Post-Game Talk: #6| St. Louis Blues @ New York Islanders | October 14th | 1:00 PM | 3-2 OTW

leeroggy

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Vs Carolina in the playoffs was proof enough of that. (Not saying we would have won with JB, but he would have made a difference.)

He played in the 5-2 loss this season, you're kidding yourself. We got outskated and over matched in that playoff series because Carolina is a heck of a lot better right now. They are what we want to be, a disciplined, defensively solid team with a HECK of a lot more offensive skill than we do.
 

crasherino

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I've been saying, before anyone calls him overpaid lets let his play speak for itself first. His impact is still big.
The post game Trotz interview was kinda funny - he made the point to emphasize that it wasn't pretty, but he gets the job done. After the 3rd or 4th "its not necessarily pretty" comment, I thought Johnny might start taking offense.

Like most guys on this team, his contract is for a year or two too long, but he's definitely still an asset to this team. A perfect candidate for every 3rd game off to keep healthy (and give Dobson some time), but you want a guy like him on your team for sure. His shift without a stick was great.
 
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pursuit81

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He played in the 5-2 loss this season, you're kidding yourself. We got outskated and over matched in that playoff series because Carolina is a heck of a lot better right now. They are what we want to be, a disciplined, defensively solid team with a HECK of a lot more offensive skill than we do.
I think you would concede that we were a much more polished team at playoff time last year than we have been out of the gates this season. The 10 day layoff killed us and, IMO, not having Boychuk's vet experience was a genuine loss. Like I said, Car was the better team, but not 4-0 better.
 

stranger34

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First game of the year for me. Nothing beats daytime Monday hockey on Long Island! I felt the game was a snoozer for the most part. The team slept in later than Josh Ho Sang on practice day, but played with great fire and urgency once awake. Wahlstrom was very noticeable in a good way.
 

PK Cronin

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You take one game where he gets a lucky goal and then shines in circus hockey and all of sudden is everything all right. It isn't, not until he shows he can do it in real hockey and in the face off circle.

If he gets lucky 20 times a year I don't give a f*** how they come. He's a 20 goal scorer, plain and simple.
 
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leeroggy

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I think you would concede that we were a much more polished team at playoff time last year than we have been out of the gates this season. The layoff killed us and, IMO, not having Boychuk's vet experience was a genuine loss. Like I said, Car was the better team, but not 4-0 better.

His flaw in the breakout game was there last year too. The problem is that we know what he can do defensively but too many here are looking past the one really big weakness in his game and that is the turnovers when pressed in his own end. The other guys are either able to skate to some space or maneuver in tighter space. He can't do either anymore. Our team needs quick breakouts because we have a paucity of those who can gain entry on their own into our o-zone. All I'm saying is watch the number of turnovers and icings he makes, it's not insignificant. I wish he was younger but this is what an older player who physically gets hammered blocking shots and playing the front evolves into late in his career.
 

Stercrazy

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Was at the game...for 50+ minutes they played solid defense however the same problem kept coming up for this team. They need a top 6. I know we have all beat this dead horse but that was the issue. Wahl looked great. He wasn't just standing around looking for the puck, he went after it and pushed the play. He looked very comfortable in both ends of the ice. I'm hoping this leads to a trade (another dead horse topic) and he remains with the club for the season. I'm not sure what he needs to learn in the minors.
 
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crasherino

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First game of the year for me. Nothing beats daytime Monday hockey on Long Island! I felt the game was a snoozer for the most part. The team slept in later than Josh Ho Sang on practice day, but played with great fire and urgency once awake. Wahlstrom was very noticeable in a good way.
Halfway through the 3rd period, I had the thought of "well, this one of those games with no energy at all at the Coliseum." Not that it was really the crowd's fault, there was very little to feed off of. That happens sometimes though. But out of nowhere, the place pretty much exploded. Nelson scored right in front of me - the net had one of those great "pops" where the puck hit and the net jumped with it. From there, it built to the tying goal where it seemed like the players and crowd were jumping up and down in unison. The OT goal was almost gravy - and inevitable - after everything else happened.

At about 8 minutes left, I turned to my boys and said "When the game is over, lets move quickly". After losses, you can get stuck in the lot as no one is staying for the post game stuff. My wife said "Why aren't we leaving now? Its not like anything is gonna happen." We haven't let her live that down still. She's happily owning it as the anti-jinx.
 
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PK Cronin

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If a 20 goal per year center with a 40% FO win pct satisfies your notion of a first line, franchise center, well, good onya I guess. It doesn't cut it for me.

Yeah, I guess that Joe Thornton guy was a f***ing bum in his prime. Like his face-off percentage isn't going to improve. :shakehead
 

pursuit81

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Yeah, I guess that Joe Thornton guy was a ****ing bum in his prime. Like his face-off percentage isn't going to improve. :shakehead
Really, you're going there? Mat Barzal isn't Joe Thornton and does not begin to bring the other aspects of the game that Joe Thornton did from the time he came into the league. Thornton had all the vision and passing skills that Barzal does, and more, plus he was perennially in the Selke conversation as well as being a premier face off man. I'm not saying Barzal will not improve in the areas of the game in which he is weakest; shooting, turnovers and faceoffs, but he is a long way from Joe Thornton territory.
 
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crasherino

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Yeah, I guess that Joe Thornton guy was a ****ing bum in his prime. Like his face-off percentage isn't going to improve. :shakehead
Connor McDavid's FO% has been between 41 - 46% throughout his career. It seems pretty clear to me that FO acumen is gained over time. There's nothing you can really do beyond simply taking a lot of face offs during games. Just a sense that there are very few Centers - even the successful ones - who were great at face offs at the outset of their careers. You can either never let them take a face off or let them grow. There were times yesterday that Lee stepped in and took a face off instead of Barzy - even at the right dot. I suspect that will happen from time to time. It is what it is.
 
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PK Cronin

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Really, you're going there? Mat Barzal isn't Joe Thornton and does not begin to bring the other aspects of the game that Joe Thornton did from the time he came into the league. Thornton had all the vision and passing skills that Barzal does, and more, plus he was perennially in the Selke conversation as well as being a premier face off man. I'm not saying Barzal will not improve in the areas of the game in which he is weakest; shooting, turnovers and faceoffs, but he is a long way from Joe Thornton territory.

You're the one saying a 20 goal scoring center isn't enough to be a first liner. You're wrong.
 
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pursuit81

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You're the one saying a 20 goal scoring center isn't enough to be a first liner. You're wrong.
Ah, the old literalism dodge. Because I mention one criteria it must be the only one that matters or that I care about. Give me a break, if Barzy could bring what Thornton brought in total he could score 10 and I wouldn't care.
 
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BelovedIsles

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If a 20 goal per year center with a 40% FO win pct satisfies your notion of a first line, franchise center, well, good onya I guess. It doesn't cut it for me.

Put some real talent on his line, watch him put up franchise center points. He’s a natural creative, swift playmaker, support his gifts.

With more talent on his wings that opens up space for him to shoot. He’s shooting more, enough will go in.
 
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pursuit81

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Put some real talent on his line, watch him put up franchise center points. He’s a natural creative, swift playmaker, support his gifts.

With more talent on his wings that opens up space for him to shoot. He’s shooting more, enough will go in.
Mostly agree, but none of it is an excuse for his almost uncanny inability to convert grade A chances when he has them now.
 
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LeapOnOver

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Two things to say about this game. Oliver Wahlstrom is what Dal Colle should have been. Wahlstrom needs to stay.

Secondly, I really thought I would miss Howie. Didn't think anybody could beat his quick wit. Brendan Burke is a great play by play guy and still love Howie, but Burke is equal in my eyes. Yesterday when he said, "Trotz talked about the team playing 60 minutes but he'll have to settle for 6 tonight" made me laugh out loud for real. I really like Burke.
 

LeapOnOver

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First game of the year for me. Nothing beats daytime Monday hockey on Long Island! I felt the game was a snoozer for the most part. The team slept in later than Josh Ho Sang on practice day, but played with great fire and urgency once awake. Wahlstrom was very noticeable in a good way.

Weird, watching on TV I thought this was a pretty entertaining game. Lots of chances and good scoring opportunities on both sides. Was entertaining to me even as I thought they were going to lose most of the game.
 

BelovedIsles

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Mostly agree, but none of it is an excuse for his almost uncanny inability to convert grade A chances when he has them now.

He’s not a natural goal scorer. Recently he was directly in the slot, he shot it 1 ft above the bar. :facepalm:

Imho, it’s something he can work on. JT was told to fix his skating, he worked diligently w a world class skating coach (forget her name). Barzal, I hope, does the same every offseason; but w a shooting coach. Maybe he can recruit Brett Hull or something.

Instead of working on his core strength and edges, work diligently on a weakness—shooting.
 
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LeapOnOver

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He’s not a natural goal scorer. Recently he was directly in the slot, he shot it 1 ft above the bar. :facepalm:

Imho, it’s something he can work on. JT was told to fix his skating, he worked diligently w a world class skating coach (forget her name). Barzal, I hope, does the same every offseason; but w a shooting coach. Maybe he can recruit Brett Hull or something.

Instead of working on his core strength and edges, work diligently on a weakness—shooting.

I might be the only one that doesn't want Barzal to shoot more. He doesn't put the puck on net enough, doesn't take shots that give rebounds, and there's no pace on his shot. To me, it's a wasted effort. I hope he works on his shot this next offseason, but until he does, just skate and pass Barzy.
 

BelovedIsles

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I might be the only one that doesn't want Barzal to shoot more. He doesn't put the puck on net enough, doesn't take shots that give rebounds, and there's no pace on his shot. To me, it's a wasted effort. I hope he works on his shot this next offseason, but until he does, just skate and pass Barzy.

I think it’s still a good habit for him. Everyone knows he’s pass first. If he keeps shooting, goalies, D men, back pressuring forwards will take that extra second to decipher what he’s going to do. Even if he misses, he keeps the opposition guessing. That’s best for him and the team.

But yeah, he attended some conditioning camp w Pat Kane in Florida this year. He better just focus on shooting.
 
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13th Floor

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I might be the only one that doesn't want Barzal to shoot more. He doesn't put the puck on net enough, doesn't take shots that give rebounds, and there's no pace on his shot. To me, it's a wasted effort. I hope he works on his shot this next offseason, but until he does, just skate and pass Barzy.

Fair, but not on this team IMO. If he was setting up snipers, I agree. Wait for the right play, like he did going around the net and finding Toews wide open... but that's 3 on 3 with a hobbled Pietrangelo. In an earlier game he just randomly threw the puck on net from the blue line while fading away, and it was one of our best scoring chances. I forget who we were playing, but we couldn't generate anything and that one was just laying in the crease with everyone scrambling. This team has to score greasy goals.

Otherwise, I get what you are saying. Barzal is all motor. He'll never find those soft spots to lurk and snipe. His goals will come off rushes and his hockey sense to be in the right place. But he still does desperately need to work on a shot. A quick release. He's so fast and unpredictable that just throwing pucks at skates, at the crease, towards the goalie, etc., creates so much havoc and we can score from those plays. Right now he's doing awesome setting up players that can't snipe. He shouldn't detract from that, but everyone on our team needs to muck it up more in the offensive zone. We won this game by throwing two f***ing prayers at the net.
 
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LeapOnOver

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I think it’s still a good habit for him. Everyone knows he’s pass first. If he keeps shooting, goalies, D men, back pressuring forwards will take that extra second to decipher what he’s going to do. Even if he misses, he keeps the opposition guessing. That’s best for him and the team.

But yeah, he attended some conditioning camp w Pat Kane in Florida this year. He better just focus on shooting.

Fair, but not on this team IMO. If he was setting up snipers, I agree. Wait for the right play, like he did going around the net and finding Toews wide open... but that's 3 on 3 with a hobbled Pietrangelo. In an earlier game he just randomly threw the puck on net from the blue line while fading away, and it was one of our best scoring chances. I forget who we were playing, but we couldn't generate anything and that one was just laying in the crease with everyone scrambling. This team has to score greasy goals.

Otherwise, I get what you are saying. Barzal is all motor. He'll never find those soft spots to lurk and snipe. His goals will come off rushes and his hockey sense to be in the right place. But he still does desperately need to work on a shot. A quick release. He's so fast and unpredictable that just throwing pucks at skates, at the crease, towards the goalie, etc., creates so much havoc and we can score from those plays. Right now he's doing awesome setting up players that can't snipe. He shouldn't detract from that, but everyone on our team needs to muck it up more in the offensive zone. We won this game by throwing two ****ing prayers at the net.

Yeah, won't argue with you guys. The ideal thing is for him to actually improve his shot and have those shots go in rather than relying on somebody to be there to deflect it or clean up the garbage. I guess my point is i'm actually fine with his percentage on shot decisions. I think he shouldn't shoot a whole heck of a lot, and he doesn't so i'm quite alright with that. Maybe he can increase it a tiny bit, when he thinks there is enough traffic (although I don't really trust him to get his shot through traffic) or he wants to keep the goalie guessing.
 
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