# 50 goals, 40 assists = 30 goals and how many assists?

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Dumb and nobody, Nov 8, 2019.

?

## 50 goals and 40 assists is equal to 30 goals and how many assists?

22.1%

6.6%

46.9%

15.8%

8.6%
1. ### draft dayRegistered User

Joined:
Oct 7, 2017
Messages:
4,923
1,771
Trophy Points:
101
60 assist.
Just imagine if 50 of those assist came on the other player scoring 50 goals. He'd still be setting up another 10 goals.

2. ### Hockey OutsiderRegistered User

Joined:
Jan 16, 2005
Messages:
5,443
2,378
Trophy Points:
166
See this thread - Examining the value of the secondary assist

In recent history, for forward and at even strength, a goal and primary assist have virtually the same value. Secondary assists have quite a bit less - about two-thirds of a goal.

3. ### Zaide마지막처럼

Joined:
Aug 11, 2009
Messages:
91,285
3,172
Trophy Points:
186
Location:
あなたの頭

4. ### 780ilRegistered User

Joined:
May 29, 2018
Messages:
9,105
8,592
Trophy Points:
101
Gender:
Male
Location:
Edmonton AB
I'd say 70-75

5. ### biotkRegistered User

Joined:
Jan 3, 2017
Messages:
5,402
4,303
Trophy Points:
111
Location:
Buffalo
When a team wins a game in which they scored 3 goals, all with 2 assists, so 9 total points, over a team that scores 4 goals, all with 1 assist, so 8 total points, then I will consider assists to be as valuable as goals.

6. ### SaltcreekRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 23, 2016
Messages:
760
443
Trophy Points:
59
This is a flawed argument. What percentages of goals scored are unassisted and how many games have multiple unassisted goals by a single team?

I am willing to bet that these numbers are very low.

7. ### biotkRegistered User

Joined:
Jan 3, 2017
Messages:
5,402
4,303
Trophy Points:
111
Location:
Buffalo
Not a single goal in my scenario was unassisted, but thanks for coming out.

8. ### SaltcreekRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 23, 2016
Messages:
760
443
Trophy Points:
59
Oop . You are correct. My apologies, insomnia getting the better of me.

9. ### RegalRegistered User

Joined:
Mar 12, 2010
Messages:
15,313
3,119
Trophy Points:
156
Location:
Vancouver
I've talked about this before in threads where the predictability is tested, and I wonder at what point the differences are largely due to variance. Essentially the larger the number, the less random variance is going to affect it, since a difference of 1 is a smaller impact on points than total assists, which is a smaller impact than primary assists, etc.

10. ### CiccarelliUncle Gelart

Joined:
Dec 17, 2005
Messages:
1,387
131
Trophy Points:
121
Assists are super cookie cutter stat in otherwise a very manly sport. You see big guys with beards and all going to the refs to get a secondary assist for leaving the puck to another D behind your own goal. Wow, you really contributed to the goal greatly. I would be fine with crediting one guy with the assist, but really football has it right, only goals count.

11. ### 1865Fired Dave Hakstol

Joined:
Feb 28, 2005
Messages:
14,865
2,661
Trophy Points:
186
Location:
Manchester, UK
I mean, technically there is.

There's 2 assists available per goal scored after all. A team could have a pair of 50 point players and only have scored 50 total goals after all. Having two 50 goal scorers means you've scored 100, it is much more desirable and it's a harder act than getting 50 assists. That's why last season 31 players registered 51 assists whereas only 2 scored 50 goals.

For me, a 50 + 30 season is as impressive and valuable as a 30 + 80.

Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
12. ### Paul4587Registered User

Joined:
Jan 26, 2006
Messages:
24,812
4,388
Trophy Points:
186
we have ourselves a broken record here.

13. ### MXDOriginal #4

Joined:
Oct 27, 2005
Messages:
40,041
3,607
Trophy Points:
186
Occupation:
60, all things being equal, which they never quite are.

14. ### Filthy DanglesChip n Chase

Joined:
Oct 23, 2014
Messages:
17,696
18,612
Trophy Points:
166
Location:
Ittoqqortoormiit
50 + 40 = 30 + x

90 = 30 + x

90 - 30 = x

60 = x

x = 60

MXD likes this.
15. ### QwardBecause! That's why!

Joined:
Jul 23, 2010
Messages:
16,165
1,767
Trophy Points:
156
Location:
Behind you, look out
Wait, what time did the train leave Cleveland again?

16. ### wetcoastRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 20, 2018
Messages:
4,602
1,227
Trophy Points:
84
Gender:
Male

So let's take a real example here.

Is Jonathan Cheechoo really more valuable than Joe Thornton in 05-06?

Cheechoo 82-56-37-93
Thornton 81-29-96-125

The difference from your example is that Cheechoo has 6 more goals and 7 more assists and Jumbo Joe has one less goal and 16 more assists.

Clearly using your example Jonathan was more impressive and valuable than Jumbo Joe right?

Cleary the Hart voters saw things really differently that year.

Also note how many 50 and 40 plus goal scorers fared that year.

17. ### Dumb and nobodyRegistered User

Joined:
Jun 15, 2007
Messages:
5,993
3,303
Trophy Points:
156
Voters and fans alike saw that it was Thornton feeding Cheechoo.

If Cheechoo was putting up those numbers by himself on a different team, it would be a different story.

If you want a counter example, look at the 2011 voting when Corey Perry won it over Daniel.

18. ### wetcoastRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 20, 2018
Messages:
4,602
1,227
Trophy Points:
84
Gender:
Male
Did you even look at the players from other teams and the lines they had that year?

Danny Heatley 50-53-103 distant 10th in voting.

Even Ovechkin was only 6th in voting with a 52-54-106 line.

Also the Perry example doesn't support the assertion I was responding to as Perry only had 9 more goals than Daniel and Daniel had only 6 more points.

If 50-30-80 is clearly as valuable as 30-80-110 we would see most examples of this spread actually make sense but in reality it doesn't.

Heck even look at the next year 06-07 when you see these 2 lines

Crosby 36-84-120
Lecavalier 50-52-56-108

Using the example I was replying to and the one you seem to be supporting then you would have to argue that Vinny was a better player than Crosby that year?

That makes zero sense.

19. ### Dumb and nobodyRegistered User

Joined:
Jun 15, 2007
Messages:
5,993
3,303
Trophy Points:
156
I just don't think Hart trophy voting means all that much for this poll question. There are so many more narratives at play for the Hart. I just took issue with your Cheechoo example.

I still think Jagr deserved the Hart over Thornton that year by the way.

20. ### M88KRegistered User

Joined:
May 24, 2014
Messages:
2,795
1,340
Trophy Points:
109
Holy **** are you of Asian decent by chance ? You just did voodoo with numbers and letters

Filthy Dangles likes this.
21. ### dr robbieLet's Go Pens!

Joined:
Feb 21, 2012
Messages:
2,711
294
Trophy Points:
94
Location:
St. Louis
I think assists should be more valuable than goals because they make goals look cooler. 3 goals = 2 primary assists = 1.5 secondary assists = 1.25 tertiary assists. Only way this makes sense.

/sarcasm if you don't catch it - I'm just tired of this never ended discussion with biased people on both ends pulling for "their guy"

22. ### wetcoastRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 20, 2018
Messages:
4,602
1,227
Trophy Points:
84
Gender:
Male

The formula that 50-30 + 30-80 is ridiculous when put to the test that was the point, Cheechoo wasn't the only example that year.

They are out there year after year.

23. ### ZulussRegistered User

Joined:
May 19, 2011
Messages:
1,684
566
Trophy Points:
109
Hart voting is notorious for snubbing players on non-playoff team.
A glaring example from today is McDavid.
Ovechkin in 05/06 was nominated for Lindsay (then Pearson).

24. ### wetcoastRegistered User

Joined:
Nov 20, 2018
Messages:
4,602
1,227
Trophy Points:
84
Gender:
Male

Fair enough take Hart voting out of it, do (you) people think that Cheechoo, Heatley, Ovechkin and Kovalchuk (all guy with 50 goals and Kovo had the lowest points with 98) were all better than Thornton that year?

The formula presented to me 50-30-80=30-80-110 would mean yes right?

The formula I was responding to simply doesn't hold water.

Joined:
Apr 11, 2016
Messages:
919