Post-Game Talk: #62: Jets 2 at FLYERS 4, Saturday, Feb. 22, 2020, 1:00 pm ET

[bobbythebrain]

Why would anyone desire a non-NHL defenseman for an NHL defense?


This exact reasoning used to be presented to defend guys like Shelley, Rosehill, VDV, Lehtera, etc. The magical intangible trait that somehow makes up for them being bad.

Why have numerous coaches been doing it for years?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why have numerous coaches been doing it for years?

Because coaches often do stupid-ass stuff and value non-productive things.

Besides, Hagg is only playing now due to injury. Hak did it because he is human garbage.

If Fletcher weren't a dweeb who habitually fails to get value for his assets basically every single time, Hagg would have been shipped out since we can actually improve on him internally.

 

[Striiker]

Multiple people making a mistake doesn't mean it's not a mistake.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Multiple coaches making that "mistake", and win cups and go to conference finals

Oh wait, I forgot, coaching doesn't matter and this team is only winning games b/c of the players. Oops

 

[Beef Invictus]

Multiple coaches making that "mistake", and win cups and go to conference finals

Oh wait, I forgot, coaching doesn't matter and this team is only winning games b/c of the players. Oops

Actually Berube wanted Morin. He was overruled. Hakstol and Hextall were trash at player evaluation and selection, and neither have won Cups. Who are these "multiple coaches?"

Who claimed coaching doesn't matter? Why are you lying about what people say?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Imagine defending the usage of players like VDV, Lehtera, Hagg, Manning, etc. in the year 2020.

Just imagine.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Actually Berube wanted Morin. He was overruled. Hakstol and Hextall were trash at player evaluation and selection, and neither have won Cups. Who are these "multiple coaches?"

Who claimed coaching doesn't matter? Why are you lying about what people say?

The person that I referenced that to, has MULTIPLE TIMES stated AV is making decisions that are hurting the team, shouldn't be praised during wins when other posters were praising him, and has 100% said the team is winning DESPITE the coach

Why are you lying by calling me a liar?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Imagine defending the usage of players like VDV, Lehtera, Hagg, Manning, etc. in the year 2020.

Just imagine.

Coaches just know man. It's all very vague and magical and peasants like us could never understand. Only a select nepotistic Old Guys Club has the ability to understand that magical sorcery that is sports management. How dare you ever doubt anything they do.

 

[Striiker]

I can't imagine anyone who watched the Hakstol era thinks that coaching doesn't matter.

Coaching can single-handedly screw a team over so so so so easily. That's why so many people get annoyed by coaching mistakes.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Imagine defending the usage of players like VDV, Lehtera, Hagg, Manning, etc. in the year 2020.

Just imagine.

We're not the only team in the NHL..or these types of players

 

[Beef Invictus]

The person that I referenced that to, has MULTIPLE TIMES stated AV is making decisions that are hurting the team, shouldn't be praised during many wins when other posters were praising him, and has 100% said the team is winning DESPITE the coach

Why are you lying by calling me a liar?

How am I lying?

How does him saying that indicate coaching doesn't matter? Seems he's arguing the exact opposite. Like, an extreme opposite. So either you misrepresented what he was doing on purpose or somehow you don't understand that arguing about the important of coaching indicates they think coaching matters a lot.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

We're not the only team in the NHL..or these types of players

Did Chris Vandevelde play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Did Jori Lehtera play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Is Brandon Manning ever going to see the NHL ever again?

The answers to those questions are all no.

They didn't belong in the NHL when they were here and no one wanted them after.

That's bad coaching. That's bad management.

Just because other teams have "bad players" doesn't mean that it's ok to have those type of players on your team if their are other options.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We're not the only team in the NHL..or these types of players

The consistently successful teams don't elect to play obsolete, inferior players over superior players as a matter of annual habit. We do though. We also haven't won a Cup since 1975...those things are related.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

There are many reasons why the Flyers haven’t won since 1975.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Did Chris Vandevelde play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Did Jori Lehtera play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Is Brandon Manning ever going to see the NHL ever again?

The answers to those questions are all no.

They didn't belong in the NHL when they were here and no one wanted them after.

That's bad coaching. That's bad management.

Just because other teams have "bad players" doesn't mean that it's ok to have those type of players on your team if their are other options.

What you're talking about is a collective of bad players on 1 team at the same time, which we had.

But the subject right now is Hagg, 1 player who is on a stacked team....and despite popular opinion, provides a certain skillset that coaches for decades have loved...blocking shots...and hitting


So what I was saying about other coaches and teams...Ference, Orpik, Reghr, Lovejoy,etc. All these players went to stacked teams with limited skillsets and were used by the coaches

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What you're talking about is a collective of bad players on 1 team at the same time, which we had.

But the subject right now is Hagg, 1 player who is on a stacked team....and despite popular opinion, provides a certain skillset that coaches for decades have loved...blocking shots...and hitting


So what I was saying about other coaches and teams...Ference, Orpik, Reghr, Lovejoy,etc. All these players went to stacked teams with limited skillsets and were used by the coaches

None of that makes it smart or ok coaching.

You could make the same argument that all of those previous players "provided a certain skillset that coaches love," except when they left this organization no one else wanted them.

Just because something has been done for decades doesn't make it right. There's no such thing as a perfect team and just because you win while playing a worse player doesn't make it the right decision.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you're blocking shots and hitting it means you don't have the puck. If the other team has the puck a lot when you're on the ice, you suck.

 

[Mike1167]

Usually when they're hemmed in their own zone, it's poor play by the forwards, like the first line in the first period.

For the first two periods the forwards were releasing early, one great shot was Provorov holding the puck in the D-zone b/c there was no one to pass to, then later a shot of AV looking displeased at still another stretch pass b/c the forwards were all down ice.

Usually when they get hemmed in in their own end it's because Provorov mis-handles a puck behind the net or makes a poor decision in trying to move the puck out of the zone.

 

[Magua]

I can't imagine devoting a massive chunk of your life to an activity, only to not really care what you yourself think about that activity. I guess if you just like the authentic foam finger waving part; but to those who enjoy the hockey management side, we very much have our own carefully formulated, well-researched opinion that we treat with some conviction.

By a mile, hockey is the most inward-looking, insular sport when it comes to hiring. No other sport is treated more like an old boy's club than a cutthroat business. Either the secrets of the game are bottled and distributed to HockeyGuys™ on their secret mailing list........or it's cornering the market on ignorance and jobs for the generations to come. Probably the former.

 

[flyersnorth]

Did Chris Vandevelde play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Did Jori Lehtera play a single game after his time with the Flyers in the NHL?
Is Brandon Manning ever going to see the NHL ever again?

The answers to those questions are all no.

They didn't belong in the NHL when they were here and no one wanted them after.

That's bad coaching. That's bad management.

Just because other teams have "bad players" doesn't mean that it's ok to have those type of players on your team if their are other options.

Was it? Or were they geniuses that were 5 moves ahead of us, had massive coke parties with garbage players in the stealthiest of soft tanks in the history of the NHL?

Could go either way, really.

 

[marcsson68]

You‘d have to be really stupid to reduce all the post game talk to the question if Robert Hägg deserves to play or if he doesn‘t.

Puck luck has been with us for a couple of games now. And for sure Hägg has had his share. Enjoy it and don‘t curse it just because Ghost hasn‘t been his former self for a long time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There are many reasons why the Flyers haven’t won since 1975.

Yes, and favoring bad players BeCaUsE TuFfFnEzZ has sure been one of those reasons.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yes, and favoring bad players BeCaUsE TuFfFnEzZ has sure been one of those reasons.

that was not the case when they ran into those juggernaut Oiler teams in the 80s.

 

[BritainStix]

If you're blocking shots and hitting it means you don't have the puck. If the other team has the puck a lot when you're on the ice, you suck.

My god this argument needs to die, it's so ridiculous.

So Duncan Keith and Mark Ed-Vlasic sucked? How about Orpik, or Gio....

If you block a great deal of shots, it can mean that you are a good defensive defenseman that is good at stopping dangerous shots.

 

[Beef Invictus]

that was not the case when they ran into those juggernaut Oiler teams in the 80s.

In the 30 years since it's been a factor. That is a very, very long time.