Post-Game Talk: #64: FLYERS at Blue Jackets, Thursday, Feb. 28, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
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Provorov is our 4th (!!) best offensive Dman.

Ghost
Sanheim
Myers

Easily.

Provorov hasnt so good vision and creativity.

Put him with Jake and G!

A big issue is that we have this young talented D core but haven't had a good veteran with them to help them mature with their game. I mean really they've had MacDonald as the alternate D captain and Gudas who doesn't strike me as a leadership type. We really just need/needed some veteran, non-liability type to help lead the D core along. A failure in planning on Hextall's part.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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I like posters like JoJo, he may argue that I'm wrong (and sometimes he's right about that) but he debates the evidence, and doesn't just expect me to accept his opinion. That's the kind of debate that elevates discussion on this board.

I respect Magua, who provides good reasons for his rating of players and prospects, generally defer to Appleyard (though sometimes he overdoes the metrics), but ignore those who just throw out opinions without substantiation.

As far as those who ascribe motives to me and engage in character assassination (calling someone a liar is trolling), well, I hold them in the same regard I hold the POTUS.
 

magnumpi

Roger got goofy with Cancer
Apr 22, 2018
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I cant wait until Mcdonald is off the books.

I'm tired of hearing about the virtues of playing Mcdonald and benching talented young players in favor of him.
Obviously the Flyer organization agrees with this philosophy.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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giphy.gif
 

magnumpi

Roger got goofy with Cancer
Apr 22, 2018
1,654
1,598
I like posters like JoJo, he may argue that I'm wrong (and sometimes he's right about that) but he debates the evidence, and doesn't just expect me to accept his opinion. That's the kind of debate that elevates discussion on this board.

I respect Magua, who provides good reasons for his rating of players and prospects, generally defer to Appleyard (though sometimes he overdoes the metrics), but ignore those who just throw out opinions without substantiation.

As far as those who ascribe motives to me and engage in character assassination (calling someone a liar is trolling), well, I hold them in the same regard I hold the POTUS.


You don't need to be a hockey expert to have a valid opinion on this subject matter.
If you've followed sports long enough its a simply concept.

The team is not making the playoffs this season.
They have a talented young dman who needs seasoning.
If he plays you're benching an older player who is below average and who will not be part of a future successful run.
The young dman will be part of a future successful run.

Therefore, you must play the young dman over the poor veteran player.

I don't need to be a hockey statistical expert to come to that conclusion.

You're over complicating a simple concept.
 

DancingPanther

Foundational Titan
Sponsor
Jun 19, 2018
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I like posters like JoJo, he may argue that I'm wrong (and sometimes he's right about that) but he debates the evidence, and doesn't just expect me to accept his opinion. That's the kind of debate that elevates discussion on this board.

I respect Magua, who provides good reasons for his rating of players and prospects, generally defer to Appleyard (though sometimes he overdoes the metrics), but ignore those who just throw out opinions without substantiation.

As far as those who ascribe motives to me and engage in character assassination (calling someone a liar is trolling), well, I hold them in the same regard I hold the POTUS.
Great post
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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I'm in favor of playing Myers, because the Flyers are out of the playoff race after last night.

My point was simply that he wasn't an upgrade RIGHT NOW, because he'll make a rookie's share of defensive mistakes. MacDonald, since he got healthy has been the best D-man at suppressing high danger scoring chances. Play Myers, and you're going to give opposing teams more good scoring chances. That's the price of giving a rookie game experience.

Now, if you want to slam Gordon for putting Hagg and Gudas together as a pair, go for it, because both the eyeballs and the metrics say that's a horrible decision.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
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Some posters are looking for veteran leadership on the back end. Gudas has six plus seasons in the league. IMO he has shown leadership this season. Except for his except for his pairing with Hagg, he usually does well with the partner with whom he is paired. Sanheim and Gudas were probably the best pairing on the i.e. for the Flyers this season when they played together. Ghost is no raw rookie. He has four seasons under his belt now. At this point in a career one would expect him to be able to be a "leader" in a pairing with a rookie. I don't see that happening.
This is where the dysfunction on defense occurs. There are good defensemen on the roster. However they just don't fit together skills wise in pairings. Time in the league doesn't have as much to do with it as some think.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
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Some posters are looking for veteran leadership on the back end. Gudas has six plus seasons in the league. IMO he has shown leadership this season. Except for his except for his pairing with Hagg, he usually does well with the partner with whom he is paired. Sanheim and Gudas were probably the best pairing on the i.e. for the Flyers this season when they played together. Ghost is no raw rookie. He has four seasons under his belt now. At this point in a career one would expect him to be able to be a "leader" in a pairing with a rookie. I don't see that happening.
This is where the dysfunction on defense occurs. There are good defensemen on the roster. However they just don't fit together skills wise in pairings. Time in the league doesn't have as much to do with it as some think.
How do you know if Gudas has shown leadership?
How do you know Ghost hasn’t?
What dysfunction on defense?
Who doesn’t fit together?

These are all just empty words you pulled out of thin air. You have nothing to back any of this up.

What a completely useless post.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,502
42,249
Deadhead over exaggerating Myers struggles as soon as there's a rough patch is so predictable. No, he's not "costing them games"

Predicatble, but still hilarious given that he was the guy saying Myers would more NHL ready than Sanheim because of his size & strength. Given that Myers is only slightly bigger than Sanheim, but is MUCH bigger & stronger than MacDonald, Myers must be already a much better defender than Andy.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
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Predicatble, but still hilarious given that he was the guy saying Myers would more NHL ready than Sanheim because of his size & strength. Given that Myers is only slightly bigger than Sanheim, but is MUCH bigger & stronger than MacDonald, Myers must be already a much better defender than Andy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

c8e5d8372019bd866978caed4e40da30.png
 

BringBackHakstol

Registered User
Oct 25, 2005
20,408
11,052
Philadelphia
I like posters like JoJo, he may argue that I'm wrong (and sometimes he's right about that) but he debates the evidence, and doesn't just expect me to accept his opinion. That's the kind of debate that elevates discussion on this board.

I respect Magua, who provides good reasons for his rating of players and prospects, generally defer to Appleyard (though sometimes he overdoes the metrics), but ignore those who just throw out opinions without substantiation.

As far as those who ascribe motives to me and engage in character assassination (calling someone a liar is trolling), well, I hold them in the same regard I hold the POTUS.

Not everyone has the patience to pick apart your obviously cherry picked arguments
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Predicatble, but still hilarious given that he was the guy saying Myers would more NHL ready than Sanheim because of his size & strength. Given that Myers is only slightly bigger than Sanheim, but is MUCH bigger & stronger than MacDonald, Myers must be already a much better defender than Andy.

There is a slight difference between potential and actual play.

Myers has more potential than Sanheim b/c it's hard to find his combination of size, speed and skill - doesn't mean he'll reach that potential, but he has the upside of a 25+ minute a night D-man who dominates all over the ice. And them are rare critters.

Sanheim has almost two years of NHL experience and is well ahead of Myers on the learning curve. He's got more offensive skill, but unless he signs up for the Charles Atlas program, I doubt he'll ever be an intimidating force in the D-zone.
 

BringBackHakstol

Registered User
Oct 25, 2005
20,408
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Philadelphia
The easy answer in all of this is that Hagg needs to sit. AMac stinks but he’s better than Hagg and he also fits into more pairing logically than Hagg. Hagg maybe could be passable in essentially a perfect scenario with the the perfect partner, which is one we do not have here.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The easy answer in all of this is that Hagg needs to sit. AMac stinks but he’s better than Hagg and he also fits into more pairing logically than Hagg. Hagg maybe could be passable in essentially a perfect scenario with the the perfect partner, which is one we do not have here.

Hopefully, Morin will be ready to play shortly.
He may not be better than Hagg, but if you have to pair someone with Gudas, he could hardly be worse.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,162
Pennsylvania
The easy answer in all of this is that Hagg needs to sit. AMac stinks but he’s better than Hagg and he also fits into more pairing logically than Hagg. Hagg maybe could be passable in essentially a perfect scenario with the the perfect partner, which is one we do not have here.
Sit both, add Morin.

Provorov-Sanheim
Ghost-Myers
Morin-Gudas

He'll have his struggles, but at least he has a chance to be decent and gains some experience. Hagg and MacDonald are just plain trash and that's not changing... there's zero upside there and no point in wasting time with them.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
A big issue is that we have this young talented D core but haven't had a good veteran with them to help them mature with their game. I mean really they've had MacDonald as the alternate D captain and Gudas who doesn't strike me as a leadership type. We really just need/needed some veteran, non-liability type to help lead the D core along. A failure in planning on Hextall's part.
Ah, the “mentor” argument again.
 

BringBackHakstol

Registered User
Oct 25, 2005
20,408
11,052
Philadelphia
Sit both, add Morin.

Provorov-Sanheim
Ghost-Myers
Morin-Gudas

He'll have his struggles, but at least he has a chance to be decent and gains some experience. Hagg and MacDonald are just plain trash and that's not changing... there's zero upside there and no point in wasting time with them.

Works for me, especially with playoffs out of reach
 

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