Post-Game Talk: #55 Ducks 2 at FLYERS 6, Saturday, Feb. 9, 2019, 1:00 pm ET

[Outlaw Samurai]

Came in here for the post game thread and all I see is ghost trade talk. You guys are crazy.

I can see Pitt being utter scumbags and taking a run at Hart. I’ll literally hunt down that fat slob kessel.

Thankfully that POS Neal is gone. Don't worry, our fat slob will fight their fat slob if need be

 

[deadhead]

Lindblom should have been at least the 2nd star, he was making plays at both ends all night.

 

[deadhead]

Should of traded Coots when he only had 34 points as a 24 year old.

Difference is before Couts got top wingers and put up points, he had elite metrics for two years, and advanced metrics are primarily predictive, not descriptive.

Ghost has improved his metrics, but he's not an elite defenseman, neither is Provorov yet, but he has that kind of upside, Ghost doesn't.

The closest comparable to Ghost is Mark Streit, don't think so, same size and similar skills (Streit came over from Switzerland at age 28). And no one has ever suggested that Streit was an elite defenseman, Streit had seasons of 62, 48, 46, 44 points.

From 30-37 (prorating the strike year) averaged: ES 5-21 PP 6-20, Total 11-41 52
Streit finished 8th, 10th and 13th in Norris voting.

Ghost his first four years (prorating his rookie year and this year): ES 7-18, PP 6-19, Total 13-37 50

Here's the crazy thing, we got Streit at age 36 for a 4th rd pick, gave us seasons of 44 and 52 points before he started breaking down at age 38, at which time we traded him for a 4th and 7th rd pick and Filppula's contract.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Thankfully that POS Neal is gone. Don't worry, our fat slob will fight their fat slob if need be

Penguins-Lightning got a little tasty tonight, people were throwing. Sid actually tried to drop with Tyler Johnson but TJ kinda turtled. I'd like them to bring some of that same energy Monday, get a rough one to really take this streak up a notch.

 

[StarterHart]

Penguins-Lightning got a little tasty tonight, people were throwing. Sid actually tried to drop with Tyler Johnson but TJ kinda turtled. I'd like them to bring some of that same energy Monday, get a rough one to really take this streak up a notch.

If the refs allow it. I was a little annoyed that they didn't let Gudas and Perry go.

 

[mja]

Difference is before Couts got top wingers and put up points, he had elite metrics for two years, and advanced metrics are primarily predictive, not descriptive.

Ghost has improved his metrics, but he's not an elite defenseman, neither is Provorov yet, but he has that kind of upside, Ghost doesn't.

The closest comparable to Ghost is Mark Streit, don't think so, same size and similar skills (Streit came over from Switzerland at age 28). And no one has ever suggested that Streit was an elite defenseman.

Huh? Mark Streit at his peak was a very good #1 defenseman.

He finished in the top 13 for Norris voting & end of season AS selection for 3 straight seasons and regularly polled above Timonen in polls on HF (which I remember well, having argued with people that Kimmo was the better player). If Ghost gives us peak Mark Streit level play (all at a 4.5 million dollar caphit), it would be pure idiocy to trade him.

 

[Embiid]

Thankfully that POS Neal is gone. Don't worry, our fat slob will fight their fat slob if need be

Schenn is back?

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Huh? Mark Streit at his peak was a very good #1 defenseman.

He finished in the top 13 for Norris voting & end of season AS selection for 3 straight seasons and regularly polled above Timonen in polls on HF (which I remember well, having argued with people that Kimmo was the better player). If Ghost gives us peak Mark Streit level play (all at a 4.5 million dollar caphit), it would be pure idiocy to trade him.

All this does is confirm that to some people, Ghost can never be a number 1 or top pairing defenseman because he doesn't fit the archetype that they believe those player should be.

 

[Embiid]

Difference is before Couts got top wingers and put up points, he had elite metrics for two years, and advanced metrics are primarily predictive, not descriptive.

Ghost has improved his metrics, but he's not an elite defenseman, neither is Provorov yet, but he has that kind of upside, Ghost doesn't.

The closest comparable to Ghost is Mark Streit, don't think so, same size and similar skills (Streit came over from Switzerland at age 28). And no one has ever suggested that Streit was an elite defenseman, Streit had seasons of 62, 48, 46, 44 points.

From 30-37 (prorating the strike year) averaged: ES 5-21 PP 6-20, Total 11-41 52
Streit finished 8th, 10th and 13th in Norris voting.

Ghost his first four years (prorating his rookie year and this year): ES 7-18, PP 6-19, Total 13-37 50

Here's the crazy thing, we got Streit at age 36 for a 4th rd pick, gave us seasons of 44 and 52 points before he started breaking down at age 38, at which time we traded him for a 4th and 7th rd pick and Filppula's contract.

Member when people said he was a "young" mid 30's D man bc of low wear n tear.....yeah how did that work out....

It saddens me that Ghost's play has not been too good and that he is seen as trade bait...

 

[Striiker]

All this does is confirm that to some people, Ghost can never be a number 1 or top pairing defenseman because he doesn't fit the archetype that they believe those player should be.

Yeah, there's people who hate scoring and think that being elite offensively means you're automatically bad defensively.

It's wrong, but they're so set in that mindset that they can't see Ghost for what he really is. It's the same kind of unappreciative mindset that has people taking guys like Giroux, Voracek, and Couturier for granted.

 

[Flyerfan13]

Kids day interviews

 

[baudib1]

Would Carolina take 2 firsts and a mid-level prospect for Dougie Hamilton? If something like that happens I'd be amenable to trading Ghost for an elite winger with term. Who that would be, I have no idea. Jonathan Marchessault? Ondrej Kase?

And that's only if we can't get one of the big-ticket items in free agency, like Panarin, Stone or Duchene.

But really, I don't ever want to trade Ghost. I don't think he's playing well recently and has had a bad season in general, but he's still been pretty good - 52.3% Corsi +3.4% REL. If this is his worst season he's going to have a great career.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Schenn is back?

The other fat slob. The one I actually like but he's an easy target

 

[deadhead]

Huh? Mark Streit at his peak was a very good #1 defenseman.

He finished in the top 13 for Norris voting & end of season AS selection for 3 straight seasons and regularly polled above Timonen in polls on HF (which I remember well, having argued with people that Kimmo was the better player). If Ghost gives us peak Mark Streit level play (all at a 4.5 million dollar caphit), it would be pure idiocy to trade him.

Yes, but that's not elite. Doughty is elite, EK is elite, etc.
Streit was very good, but at ES on the Islanders actually played less than MacDonald or Martinek.
When he put up 62 points in Montreal, he was the 3rd pair D-man at ES, playing 11:48 a night but running the PP.
Which is potentially Ghost's role if he stays on the Flyers, with Provorov, Sanheim, Myers getting more ES minutes.

 

[deadhead]

Would Carolina take 2 firsts and a mid-level prospect for Dougie Hamilton? If something like that happens I'd be amenable to trading Ghost for an elite winger with term. Who that would be, I have no idea. Jonathan Marchessault? Ondrej Kase?

And that's only if we can't get one of the big-ticket items in free agency, like Panarin, Stone or Duchene.

But really, I don't ever want to trade Ghost. I don't think he's playing well recently and has had a bad season in general, but he's still been pretty good - 52.3% Corsi +3.4% REL. If this is his worst season he's going to have a great career.

I'm not sure Hamilton would even cost that much, he cost a 1st (#15) and (2) 2nds when Boston traded him in 2015.
He was 21, coming off a 42 point season, cost controlled.
Now he has two years left at $6M a year. FA at 28.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, but that's not elite. Doughty is elite, EK is elite, etc.
Streit was very good, but at ES on the Islanders actually played less than MacDonald or Martinek.
When he put up 62 points in Montreal, he was the 3rd pair D-man at ES, playing 11:48 a night but running the PP.
Which is potentially Ghost's role if he stays on the Flyers, with Provorov, Sanheim, Myers getting more ES minutes.

Why does Ghost need to be elite? At 4.5 million he can be a Streit and be the best Dman value in the league by a mile.

 

[mja]

Yes, but that's not elite. Doughty is elite, EK is elite, etc.
Streit was very good, but at ES on the Islanders actually played less than MacDonald or Martinek.
When he put up 62 points in Montreal, he was the 3rd pair D-man at ES, playing 11:48 a night but running the PP.
Which is potentially Ghost's role if he stays on the Flyers, with Provorov, Sanheim, Myers getting more ES minutes.

Which means that if Ghost gives us peak Streit-level play for his 4.5 million dollar caphit through 22-23, it's a complete steal, and that it would be absolutely idiotic to trade him except in a deal for an elite defenseman (or for a legit 1C or a franchise-level winger), right?

Like, the last thing we want to do at this juncture is downgrade and trade Ghost for the average top line winger, or a 1st, a prospect, and bottom half roster player, right?

 

[Striiker]

For reference, here's the defensemen making within $500k from Ghost's cap hit...

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

HE. IS. A. STEAL.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

For reference, here's the defensemen making within $500k from Ghost's cap hit...

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

HE. IS. A. STEAL.

yup. for what he brings to the team at that cap hit it is easily a steal.
didnt realize Jake Muzzin is only making 4 per (cap hit)

 

[wankstifier]

Penguins-Lightning got a little tasty tonight, people were throwing. Sid actually tried to drop with Tyler Johnson but TJ kinda turtled. I'd like them to bring some of that same energy Monday, get a rough one to really take this streak up a notch.

IIRC, Johnson was trying to get up.

Crosby is just a lot bigger and stronger.

 

[deadhead]

Like, the last thing we want to do at this juncture is downgrade and trade Ghost for the average top line winger, or a 1st, a prospect, and bottom half roster player, right?

Have I proposed that?

I don't even know if they would trade Ghost, all I've suggested is that he's in a group of players they'll listen to offers.
I think if he were to be moved, it would be part of a trade or series of trades to add a top 4 RHD to balance the defense, not because they're unhappy with him.
In the same fashion, JVR or Voracek would be traded only to free up cap room for a free agent and/or balance out the top three lines.
Everyone can't play with Couts at center.

But if Fletcher wants to reshape the roster, to add value he'll need to give value, whether a big FA contract and/or a big trade.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading Ghost for a dman is pointless roster tinkering, especially since you aren't going to get a dman with similar value.

 

[Foggy14]

Kids day interviews

Victoria just vaulted past Carchidi, and Dave Isaac on the list of best Flyer journalists.

 

[mja]

Have I proposed that?

There's a reason I framed it as a question -- I have no idea what your thoughts on the matter are.

I'm not completely opposed to trading Ghost. I'm completely opposed to trading him for things that don't make sense to trade him for, which is almost everything. The list of things it does make sense to trade him for is an exceedingly small one (an even better dman, a legit 1C, a franchise winger) and it's not highly likely that such a deal would be available, and we'd likely need to add additional assets in the event such a deal was available.

 

[wankstifier]

If the Flyers get Hamilton, Karlsson or any other productive RHD, I’m keeping Gostisbehere to play LD.

Gostisbehere is, has been, and likely always will be better than Provorov. He will soon be cheaper over the next 4 years.