Post-Game Talk: #54 Kings 3 at FLYERS 2 (SO), Thursday, Feb. 7, 7:00 pm ET

[hatcher]

That’s what we have been hearing, I agree. Even Dave Scott said what he likes about Fletch is he understands this team has big needs. If this turns into a 4-5 game losing streak again I’m sending Hart down and going all out Hughes.



Plus you are looking at getting 1-2 very good pieces for jake. If we got those 3-4 pieces we are set for multiple cup runs.

This would be great for the flyers. If not for our goalies this would be another 9 gm losing streak. Team looks like shit.

 

[Rebels57]

I know. I was *****ing st him most of the game even when he had a a couple good plays. I’d say that the shot was nice to end the game but that was all G. Ironically, that’s the player I want to have in that slot. A shooter. So when jake is that it works and we got to OT. When he’s his baseline and he passes there or misses the shot it’s more obvious. I am sick and tired of all the offensive zone turnovers. He and simmer just kill drives which is tough to take in Gordon’s system as is.



Hey he’s been good the last few weeks. And if we can keep him and add two shooters that are proven I’d good with him. But I don’t see it as he’s getting paid a ton. I’d much rather add Panarin and then add Stone in his place with that cap.

I wouldn't be against trading Jake in the right scenario and if we had the right replacements coming back, but it's extremely unlikely. He's still a good player that can help us win, and that contract is a big one for another team to take back in a trade.

I'm totally fine with Jake staying right where he is.

Oh and calling that goal all Giroux is disingenuous. As great as the pass was, there is no goal there without a great shot.

 

[TheKingPin]

Voracek is playing the best hockey of his career the last 9 games, playing with Couts has made a big difference, and that's the difference between a good and great player, everyone plays better with Couts at center, whereas Voracek can't lift a line and Giroux's line has been awful with possession and defense. Which is why Giroux needs to move back to wing and Patrick has to step up and be the 2C next year and Frost the 3C.

Problem right now is they could field:
Giroux - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Patrick - TK
but JVR - ??? - Simmonds is not a good third line, Laughton isn't a 3C, Vorabyev isn't ready for that role, Rubtsov is hurt and Bunnaman a work in progress. That will be a key focus this offseason. Starting to think JVR might be one and done unless you move Lindblom to RW.

Hagg - Gudas is a bad pairing, MacDonald had a bad game but otherwise has been solid since his return, hopefully some team needs veteran depth for the playoff run. Myers, Friedman, Morin will make a difference here.

Stolarz needs a few more starts, but he's looking like a solid NHL backup goalie, given what is available in FA in veteran backup goalies, he's probably your best bet if he keeps this up, with Lyon at LHV if he gets through waivers (unlikely if he keeps playing this well). The solid veterans want to go where they can start and unless there's a Hart collapse, that ain't happening here.

Another game where they were flat out dominated the first two periods, forget shots, look at scoring chances and high danger scoring chances, they've been consistently outplayed by those measures during this win streak. You can blame some of that on Gordon, but the "miracle" HC isn't going to turn this around without personnel changes.

PS: Anyone still want to rag on me about TK not being a first line forward? He's still a work in progress, only 21, but there's a reason he was a late 1st rd pick, he's not the most instinctive player and is a bit straight line - and can't score on breakaways or shootouts for some reason. He'll get better with experience, but geez, what a surprise, he's only looked like a top player paired with Couts.

That’s exaclty it. Who f***ing cares if someone plays well with Couts. Everyone plays well with him. For 9 million a year I want someone that doesn’t need a chaperone. What’s going to happen when good teams take Couts away? Patrick hopefully will be there but we need much more than Couts saving this team.

TK has been so frustrating. Not just from not scoring but the blind and shitty passes. Don’t do that shit. It’s so frustrating. It literally NEVER works.

 

[hatcher]

That’s exaclty it. Who ****ing cares if someone plays well with Couts. Everyone plays well with him. For 9 million a year I want someone that doesn’t need a chaperone. What’s going to happen when good teams take Couts away? Patrick hopefully will be there but we need much more than Couts saving this team.

TK has been so frustrating. Not just from not scoring but the blind and ****ty passes. Don’t do that ****. It’s so frustrating. It literally NEVER works.

Konecny might be gone in a trade dude. Fletcher does not like little players to start with but little players that arent stars can be traded and he might be one of those players to bring back something way better.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Konecny might be gone in a trade dude. Fletcher does not like little players to start with but little players that arent stars can be traded and he might be one of those players to bring back something way better.

Yet Habs have a bunch of role players under 6 feet and they just skated circles around the big bad Jets ???

TK is the least of our problems going forward.

3rd line C and 3rd line RW are big needs now and going forward.

 

[Rebels57]

That’s exaclty it. Who ****ing cares if someone plays well with Couts. Everyone plays well with him. For 9 million a year I want someone that doesn’t need a chaperone. What’s going to happen when good teams take Couts away? Patrick hopefully will be there but we need much more than Couts saving this team.

TK has been so frustrating. Not just from not scoring but the blind and ****ty passes. Don’t do that ****. It’s so frustrating. It literally NEVER works.

Jake also played really well with Patrick the 2nd half of last season. The two of them not working this season had as much to do with Patrick as it did Voracek.

 

[hatcher]

Yet Habs have a bunch of role players under 6 feet and they just skated circles around the big bad Jets ???

TK is the least of our problems going forward.

3rd line C and 3rd line RW are big needs now and going forward.

I'm just saying that he might be gone and Konecny right now is nothing like Mtl players. Those f***ers get after it unlike this group of terribly led players.

 

[TheKingPin]

I wouldn't be against trading Jake in the right scenario and if we had the right replacements coming back, but it's extremely unlikely. He's still a good player that can help us win, and that contract is a big one for another team to take back in a trade.

I'm totally fine with Jake staying right where he is.

Oh and calling that goal all Giroux is disingenuous. As great as the pass was, there is no goal there without a great shot.

Depends what your ideal return is I guess. Trading Voracek for Panarin in the end is good enough imo so I would take a lot less than most probably. I wonder if the jackets would want jake for a signed Panarin. I can’t see them not getting a first back.

I thought Jakes goal was nice but I think any skilled player in the NHL should hit the shot with a defender going down and quick being a smaller older goalie. But yea it was a nice shot. My bigger point is we need a guy that you are LOOKING to get the puck to. Not hoping jake converts.

 

[TheKingPin]

Konecny might be gone in a trade dude. Fletcher does not like little players to start with but little players that arent stars can be traded and he might be one of those players to bring back something way better.

He’s struggling and I’m not sure how coachable he is but I hope they keep him. He can be a 30 goal scorer pretty easily. I’m not really sure he’d be even that expensive over his career as he doesn’t do a lot else. He’s headed for a cheap deal now as is. Sign him to a long term deal at 4.5 and you are looking pretty good.

Jake also played really well with Patrick the 2nd half of last season. The two of them not working this season had as much to do with Patrick as it did Voracek.

That would be nice but I just don’t see it. I think Jake should be a top 9 player but for over 2 mill less and scoring more.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Voracek is playing the best hockey of his career the last 9 games, playing with Couts has made a big difference, and that's the difference between a good and great player, everyone plays better with Couts at center, whereas Voracek can't lift a line and Giroux's line has been awful with possession and defense. Which is why Giroux needs to move back to wing and Patrick has to step up and be the 2C next year and Frost the 3C.

Problem right now is they could field:
Giroux - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Patrick - TK
but JVR - ??? - Simmonds is not a good third line, Laughton isn't a 3C, Vorabyev isn't ready for that role, Rubtsov is hurt and Bunnaman a work in progress. That will be a key focus this offseason. Starting to think JVR might be one and done unless you move Lindblom to RW.

Hagg - Gudas is a bad pairing, MacDonald had a bad game but otherwise has been solid since his return, hopefully some team needs veteran depth for the playoff run. Myers, Friedman, Morin will make a difference here.

Stolarz needs a few more starts, but he's looking like a solid NHL backup goalie, given what is available in FA in veteran backup goalies, he's probably your best bet if he keeps this up, with Lyon at LHV if he gets through waivers (unlikely if he keeps playing this well). The solid veterans want to go where they can start and unless there's a Hart collapse, that ain't happening here.

Another game where they were flat out dominated the first two periods, forget shots, look at scoring chances and high danger scoring chances, they've been consistently outplayed by those measures during this win streak. You can blame some of that on Gordon, but the "miracle" HC isn't going to turn this around without personnel changes.

PS: Anyone still want to rag on me about TK not being a first line forward? He's still a work in progress, only 21, but there's a reason he was a late 1st rd pick, he's not the most instinctive player and is a bit straight line - and can't score on breakaways or shootouts for some reason. He'll get better with experience, but geez, what a surprise, he's only looked like a top player paired with Couts.

Oh really? You blame coaches for issues now?

When did you learn to do that?

 

[baudib1]

I complain about the Flyers' horizontal passing game all the time, glad to see it was addressed by Gordon. It especially hurts against a patient, slow team like the Kings:
From the Athletic:

In Gordon’s mind, the problem was a lack of urgency when it came to moving the puck up ice more than anything else. “I think we out-waited ourselves,” he said. “Sometimes it happens on (line) changes, where you have to wait, but there were other times I thought we had an open guy and we just elected not to pass. We’d do multiple D-to-D (passes), and then your forwards are getting to the point where, “Are we gonna stay out here, or change? When’s the puck going to be moved?” So you get to a point where there’s nothing happening, and you’re basically just killing the clock. And then when you finally do make a play, they’ve adjusted, and they’ve gotten set up, and you’ve created a wall that makes it hard for you to get through.”

 

[Starat327]

Oh really? You blame coaches for issues now?

When did you learn to do that?

It's only been what, 20 games on a roster that "doesn't have the talent" either.


Man, the change in opinion and the speed it happened is impressive

 

[Tripod]

I complain about the Flyers' horizontal passing game all the time, glad to see it was addressed by Gordon. It especially hurts against a patient, slow team like the Kings:
From the Athletic:

In Gordon’s mind, the problem was a lack of urgency when it came to moving the puck up ice more than anything else. “I think we out-waited ourselves,” he said. “Sometimes it happens on (line) changes, where you have to wait, but there were other times I thought we had an open guy and we just elected not to pass. We’d do multiple D-to-D (passes), and then your forwards are getting to the point where, “Are we gonna stay out here, or change? When’s the puck going to be moved?” So you get to a point where there’s nothing happening, and you’re basically just killing the clock. And then when you finally do make a play, they’ve adjusted, and they’ve gotten set up, and you’ve created a wall that makes it hard for you to get through.”

My big issue is that when the forwards are covered, and our D are NOT moving the puck up to them, they rarely double back toward the D in an attempt to get open. You then see the D pass it to a F who is standing still being covered and they just try and deflect the puck into the OZ, losing possession.

When the Flyers actually attack as a unit, they are really good at creating scoring chances.

 

[deadhead]

It's only been what, 20 games on a roster that "doesn't have the talent" either.


Man, the change in opinion and the speed it happened is impressive

Nah, I called this the day Hakstol was fired, everyone wanted to blame the coach and ignore any warts on their favorites.
It's been the "island of misfit toys" for two years, and no coach can fix such obvious mismatches.
Some changes will come from prospects, but I expect Fletcher to make a couple big moves.

It's not that they don't have talent, it's that they don't have the right talent.

JVR or Voracek, but not both.

Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Morin, Hagg, at least one LHD has to go.
Myers, Gudas, Friedman, need to add a RHD.

Simmonds traded, Laughton to 4LW, Frost, Farabee? Need a RW.

At least the goalies seem to be fixed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nah, I called this the day Hakstol was fired, everyone wanted to blame the coach and ignore any warts on their favorites.
It's been the "island of misfit toys" for two years, and no coach can fix such obvious mismatches.
Some changes will come from prospects, but I expect Fletcher to make a couple big moves.

It's not that they don't have talent, it's that they don't have the right talent.

JVR or Voracek, but not both.

Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Morin, Hagg, at least one LHD has to go.
Myers, Gudas, Friedman, need to add a RHD.

Simmonds traded, Laughton to 4LW, Frost, Farabee? Need a RW.

At least the goalies seem to be fixed.

And yet you've been passing judgement on Gordon and his quality as coach after a quarter season, when nearly 300 games wasn't enough for you to make a single judgement on Hakstol.


It's quite the amazing double standard. Are you angry at Gordon for replacing your guy?

 

[baudib1]

My big issue is that when the forwards are covered, and our D are NOT moving the puck up to them, they rarely double back toward the D in an attempt to get open. You then see the D pass it to a F who is standing still being covered and they just try and deflect the puck into the OZ, losing possession.

When the Flyers actually attack as a unit, they are really good at creating scoring chances.

It frustrates me to no end because I watch Vegas and their D - who are not, as a group, more talented than the Flyers' - consistently make stretch passes that hit a winger moving with speed. The Pittsburgh-Vegas game a couple weeks ago was an absolute clinic in quick transitions.

Our forwards are stationary and our D are always waiting for them to do something.

 

[Foggy14]

He was 69% Corsi the previous game vs Vancouver as well. A team high 5v5 both games.

Unfortunately, he does need to do a better job rotating back on defense on that play. Even if Raffl's turnover was bad.

Yeah, I wish he had covered Ghost's spot the moment he (Ghost) went in on that ill-timed pinch and left a lane wide open for Kempe.

My concern is that Misha was the only guy to get benched after a bad play where there was a lot of responsibility to go around.

After some good work (like earlier in that same shift when he blocked Kempe off the puck behind our net which allowed us to start a rush) I would have liked to have seen Gordon tell him what he did wrong and get him back out on the ice. How else is he going to grow as a player?

 

[Starat327]

Nah, I called this the day Hakstol was fired, everyone wanted to blame the coach and ignore any warts on their favorites.
It's been the "island of misfit toys" for two years, and no coach can fix such obvious mismatches.
Some changes will come from prospects, but I expect Fletcher to make a couple big moves.

It's not that they don't have talent, it's that they don't have the right talent.

JVR or Voracek, but not both.

Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Morin, Hagg, at least one LHD has to go.
Myers, Gudas, Friedman, need to add a RHD.

Simmonds traded, Laughton to 4LW, Frost, Farabee? Need a RW.

At least the goalies seem to be fixed.

No, no one ignored the warts. We just wanted Hak to stop playing bad players over better players. This is where youre confused.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, no one ignored the warts. We just wanted Hak to stop playing bad players over better players. This is where youre confused.

In fact, we were recognizing there were issues. The problem is that Hakstol was making those issues far more prominent instead of trying to coach around them.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yeah, I wish he had covered Ghost's spot the moment he (Ghost) went in on that ill-timed pinch and left a lane wide open for Kempe.

My concern is that Misha was the only guy to get benched after a bad play where there was a lot of responsibility to go around.

After some good work (like earlier in that same shift when he blocked Kempe off the puck behind our net which allowed us to start a rush) I would have liked to have seen Gordon tell him what he did wrong and get him back out on the ice. How else is he going to grow as a player?

This x a ****ing billion + infinity.

 

[BernieParent]

My big issue is that when the forwards are covered, and our D are NOT moving the puck up to them, they rarely double back toward the D in an attempt to get open. You then see the D pass it to a F who is standing still being covered and they just try and deflect the puck into the OZ, losing possession.

When the Flyers actually attack as a unit, they are really good at creating scoring chances.

 

[DancingPanther]

How come every time I click on a f***ing thread in this place people are still talking about Dell Hikestink

f***ing insane.

Jake is a beast. Patrick is possessed. Can't win em all, start another streak. Simple as that

 

[Tripod]

Yeah, I wish he had covered Ghost's spot the moment he (Ghost) went in on that ill-timed pinch and left a lane wide open for Kempe.

My concern is that Misha was the only guy to get benched after a bad play where there was a lot of responsibility to go around.

After some good work (like earlier in that same shift when he blocked Kempe off the puck behind our net which allowed us to start a rush) I would have liked to have seen Gordon tell him what he did wrong and get him back out on the ice. How else is he going to grow as a player?

I don't think he got benched for not covering Ghost like he should have.

He got benched for his lazy ass backcheck. Seriously, he was standing straight up, not taking any strides as the puck was entering our zone.

It's one think to make a mistake then bust your ass back to try and make up for it. But to make the mistake then not even try to backcheck is all about effort. And with how Gordon has actually talked to out players, unlike Hak, I am 100% sure he was told why he was being benched and that his lack of effort was inexcusable.

When you are a young player trying to make a team, you can't afford lazy plays. Coaches know mistakes will happen...but effort is something you control 100%. That's all on Pimp. I expect next game, you will see his effort level to be higher.

 

[eramosat]

This x a ****ing billion + infinity.

Yeah, I wish he had covered Ghost's spot the moment he (Ghost) went in on that ill-timed pinch and left a lane wide open for Kempe.

My concern is that Misha was the only guy to get benched after a bad play where there was a lot of responsibility to go around.

After some good work (like earlier in that same shift when he blocked Kempe off the puck behind our net which allowed us to start a rush) I would have liked to have seen Gordon tell him what he did wrong and get him back out on the ice. How else is he going to grow as a player?

Raffl got the hook as well for the most part...they "split" the blame, no?

But I think/expect their sitting had as much to do with Gordon looking to get something going, and someone's ice time was gonna get cut. Gordon just leaned on others in a come-back where his team to that point was simply playing without any effectiveness, he's much more of a line juggler.

Ultimately, Gordon knows as well as anyone in Flyerland what Misha offers, or doesn't offer, and how to coach/treat him at this time. Up to that point, the entire line was doing pretty well, and that should somewhat off-set the foolish all-in Misha play made, after pretty poor initial bets first by Ghost, and then Raffl. That was just a sad string of mental errors that perfectly compounded each other. You couldn't ask for a better play to illustrate some pretty straightforward hockey truisms, and what not to do, especially at the very end of your shift, in a tie game, etc, etc.

 

[Adtar02]

Nah, I called this the day Hakstol was fired, everyone wanted to blame the coach and ignore any warts on their favorites.
It's been the "island of misfit toys" for two years, and no coach can fix such obvious mismatches.
Some changes will come from prospects, but I expect Fletcher to make a couple big moves.

It's not that they don't have talent, it's that they don't have the right talent.

JVR or Voracek, but not both.

Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Morin, Hagg, at least one LHD has to go.
Myers, Gudas, Friedman, need to add a RHD.

Simmonds traded, Laughton to 4LW, Frost, Farabee? Need a RW.

At least the goalies seem to be fixed.

Looks like hagg is out. The rest are better. And a good coach knows how to Adjust to his talent not force players to play differently. Like forcing a square peg in a round hole