Prospect Info: 68th overall: Vancouver selects Tyler Madden (son of John, Northeastern University commit)

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Hodgy

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Feb 23, 2012
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What's your definition of core pieces? A healthy Baertschi would probably be a core piece in the Jannik Hansen category of core players. The same applies to others if they work out. It's the same with the draft. The Kings targeted Roland McKeown. He hasn't played a single NHL game this season. I would be happy if Gadjovich can be as good as Baertschi at 23 years of age.

A good example is Virtanen. Would you trade him for the 53rd overall in this year's draft? I would keep him.

This is a pretty bad way of thinking about it and what led Benning to make so many poor trades. It ignores the fact that one out every 10, or 15, or whatever, second round picks will turn into first line talents. So while you will always be able to trade a pick for a player that is better than the average player picked with that pick, it ignores the fact that you are essentially giving up a chance at a truly elite player. Not only that, but Baertschi is the result of this strategy when it works. When it doesn't, you get bad players like Vey, Clendenning, etc., who didn't have the potential upside of the pick traded at the time they were acquired, but also never panned out. So essentially, the worst of both worlds.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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This is a pretty bad way of thinking about it and what led Benning to make so many poor trades. It ignores the fact that one out every 10, or 15, or whatever, second round picks will turn into first line talents. So while you will always be able to trade a pick for a player that is better than the average player picked with that pick, it ignores the fact that you are essentially giving up a chance at a truly elite player. Not only that, but Baertschi is the result of this strategy when it works. When it doesn't, you get bad players like Vey, Clendenning, etc., who didn't have the potential upside of the pick traded at the time they were acquired, but also never panned out. So essentially, the worst of both worlds.

This is a pretty bad way of thinking about it. What you should be doing is analyze the asset value of the draft pick and the quality of prospect that you think you can draft with that pick against the quality of player coming back. It is stupid to value a 2nd round pick based on the odds of getting a 1st line talent out of the pick when you pegged the odds as 1 out of ever 10 or 15. And there is a world of difference between a draft pick in the early to mid 30s and post 50th pick. The former is closer to getting a late 1st round pick while the latter is close to getting a 3rd round pick.

At the other day you are making a decision based on established and perceived value. If there is a prospect you really like whom you think a can develop into a top 4 Dman or potential 1st line player and is likely available at the time you pick then you should value that pick more highly than if what’s left is a player you think will be available in the later rounds but you will draft him anyways because he is BPA (e.g. Brisbois). The same philosophy applies to trading up and trading down. The value of trading up or down one spot can drastically differ depending on which prospects are available to be selected.
 

DFAC

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Jan 19, 2008
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Wow! In the Hockey News re-draft, Madden rockets up from the third round all the way to the bottom of the first round. The biggest riser, year over year in the entire draft.

But really underscores the folly of trading draft picks in the first place. Who knows how many Maddens' the Canucks might have uncovered if they hadn't traded picks for the likes of Sutter, Gudbranson and Pouliot.

Someone should dig up the draft day thread and see all the people freaking out about not picking Jake Wise (who went one pick after Madden) :huh::laugh:
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Seems apparent that as this season unfolds, both Madden and Hoglander were legitimate first round draft picks, who fell because of their size basically. In fact I've already seen some 2018 're-drafts' on the Web that have Madden as high as 30-31 in the first round. And that was after his freshman season at Northeastern and before his current torrid pace.

If he keeps this up, he might climb even higher in the post-draft rankings.
 

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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Seems apparent that as this season unfolds, both Madden and Hoglander were legitimate first round draft picks, who fell because of their size basically. In fact I've already seen some 2018 're-drafts' on the Web that have Madden as high as 30-31 in the first round. And that was after his freshman season at Northeastern and before his current torrid pace.

If he keeps this up, he might climb even higher in the post-draft rankings.
Easy breasy in the top half of the first round in a redraft. EASY BREASY
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Seems apparent that as this season unfolds, both Madden and Hoglander were legitimate first round draft picks, who fell because of their size basically. In fact I've already seen some 2018 're-drafts' on the Web that have Madden as high as 30-31 in the first round. And that was after his freshman season at Northeastern and before his current torrid pace.

If he keeps this up, he might climb even higher in the post-draft rankings.

Well Hoglander was a potential late 1st round pick. Madden wasn't. Madden didn't exactly have a good eligible year compared to others. He was kind of like Gaudette.
 
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Spectrefire

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Jan 3, 2013
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Someone should dig up the draft day thread and see all the people freaking out about not picking Jake Wise (who went one pick after Madden) :huh::laugh:

There were some real winning takes during that thread lol:

Tyler Madden....Really?


Trade Hutton for a pick to grab Wise

Well, that's another disappointing pick.

So dumb, take a small C and then have Wise go the very next pick to Chicago- good job JB.

We dont take fallers, for whatever reason, if other teams pass on them, benning does not take them.

Chicago takes Wise. Why do I feel that will haunt us for years?

Ughhh not liking day 2 so far.

Can't believe we let Jake Wise slip past us.

Thanks for gifting Jake Wise to Chicago, Jim Benning. I'm so ****ing proud of you.

Not thrilled with that pick with Wise on the board. And now they don't have a pick until 130 because of the Pouliot trade..

Man, this draft is like the sum of all fears.

1. #1D who'll likely need sheltering
2. hitter who already separated his shoulder. Really hope the last name didn't factor into it.
3. Now a 152lbs bottom sixer

Benning and Bracket are really burning through that previously built feel good draft capital.

Could have had: Bouchard, Wilde, Wise
Get: Hughes, Woo, Madden

Man not one of the guys I would have taken with who was on the board still went but it's not a terrible draft.

The Madden pick is maddening...

They picked well in the first two rounds and then...
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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Well Hoglander was a potential late 1st round pick. Madden wasn't. Madden didn't exactly have a good eligible year compared to others. He was kind of like Gaudette.

yep. a guy with room to develop as i recall brackett's take.
 
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WetcoastOrca

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Jun 3, 2011
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I tend to give Brackett the benefit of doubt on these US picks. Sure, not every pick will pan out but his track record with post first round picks is impressive. I’m confident he looks at skill and upside without getting hung up on size. Looks like he may have found another diamond in the rough with Madden by ignoring his slight frame and looking at his skill and tenacity and potential upside.
 

Hansen

tyler motte simp
Oct 12, 2011
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There were some real winning takes during that thread lol:
:nucks

2014/15
Nicklas Jensen (partial NHL season)
Linden Vey

2015/16
Bo Horvat
Hunter Shinkaruk
Brendan Gaunce
Frank Corrado
Alex Grenier
Henrik Tommernes
Jake Virtanen

2016/17
Cole Cassels
Nikita Tryamkin
Ben Hutton
Jared McCan
Dane Fox


The injury and surgery almost guarantees he won't. He needs to ease into playing against men first, otherwise throwing him right into the Western Conference is almost a guarantee for another big injury. The Canucks have zero reason to rush his development. Utica is going to be a very interesting team next season and Travis Green is a fantastic teacher. I imagine the Canucks will take every opportunity to put their prospects under his coaching.

and you had Dane Fox and Cole Cassels making the NHL, crow is a low hanging fruit for dinner when talking about late picks and dime a dozen prospects
 

Spectrefire

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Jan 3, 2013
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and you had Dane Fox and Cole Cassels making the NHL, crow is a low hanging fruit for dinner when talking about late picks and dime a dozen prospects

I think there's a bit of a difference between being optimistic about a drafted player, or acting like the world is ending because an NHL team didn't pick a player that you know, from your decades of scouting experience, is going to be a success.
 

Orca Smash

Registered User
Feb 9, 2012
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There were some real winning takes during that thread lol:

So my take benning does not seem interested in fallers was lol worthy?

I also said I was happy to give madden a chance and I trust judd brackett, I can dig that take up as well for you. I even cite often on here (I just did a few weeks ago) I trust brackett now if he made the podkolzin pick precisely because of tyler madden and how myself and others underestimated him. I would have taken caufield.

Here was a comment I made in the draft day thread, its very easy to snipe opinions and laugh about them, especially if you have none of your own. Someone once said to me on here he respects people who draw a line in the sand and are willing to stand by an opinion right or wrong. You quoted some people I have respect for who do this as a hobby, nobody makes perfect picks.

Hughes was my guy and I stand by that as an amazing pick, the rest are not guys I would have taken.

feebster likes utunen and I will also give brackett the benefit of the doubt if he wanted madden.
 
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Orca Smash

Registered User
Feb 9, 2012
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I think there's a bit of a difference between being optimistic about a drafted player, or acting like the world is ending because an NHL team didn't pick a player that you know, from your decades of scouting experience, is going to be a success.

So out of curiosity the world was ending based on my post's in that thread? Okay then.... In-fact i even said I trust the the scout in this instance wanting madden.

We could also dig up the Juolevi draft thread where many hated the pick and wanted tkachuk. Those people were correct at that draft over decades of scouting experience. Drafting is not easy and its not black and white.
 
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