Post-Game Talk: #67: Hurricanes 1 at FLYERS 4, Thursday, Mar. 5, 2020, 7:00 p.m. ET

[Alex K]

It is broken. That's why it should be fixed.

If your car gets a flat tire you change it, right? You don't wait until the entire car won't move.

Same thing here, Hagg is a flat tire. I don't want to wait until the team breaks down to change him. You can still win (drive) in spite of him, but why deal with it when there's an easy and immediate fix available?

It's not like you're replacing a part with the same but a better one. Ghost is a completely different type of player. On paper you will upgrade your position and transition game as well as PP but lose in physical play, defence in the crease and board battles. We don't know what conditions he's in, will he play up to his strenghs or will his weaknesses be exposed. In such a tight race, where every point counts, AV obviously doesn't want to risk, which is understandable.

 

[Striiker]

It's not like you're replacing a part with the same but a better one. Ghost is a completely different type of player. On paper you will upgrade your position and transition game as well as PP but lose in physical play, defence in the crease and board battles. We don't know what conditions he's in, will he play up to his strenghs or will his weaknesses be exposed. In such a tight race, where every point counts, AV obviously doesn't want to risk, which is understandable.

This isn't a realistic concern. Gostisbehere is on a completely different level than Hagg... stylistic difference/preferences are nothing compared to the massive leap in quality.

It's like worrying about taking out Stewart to play Giroux.

 

[Alex K]

This isn't a realistic concern. Gostisbehere is on a completely different level than Hagg... stylistic difference/preferences are nothing compared to the massive leap in quality.

It's like worrying about taking out Stewart to play Giroux.

Obviously Ghost's current quality concerns AV.

 

[Striiker]

Obviously Ghost's current quality concerns AV.

He's been misjudging and misusing Ghost all year, so if true the problem is almost certainly AV not Ghost.

Or he might just severely overrate Hagg.

 

[ajgoal]

I think the answer is more likely the "If it's not broke..." mentality. They put Ghost in as soon as he was deemed healthy, but he was still having pain and came out the next game. He hasn't played since. If there was something in Gostisbehere's game that he didn't like, he wouldn't have played him as soon as he was available, despite Hagg being in the middle of his goalless-against streak. It's highly unlikely that AV's opinion of him changed that significantly in one game where the knee was still bothering him. It's much more likely that the team is winning, and he doesn't want to mess with it.

 

[landsbergfan]

The winning streak didn't prevent the team from making deadline acquisitions and inserting them into the lineup immediately, so I am not sure what you're trying to say here.

Somehow Farabee entered the lineup and two lines changed and they still won!

 

[bobbythebrain]

I think the answer is more likely the "If it's not broke..." mentality. They put Ghost in as soon as he was deemed healthy, but he was still having pain and came out the next game. He hasn't played since. If there was something in Gostisbehere's game that he didn't like, he wouldn't have played him as soon as he was available, despite Hagg being in the middle of his goalless-against streak. It's highly unlikely that AV's opinion of him changed that significantly in one game where the knee was still bothering him. It's much more likely that the team is winning, and he doesn't want to mess with it.

And the healthy scratches? The pp time taken away from him?

He's been handled peculiar all year.

The whole "injury" is beyond logic too. It came outta nowhere, then suddenly he needs minor surgery to fix a nagging problem. 10 day healing was reported. Happened over ASG. Yet it turned into months and a stint in the AHL?
How much anyone want to bet JVR doesn't do a "conditioning stint"

Ghost is as good as gone imo

 

[905PENS]

Unless the Pens or Flyers get caught by two Wild Card teams that can't happen.

This is true haha. Ugh I dislike the playoff format, the older way was vastly better

 

[kudymen]

What I love about the "goner" meme is that one day it will actually be right. It's just hilarious that it takes literally years of "goneeerrrr" talk for it to even become possibility

It's become a real f***ing meme that just helps you spot the actual hive

 

[Striiker]

What I love about the "goner" meme is that one day it will actually be right. It's just hilarious that it takes literally years of "goneeerrrr" talk for it to even become possibility

It's become a real f***ing meme that just helps you spot the actual hive

Yeah, but JVR won't get a conditioning stint for a broken finger so that's proof. After all, that's the exact same thing as a leg injury, which was then re-aggravated in the first game back and needed to be confirmed as healed.

 

[Tripod]

Ghost doesn't do this!

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Ghost doesn't do this!

i see Hagg def. attended Meatpigs day school on how to eat fist sammichs..

dude got served plenty

 

[Tripod]

i see Hagg def. attended Meatpigs day school on how to eat fist sammichs..

dude got served plenty

Yet he faired better against Wilson than he did against Kotk.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yet he faired better against Wilson than he did against Kotk.

Like the rest of his career, the bar couldn't have been any lower.

 

[flyersnorth]

And the healthy scratches? The pp time taken away from him?

He's been handled peculiar all year.

The whole "injury" is beyond logic too. It came outta nowhere, then suddenly he needs minor surgery to fix a nagging problem. 10 day healing was reported. Happened over ASG. Yet it turned into months and a stint in the AHL?
How much anyone want to bet JVR doesn't do a "conditioning stint"

Ghost is as good as gone imo

It’s really bizarre. Ghost has game-breaking talent, so it’s not about his abilities per se. I don’t think you’d find a single sane person claim that Hagg is a better player overall than Ghost.

I would say there’s a near 100% chance Ghost plays before the end of the season. I hope he comes in and plays great.

Whoever is in the lineup, I love this team regardless. They are fun to watch and have pretty slick chemistry together.

LGF!!

 

[bobbythebrain]

Leg injuries are common in the NHL, from bruises, fractures and tears, as is players to comeback immediately to the team after recovery the same season

Conditioning stints are generally for less important players it seems, or players who have missed a ton of hockey and unable to practice, and need to get into game shape...hence the word "conditioning"

So what's funny is when Ghost was playing, a so called Ghost expert claimed Ghost looked awesome and great. He even looked awesome and great despite being paired w/ Hagg. Anyone who said otherwise was deemed lying and untruthful
So it's funny how the awesome and great looking Ghost, suddenly the narrative has been stretched to he's been hurt all along. I seem to recall Jake and G playing through injuries, and was as obvious as can be...they didn't look awesome and great

But now the nagging injury that Ghost was playing through while looking awesome and great mind you, and carrying Hagg, and only needed a 10 day procedure, has turned into a conditioning stint

 

[bobbythebrain]

It’s really bizarre. Ghost has game-breaking talent, so it’s not about his abilities per se. I don’t think you’d find a single sane person claim that Hagg is a better player overall than Ghost.

I would say there’s a near 100% chance Ghost plays before the end of the season. I hope he comes in and plays great.

Whoever is in the lineup, I love this team regardless. They are fun to watch and have pretty slick chemistry together.

LGF!!

I love Ghost. I wish he was on the team..over Hagg.

But clearly something is up. I also think he gets back in this season but it also seems he is on a very short leash w/ AV for some reason

It will be bizarre if he's not traded in the summer imo...but it will be way more bizarre if he doesn't request a trade...imo

 

[Hoalexckey]

Yup, and that's the key. "At the time of the trade...".

You can also certainly see why some people would have doubted the trade when it occurred, given their results in the previous two years.

From the start of 2017-2018 until the end of 2018-2019...

At 5v5...	Niskanen	Gudas
Games played	148	147
CF%	47.79 (-1.24 rel)	50.93 (2.42 rel)
xGF%	46.57 (-1.79 rel)	50.69 (2.22 rel)
Goals against/60	2.40	2.20
Points/60	0.90	0.85

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*this was while the Caps were a much better team than the Flyers and Gudas is also younger (29 vs 33).

So either usage is the primary reason for the change this year OR we're very very lucky that Niskanen has bounced back to a version of younger self that he hadn't performed like in a long time.

I wonder how Gudas would have done on our top pair all year, with Provorov and Couturier as his most common partner and center... or how Niskanen would have done on the Caps bottom pair all year, with Siegenthaler and Eller. Maybe Niskanen still wins the comparison but it's a question worth asking.

Niskanen has been very good this year so it worked out for us in the end. But lets not pretend that there weren't perfectly valid reasons for doubt or concern before the season started. Let's also not ignore the importance of usage and teammates when judging how both played this year. Even if Niskanen is better than Gudas in a vacuum, the gap may appear larger than it actually is thanks to their current situations. We'll never know how it would be if they were flipped.

The people that were calling Niskanen and Gudas similiar players at the time of the trade, clearly didn’t know anything about his career.

In D.C he was shutdown defenseman 5v5-PK minutes only, having the toughest assignments against the very best every single night.
Before his arrival the D” was atrocious, Carlson was 28-30 points defenseman. His presence took all the pressure from Carlson shoulder, making him play against “lesser” players and helping his development. Niskanen played a major role to their success and everything he did in D.C he is doing in Philly.

It seems like Provorov is having a really good year and the defense is much better compared to last year, right? It’s not all Niskanen but it’s clear he’s a big part of it! In D.C all they talk about right now, is how bad the defense is. They thought because of his age and one down year Niskanen was done, but they were wrong! Many in D.C acknowledged the trade was a big mistake and are missing what he brought to the table.
A conversation about who’s better (Niskanen or Gudas) only exist to those who only look at stats and don’t see the bigger picture.

 

[Striiker]

I'll never understand the point in people making up blatant lies, both about what happened and about what people said. It just makes the liar look bad.

Lets recap the Ghost timeline so there's no confusion:

-plays amazing in 2017-2018
-entire team struggles at the start of 2018-2019, so the pairs get mixed up
-Ghost ends up with Hagg/MacDonald/Folin at 5v5 and the PP is extremely unlucky, so scoring suffers
-Hak gets fired, Gordon promoted
-PP gets ruined, scoring suffers for everyone on the unit
-year ends with scoring down but the defensive play was good
-2019-2020 starts, screwed from the start
-bottom pair, crap usage, crap teammates, PP still screwed up
-plays well, has rough period in November, and then plays fantastic from mid December onwards
-individually looks like normal Ghost, just without the chances to produce (not even on the top PP) and some bad luck
-early January, hurts knee at the end of a game
-it had been bothering him, not enough to require surgery or visually impact his play, but now it needs to be fixed
-gets fixed, practices, seems fine *no conditioning stint*
-plays game, performs very well, but playing a full game was too much and it hurts again
-back out until it heals
-he feels better, they think it's healed, cleared to practice, but obviously practice alone isn't enough to judge if it's truly ready
-they want to make sure he's ready but not in an NHL game, just in case
-goes down, tests leg in two games, no issue
-back up to the NHL, ready to go, but coaches won't put him in
-present day

 

[bobbythebrain]

Forgot healthy scratched for several games this season.

Hopefully @Beef Invictus will interject that post with an omission is lying comment...but i doubt it

 

[Beef Invictus]

Forgot healthy scratched for several games this season.

Hopefully @Beef Invictus will interject that post with an omission is lying comment...but i doubt it

He doesn't appear to be building a false narrative, so that's a huge difference. You do it to build strawmen and help push your lies about what others claim.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost is an amazing player who has been sabotaged by three HCs the last two years because they're jealous of him and want to break him and turn him into an ordinary player, even if it hurts the team and costs them their jobs.

Do I have that right?

 

[Starat327]

He doesn't appear to be building a false narrative, so that's a huge difference. You do it to build strawmen and help push your lies about what others claim.

Boom! Roasted!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Ghost doesn't do this!

Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!

 

[Striiker]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

NHL coaches are just dumb. Hakstol almost always, AV sometimes.