merely getting rid of him has improved the team. He had tons of choices and typically picked wrong.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Goaltending has been a major factor for sure, but so has ice time distribution and deployment even if the major adjustments are small in number.

More to the point, I recognize how tricky it is to try to get inside the head of a locker room, but you don’t believe at all that relieving the pressure valve of the Hakstol situation had a significant effect on morale during the transition period, extending beyond when things started going well? Forget what you think of Hakstol as a coach. I’m just talking about the atmosphere around the franchise.

Changing coaches often helps when a team is in a funk, which is why you should be wary of evaluating a coach off that rebound.
Berube got the Flyers to the playoffs, and is getting the Blues to the playoffs, both in rebound situations.
Does that make Berube a good coach? Lavi a bad coach?

People tend to go to extremes - I see little evidence of "miracle" coaches in ice hockey (NFL is a different matter, Belicheck is maybe the best of all time).
What's more common are bad coaches (Weight last year with the Islanders), and bad fits (Lavi his last couple years in Philly).
Sometimes the fit is scheme v players, sometimes the fit is personality v locker room.
I think Hakstol's personality wasn't a good fit for a team in a funk.
I also won't be surprised to see Hakstol land somewhere and do well, because coaches often learn from their first gig and improve.
 

Flyrs21

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Dec 17, 2006
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You say the young guys started playing better when they were moved up after their demotions, lindbolm, sanheim, patrick. But the reason they were demoted was because Hakstol thought Weisse, Lehtera, Weal and Macdonald were better options giving them more minutes and playing them in crucial parts of the game when they should of been on the bench. Mostly all of Hakstols pets are gone fron the organization.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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At this rate, it's hard to argue against Gordon being the coach until we hit a major snag. Night and day performance from his team compared to Hak and he doesn't use his player TOI like an idiot.

He could be another Bylsma, but hey even Bylsma was a passenger for 1 Cup at least. Get out of our young talent's way and we'll get success with Gordon potentially.
 
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deadhead

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Last night Kevin Weekes was singing the praise of the Flyers and still believes that they can make the POs. He gave credit to Hextall for amassing prospects and clearing cap space but after that, nothing. Weekes felt that the flyers FO did what had to be done but did it too slowly. If it had been done two or three weeks earlier, the Flyers would have the 5 or 6 more points to be in the hunt to be in the POs not fighting to scrape their way into them.
.

Yes, if only they could have accelerated Hart's development and gotten Elliott healthy a few weeks before.

What Weekes is missing was they were playing Picard and Neuvirth in Nov/December, and Hart started slow in the NHL before he took the next step.
Pickard 11/15 to 11/24: 1-3-1
Neuvrith 12-9 to 1/3: 1-4-1
Lyon 11/21, 12/15: 0-1-0
Hart 12/18 -1/7: 2-4-1
McKenna 1/8: 0-1-0
Doubt changing coaches would have made much of a difference.

Weekes is simply ignoring that the goalie situation was a black hole from mid-November when Elliott went down until Hart hit his stride in January.
Was Elliott overworked? If playing 7 games in 21 days (.944 Sv%) gets a goalie injured, the problem is probably the goalie.
 

deadhead

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You say the young guys started playing better when they were moved up after their demotions, lindbolm, sanheim, patrick. But the reason they were demoted was because Hakstol thought Weisse, Lehtera, Weal and Macdonald were better options giving them more minutes and playing them in crucial parts of the game when they should of been on the bench. Mostly all of Hakstols pets are gone fron the organization.

I doubt Hakstol thought they were better, maybe you don't follow the NHL, but find me a veteran coach who hasn't demoted a top young talent at times to try to get them to play more disciplined, look at Laine in Vancouver, for example. Young players often resist coaching, get into mental funks, or just drift for a while because they're not used to playing at a high level over 80 games against top competition (SHL season is much shorter, juniors you can float through half the games on your schedule, etc.).

And it's not surprising that young players often respond to demotions by playing better when they subsequently get promoted - the ones that don't get their wake up call are the ones soon traded and replaced by another young player with more fire in the belly or fewer bats in the belfry.
 

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