Post-Game Talk: #57 FLYERS 5 at Wild 4, Tuesday, Feb. 12, 2019, 8:00 pm ET

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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I mean, years is a bit of an exaggeration. Provorov was clearly better in 16-17 after the first month or so when he got adjusted to the speed of the NHL.

He was our best in 15-16 by a wide margin and I would say by a very narrow margin over Provorov in 17-18.

This year, Sanheim and Gudas have been our best 2 defensemen. Provorov is rounding into form and was phenomenal last night. Ghost is still kind of fighting it this season. Still think injury could be a factor though. That combined with the MacDonald factor.

Ghost was recovering from injury/surgery in 16-17, same as Giroux, and even then he managed to be 24th in D scoring. The other two years aren't even close.

This year is a complete fluke, helped by a million terrible things screwing him over. And even still, I'd easily put him at 2nd best after Sanheim. Provorov was even worse up until a week or so ago (now he's playing well) and Gudas is just as mistake prone with none of the upside.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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Ghost was recovering from injury/surgery in 16-17, same as Giroux, and even then he managed to be 24th in D scoring. The other two years aren't even close.

This year is a complete fluke, helped by a million terrible things screwing him over. And even still, I'd easily put him at 2nd best after Sanheim. Provorov was even worse up until a week or so ago (now he's playing well) and Gudas is just as mistake prone with none of the upside.

Provorov wasn't nearly as good as Ghost last year? o_O

Gudas has been better than both this season.

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but Ghost has not been very good this season. Not in the D zone. Not in the O zone. I love him but he hasn't. Monday was his best game in months.

Don't think this as me saying I want to trade him, because that's not what i'm saying. Just seems to me that you have a jaded view of how Ghost has been playing this season.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Provorov wasn't nearly as good as Ghost last year? o_O

Gudas has been better than both this season.

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but Ghost has not been very good this season. Not in the D zone. Not in the O zone. I love him but he hasn't. Monday was his best game in months.

Don't think this as me saying I want to trade him, because that's not what i'm saying. Just seems to me that you have a jaded view of how Ghost has been playing this season.

The defensive play between Ghost and Provorov was close last year and the scoring wasn't.

This year, Ghost hasn't been very good, but the only defensemen who has been is Sanheim. Now Provorov is starting to play well in the last few games, but before that he was an absolute disaster, so he wasn't any better, and obviously Hagg and MacDonald are the two worst. I'm not overrating the play of Ghost, you're overrating the play of Gudas. He f***s up just as much as Ghost and has none of the offense to make up for it.
 
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TCTC

Registered User
Mar 25, 2013
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Ghost was clearly their top defenseman last year and not by a small margin.
Not by a small margin? Really?

Provorov had a great season last year. He had more goals than any other defenseman in the entire league. He had more ES points than Ghost and has always been the better player defensively.
Ghost was fantastic on the PP, but at ES I'd say Provorov was the better and the more effective player.
 

Rebels57

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24 points is not a small margin. Their defense was far closer than that gap.

Ghost was easily better last year.

Sure, Ghost was obviously a massive factor on the PP, but Provorov outscored him at ES last season and did it with more difficult usage.

He also wasn't watching games from the bench in the last 5 minutes of the game like Ghost was. I know that's Haks fault for not trusting Ghost but still, right or wrong, those are tough minutes Provy was playing and Ghost wasnt in many games.

I voted for Ghost as dman of the year in 17-18 too, but I don't know where this notion he blew Provorov away came from.
 

Rebels57

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I saw it as Provorov being better in the first half of the season with Ghost being better in the second.

Yeah, I feel the same way. Ghost was better in the 2nd half and that came when he was paired with Provorov.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
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Pennsylvania
Sure, Ghost was obviously a massive factor on the PP, but Provorov outscored him at ES last season and did it with more difficult usage.

He also wasn't watching games from the bench in the last 5 minutes of the game like Ghost was. I know that's Haks fault for not trusting Ghost but still, right or wrong, those are tough minutes Provy was playing and Ghost wasnt in many games.

I voted for Ghost as dman of the year in 17-18 too, but I don't know where this notion he blew Provorov away came from.

By 4 points. Not enough to draw any conclusions from and we know 3 of those were empty net goals. Not sure how many empty net assists he had. Who knows what Ghost would've had if the idiot coach wasn't benching him for the last 10 minutes of games, through no fault of his own.

Regardless, I made my point. The offense wasn't close, the defense was. I'm sticking by "easily better". If you disagree, you disagree.
 
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Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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By 4 points. Not enough to draw any conclusions from and we know 3 of those were empty net goals. Not sure how many empty net assists he had. Who knows what Ghost would've had if the idiot coach wasn't benching him for the last 10 minutes of games, through no fault of his own.

Regardless, I made my point. The offense wasn't close, the defense was. I'm sticking by "easily better". If you disagree, you disagree.

Agree to disagree then.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Ghost was dominated in the playoffs, anyone who says otherwise is a liar. :sarcasm:

Ghost doesn't play in the last five minutes for Gordon either, maybe because when the other team is pressuring you in the D-zone an undersized playmaking defenseman who can't win puck battles or clear the crease isn't ideal - the same reason he doesn't play on the PK.

Provorov is clearly the better defenseman, Ghost has one exceptional skill, as a PP playmaker, because 5x4 there's more room to operate, he's playing "half court" so his dropoff in speed after the injury doesn't come into play, and he plays on the perimeter, so his size isn't a factor. I suspect Kalynuk and Zamula will excel in that role down the road for similar reasons.

But most of the game is played at ES, and the PK is as important as the PP (since generally you play a similar amount of time on the PK and a goal prevented is equal to a goal scored). So I'll take the guy who can be special at ES and the PK.
 

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