Post-Game Talk: #64 | FLYERS 1 at Capitals 2 (OT)| Saturday, March 4, 2017

[BernieParent]

I honestly enjoy how melodramatic people get when the PP gets cold for a few games. Over the last six years, they've consistently been top five year-to-year with essentially the same personnel and set up, and they rank in the top three with Pittsburgh and Washington over that span. They're keeping pace with the better PPs this year as usual, even despite Gostisbehere's struggles.

People just don't understand how probabilities work, so when the unit gets cold for a few games, they demand "CHANGES!!" even though it's quite likely they will regress back to their mean over enough time.

Over the course of a full season where a team averages ~260 powerplays, the difference between the Flyers' PP and the Caps' PP (league best) would be ~4 goals. Rather marginal. On the other hand, the difference between the Flyers and the Red Wings (league worst) would be ~21 goals. So, yeah, complaints about the PP are generally pretty overblown.

Of course, eventually the unit will have to be changed, so it's worth considering fresh ideas, but the demand for changes as though the current unit isn't acceptable is laughable at best.

Why?

But how many of the Flyers' recent PPs have looked utterly impotent? Poor puck movement, not even close to a scoring opportunity, struggling to just gain the zone? I am frustrated if the Flyers don't score, but infinitely more frustrated when they are fumbling the puck around with no purpose, leading to easy clears from the PKers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, and lose board battles that Voracek wins regularly to keep possession alive. Not to mention Gostisbehere struggles enough hitting the net as it is-- no reason to assume he'd score any more frequently from the right side where it's even harder to get pucks on net. Some of you have such singular thinking. It's not as simple as who has the better shot.

Yeah. Another issue: Giroux is shooting less on the PP. Why I don't know, but I hope it's because he's making poor reads and not because of lingering wrist issues becoming worse.

Passing across to Giroux for a one timer was a go-to play for Voracek and we really haven't seen it at all for a long time. V would look a lot more effective if he still had a guy burying his passes.

 

[Random Forest]

Our entire team sucks 5v5. It's not like our PP is bad at all, but it's also pretty inconsistent. I'm not saying we need a goal every game, but sometimes we can't even get in the zone and set up, other times they just look inept.

It also doesn't help that the Caps have completely owned it for a while now.

To what end?

The Flyers have the second highest amount of PP goals in the league this season. Does that surprise you? How many additional goals are you trying to squeeze out of the top unit? It's simply not an issue.

The Flyers suck at 5v5. "Fixing" a good PP unit that has historically been an elite PP unit should not be a priority. All PP units are inconsistent. It's the nature of probabilities. All units go cold for several games at a time. Then they get hot. It's just the way it works.

But how many of the Flyers' recent PPs have looked utterly impotent? Poor puck movement, not even close to a scoring opportunity, struggling to just gain the zone? I am frustrated if the Flyers don't score, but infinitely more frustrated when they are fumbling the puck around with no purpose, leading to easy clears from the PKers.

And in a few games, they'll be scoring again. They've gone cold before, just as every PP unit in the league has.

 

[Striiker]

I honestly enjoy how melodramatic people get when the PP gets cold for a few games. Over the last six years, they've consistently been top five year-to-year with essentially the same personnel and set up, and they rank in the top three with Pittsburgh and Washington over that span. They're keeping pace with the better PPs this year as usual, even despite Gostisbehere's struggles.

People just don't understand how probabilities work, so when the unit gets cold for a few games, they demand "CHANGES!!" even though it's quite likely they will regress back to their mean over enough time.

Over the course of a full season where a team averages ~260 powerplays, the difference between the Flyers' PP and the Caps' PP (league best) would be ~4 goals. Rather marginal. On the other hand, the difference between the Flyers and the Red Wings (league worst) would be ~21 goals. So, yeah, complaints about the PP are generally pretty stupid.

Of course, eventually the unit will have to be changed, so it's worth considering fresh ideas, but the demand for changes as though the current unit isn't acceptable is laughable at best.

Exactly, for every game where they go 3-4, there's multiple games of 0-4... it happens. You have to look at these things in the big picture, because the small picture doesn't tell the real story. Hot streaks and cold streaks happen, can't get worried at every cold streak and make changes.

That said, I do think that trying Ghost on the right side and Provorov was worth a try a few weeks ago. You definitely bring up a good point about board battles, but at the time it seemed like Jake was in a serious slump for quite a while and a change could help. Even the board battles didn't seem to be going his way and it felt like the puck going to that side of the ice always ended poorly. When Ghost is at the point there's more traffic for him to try to shoot through than there is on the right side of the ice. Voracek consistently gets good looks that are basically wasted by his fairly weak shot. Though the problem now is, if they did try that setup again, where Jake goes to the second unit, Filppula plays there and I'd like to see if him being there can make the 2nd unit passable.

Right now, I think leaving the top unit alone is fine. They didn't look good last night... at all... but the Caps have a very good PK so I wouldn't make any decisions after that game alone. I was mostly just annoyed that the coaching staff did make that change a while ago and only gave it a period or so to see if it worked... which seems like a waste of time. Either make a change and give it a chance or don't.. but being indecisive makes them look bad. As if they don't have confidence in their decisions and are just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Random Forest]

Exactly, for every game where they go 3-4, there's multiple games of 0-4... it happens. You have to look at these things in the big picture, because the small picture doesn't tell the real story. Hot streaks and cold streaks happen, can't get worried at every cold streak and make changes.

That said, I do think that trying Ghost on the right side and Provorov was worth a try a few weeks ago. You definitely bring up a good point about board battles, but at the time it seemed like Jake was in a serious slump for quite a while and a change could help. Even the board battles didn't seem to be going his way and it felt like the puck going to that side of the ice always ended poorly. When Ghost is at the point there's more traffic for him to try to shoot through than there is on the right side of the ice. Voracek consistently gets good looks that are basically wasted by his fairly weak shot. Though the problem now is, if they did try that setup again, where Jake goes to the second unit, Filppula plays there and I'd like to see if him being there can make the 2nd unit passable.

Right now, I think leaving the top unit alone is fine. They didn't look good last night... at all... but the Caps have a very good PK so I wouldn't make any decisions after that game alone. I was mostly just annoyed that the coaching staff did make that change a while ago and only gave it a period or so to see if it worked... which seems like a waste of time. Either make a change and give it a chance or don't.. but being indecisive makes them look bad. As if they don't have confidence in their decisions and are just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.

Yeah, this is all fair. Like I said, I don't mind the instinct to consider fresh ideas. It's worth considering whether there are better options. Plus, there will need to be changes when Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, and Provorov are competing for PP time anyway. I just find it strange that people are so convinced it's a pressing issue that needs to be addressed right now when the Flyers are already scoring the second most PP goals in the league this season.

I think our fans have taken our PP success over the past decade for granted and just don't recognize what an actually bad unit looks like.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

sometimes it is ok to credit the opposition when they take away things on the PP. Washington has an elite PK unit. it is tough to get organized against them because they are very good at taking away passing lanes and putting pressure on the point men.
Why has the Flyers PK been good lately? is it the Flyers PKers playing well or is it the opposition not executing and not making adjustments on the Flyers Pkers?

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, this is all fair. Like I said, I don't mind the instinct to consider fresh ideas. It's worth considering whether there are better options. Plus, there will need to be changes when Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, and Provorov are competing for PP time anyway. I just find it strange that people are so convinced it's a pressing issue that needs to be addressed right now when the Flyers are already scoring the second most PP goals in the league this season.

I think our fans have taken our PP success over the past decade for granted and just don't recognize what an actually bad unit looks like.

Yeah, with all of this teams issues, the PP is literally the last thing I'm worried about.

Cold streaks, hot streaks, they always even out.

And our PP is already great, when we likely add Lindblom and Sanheim next year (who I assume will both be on the 2nd PP unit) it'll possibly give us one great unit and one good one.

As for taking it for granted, absolutely. It reminds me of Giroux... when he's slumping it's all doom and gloom and we need to trade him and he'll never be the same and on and on and on... but then when the slump ends and he starts scoring again and everyone relaxes... until the next slump where we repeat from the beginning. You'd think that at some point the pattern would be recognized and people would remember that this has happened before so there's no reason to panic. It's usually just people being shortsighted.. and it gets old real fast. I swear, I got more annoyed by reactionary comments in GDT's and PGT's than I do by watching the team suck in games.

 

[BernieParent]

To what end?

The Flyers have the second highest amount of PP goals in the league this season. Does that surprise you? How many additional goals are you trying to squeeze out of the top unit? It's simply not an issue.

The Flyers suck at 5v5. "Fixing" a good PP unit that has historically been an elite PP unit should not be a priority. All PP units are inconsistent. It's the nature of probabilities. All units go cold for several games at a time. Then they get hot. It's just the way it works.



And in a few games, they'll be scoring again. They've gone cold before, just as every PP unit in the league has.

My answer is every single one. The objective should be to score on every PP. Would you, as a coach, player or fan, be okay with a team that has scored on their first two PPs to half-ass it on the ensuing three? It's not like the PP cannot be practiced as well as the obviously needier 5-vs-5. The importance for the PP coach to earn his pay and drill in best play is even more acute when the units have gone cold and/or when a particular club's PK is owning them.

 

[deadhead]

One thing to keep in mind, most playoff teams are going to have good PK units, and Flyers have been a top PP unit, so the PP edge against good teams will be limited to a few goals per season.

Compare that to the difference between top teams at ES v Flyers at ES.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

im assuming hes refering to something thats happened in practise ???

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

im assuming hes refering to something thats happened in practise ???

I assume it's all completely wrong because he is an idiot The first tweet barely made sense, and turns out it was wrong lol. I also found it hilarious that Timmeh was referencing "South Park."

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Gotta love when a "beat writer" talks like a fan and says "try to kill."

 

[Curufinwe]

God he's terrible.

 

[Flyotes]

There have been a lot of clickbait style tweets lately.

 

[BernieParent]

It's obv because the players don't like Mason, which is why Neuvirth was resigned, and the whole team is just a powder keg of rage and mistrust. Click below to find out details.

 

[Rebels57]

How can an organization with as proud a history as the Flyers have hacks like Panotch and Carchidi covering them?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

How can an organization with as proud a history as the Flyers have hacks like Panotch and Carchidi covering them?

well, the Rangers have Larry Brooks. So yeah.
i wonder how many teams have beat writers that are hated for being clueless by their fanbase

 

[kudymen]

well, the Rangers have Larry Brooks. So yeah.
i wonder how many teams have beat writers that are hated for being clueless by their fanbase

Heh, a few days ago i watched a highlight compilation of Torts versus Brooks on YouTube. Torts was anihilating him so bad i almost felt sorry for Brooks. But then i remembered he was a ****