Post-Game Talk: #51 | FLYERS (H) vs. Devils (A) | Saturday, May, 1, 2021 | Loss 4-1

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
4,446
4,659
What do you propose?
Our entire outlook at forward has to change for any hope to be sustainable.
Real contenders have Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen level talent at the top end.
Even with an NHL goalie. Even with a well-balanced defense this team will always be a step below until that type of a player is acquired.
I love Couturier but he's not that guy especially when his wingers are 20 yr old Farabee and JvR the slug.

We watched the Islanders series last year when Hart was playing well and the Defense had some semblance of order and Barzal still moonwalked all over everyone because there was noone on the other side who could match his speed and creativity.
Just look at the Rangers games this year with Panarin/Ziba.
Ideally Couts should have a Panarin on his wing or a McDavid/Mackinnon type talent above him. That has dynasty potential.

That would be my first move. Look to acquire a top end forward from the pro ranks first if possible.
Kick the tires on Eichel, look for a fleecing in the vein of Zib to the Rangers.
Of course we have Fletch at the helm so the chance of him pulling a franchise altering coup like that is minimal.

Then I would look to the top of the draft.
I really think the Patrick lottery ******** us because it lured Hex into a false sense of security.
I think he believed that a healthy Patrick wouldve usurped Couts on the top line by now and we'd be on an upward trajectory.
He wouldve been wrong from the jump but thats life.
Get what value you can for G, Couts, Voracek.
Ideally they do what all the great Flyers who were failed by the FO do: win Cups elsewhere.
Great pieces and G's legacy is legend but they dont fit our timeline anymore and will sabotage the tank.

Kevin Hayes will make a great tank commander.
Let him earn some of that money by being the 'face' of this so that your real pieces dont have to bear the brunt of the backlash from this team's neanderthal media.
KEEP all the young D. Provy, Myers, Sanheim, Zamula, York is a great foundation.
Let them grow together as the team scrapes the bottom for 2-3 years.
Hopefully you get at least 1 top end guy who becomes the face of the next generation.
That guys offensive prime now lines up with your D who are all still mid-20's and pissed and hungry after losing the last couple of years.
End the drought.
 
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Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
4,446
4,659
wrap this season up, then get Torts.

head to promised land
I wanted Torts after Berube was fired but he's a coach for vets and hopefully were turning towards a youth movement after this disaster.

I still say Torts wouldve fit the G/Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn core like a glove.
We wouldnt have had the horrible starts to seasons/games as often and those late season scrambles wouldnt have been as draining.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,007
199,712
Tokyo, JP
Then I would look to the top of the draft.
I really think the Patrick lottery ******** us because it lured Hex into a false sense of security.
I think he believed that a healthy Patrick wouldve usurped Couts on the top line by now and we'd be on an upward trajectory.
He wouldve been wrong from the jump but thats life.
Get what value you can for G, Couts, Voracek.
Ideally they do what all the great Flyers who were failed by the FO do: win Cups elsewhere.
Great pieces and G's legacy is legend but they dont fit our timeline anymore and will sabotage the tank.

Kevin Hayes will make a great tank commander.
Let him earn some of that money by being the 'face' of this so that your real pieces dont have to bear the brunt of the backlash from this team's neanderthal media.
KEEP all the young D. Provy, Myers, Sanheim, Zamula, York is a great foundation.
Let them grow together as the team scrapes the bottom for 2-3 years.
Hopefully you get at least 1 top end guy who becomes the face of the next generation.
That guys offensive prime now lines up with your D who are all still mid-20's and pissed and hungry after losing the last couple of years.
End the drought.

Yes, please.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
24,477
43,690
Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
I am embracing the idea more and more that the Flyers' ideal coach will have to come up from the Phantoms, which means replacing Gordon with an up-and-comer. A new AHL coach may be the low-key most important move this off-season, and keeping Gordon there just pushes back the optimal path to real competitiveness.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Not going to happen. Myers is bigger with a healthier resume. Ghost will be a goner unless Fletcher bribes Seattle into taking Jake or JVR. I shudder to think what it would cost to get them to take Jake. JVR has some value but he’s expensive.
Bigger is the only thing Myers is. Unfortunately, you’re probably right that it’ll be enough to give him a slot, since these clowns hate Ghost anyways
 

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,007
199,712
Tokyo, JP
I am embracing the idea more and more that the Flyers' ideal coach will have to come up from the Phantoms, which means replacing Gordon with an up-and-comer. A new AHL coach may be the low-key most important move this off-season, and keeping Gordon there just pushes back the optimal path to real competitiveness.

Spot on, Bernardo.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,319
Armored Train
My point is we're going to lose a player in the ED, Ghost's actual production (metrics are predictive) isn't so great that there will be a gaping hole in the lineup. I'm not claiming he's played badly, just that his absence wouldn't have a big impact on this team going forward - this is not the Ghost of three years ago.

Nor is there reason to think he's going to make some big jump next year, and durability will always be an issue with him.

There is no way I protect Ghost over Myers, Ghost is the better player NOW, but he's also more expensive and we have two young LHDs with a similar skill set (York, Zamula). We have no one (maybe Attard, in 2-3 years IF we sign him) with Myers' skill set.

Now if Seattle wants to take Voracek or JVR, then Ghost can slot into the 3rd pair nicely and PP1 QB next year.

The loss of his puckmoving ability alone is a very noticeable and crippling blow whenever he isn't playing.

People act like losing Niskanen was a debilitating move; Ghost is better than Niskanen.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
I am embracing the idea more and more that the Flyers' ideal coach will have to come up from the Phantoms, which means replacing Gordon with an up-and-comer. A new AHL coach may be the low-key most important move this off-season, and keeping Gordon there just pushes back the optimal path to real competitiveness.

But the question is: do you think Gordon is even remotely in danger of losing his job? If it didn’t happen last awful season, this season doesn’t look more likely. I think the job is his, and they value him. It’s part and parcel why this team is sustainably mediocre. They’re consistently content with “meh.”
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The loss of his puckmoving ability alone is a very noticeable and crippling blow whenever he isn't playing.

People act like losing Niskanen was a debilitating move; Ghost is better than Niskanen.

No, he's not. Ghost is better puck handler and as a PP QB.
Niskanen was heads and shoulders above Ghost as a 5x5 Defenseman when you include all aspects of the position, including not be caught out of position.
 

MacDonald4MVP

Registered User
May 7, 2016
9,931
5,269
I can't kill Elliott for being Elliott. People know how I think that should've been handled, but he was perfectly fine when he was able to be the clear backup early in the season.
To me this season looks like repeat of 14-15. Hayes and Elliot being the new Vinny and Razor. I wonder who is amac in this situation.
 

MacDonald4MVP

Registered User
May 7, 2016
9,931
5,269
But the question is: do you think Gordon is even remotely in danger of losing his job? If it didn’t happen last awful season, this season doesn’t look more likely. I think the job is his, and they value him. It’s part and parcel why this team is sustainably mediocre. They’re consistently content with “meh.”
Ohh yeah how could I forget the unwaivering trust he seems to enjoy no matter what.
 

flyerslducks

Registered User
Feb 15, 2017
12,737
13,584
im ready to move on from ghost. We cant come back with the same d core and expect to compete. Sure, all of the young players can play better and we can make the playoffs.... but are we really going to win???

One of braun/hagg need to go, the other is a 7th d man and only that.
move on from ghost, let him play for another team that wont hold him back/we need a change
sign a top 4 d that can play with prov/sanheim
sign a bottom 4 d that can play with sanheim/myers

provorov-X trade for a better niskanen (hamiltion signing would've been amazing if we had the $)
sanheim-X
york/zamula-myers
braun

this season was a massive failure, more so than any other in the past decade. We have no direction really, no structure, no idea what our roster will look like considering it needs massive changes, and AV is most likely not going anywhere unless he fails again next year. I am also ready to move on from jvr and his price tag. Him + ghost account for 11 million that could've been used to upgrade the team. Both are serviceable players but are players that we can replace from within, and that is not a good thing when we are paying them 11 mill.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,319
Armored Train
No, he's not. Ghost is better puck handler and as a PP QB.
Niskanen was heads and shoulders above Ghost as a 5x5 Defenseman when you include all aspects of the position, including not be caught out of position.

Not this year's Ghost.

You've talked about how much of a loss Niskanen is; you seek to repeat that loss again. We have nobody who replaces his skillset.
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
6,760
16,150
Victoria, BC
I have reached the point where I have almost entirely checked out on this team. Worrying about how they will fix this team is no longer my concern, all I care is that they fix this team, and I don't give a shit how they do it at this point. It could be a team full of Jodi Shellys and Chris Stewarts for all I care, just make this team enjoyable to watch again, and make them good.

I'm out until they fix it.
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
6,073
17,122
Signing Hamilton would be a very, very big deal. Why he’d want to come play for the martini genius is the question though. There likely isn’t a defenseman in the league who has as good an impact on his team’s shot attempts (quality & otherwise) than Hamilton.

This is ridiculous: EV RAPM 2018-2021
6A7D6074-A87A-419E-9D1A-5260D3355D6A.jpeg
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
37,543
74,542
Philadelphia, Pa
Signing Hamilton would be a very, very big deal. Why he’d want to come play for the martini genius is the question though. There likely isn’t a defenseman in the league who has as good an impact on his team’s shot attempts (quality & otherwise) than Hamilton.

This is ridiculous: EV RAPM 2018-2021
View attachment 428859

Pfft let me know when he can clear a crease. Until then he can stay at the museums he loves so much.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
6,770
6,814
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
Ghost isn't an issue, nor he is payed more than value of his play. Prime Pronger wouldn't be enough to overcome our coaching.
Nothing is going to change as long as the coaching staff at Philly and LV remain the same. Making changes with players will only be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. We need new coaches that will miss the iceberg. The present ones are smiling while heading straight for it.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,319
Armored Train
Signing Hamilton would be a very, very big deal. Why he’d want to come play for the martini genius is the question though. There likely isn’t a defenseman in the league who has as good an impact on his team’s shot attempts (quality & otherwise) than Hamilton.

This is ridiculous: EV RAPM 2018-2021
View attachment 428859

I look forward to him being signed, then dubbed Hamhero, then being despised by fans and media while Hogg absorbs adoration and gets credit for anything Hamhero does
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
24,477
43,690
Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
But the question is: do you think Gordon is even remotely in danger of losing his job? If it didn’t happen last awful season, this season doesn’t look more likely. I think the job is his, and they value him. It’s part and parcel why this team is sustainably mediocre. They’re consistently content with “meh.”

Do you go to children's parties and tell them
that Santa doesn't exist
? I begrudgingly agree; my sole logical avenue for replacing Gordon is as part of a hypothetical purge of assistant coaches. I apparently enjoy building my own pedestals to watch them topple in dismal failure.
 
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