GDT: #5: FLYERS at Oilers, Wednesday, Oct. 16, 2019, 9:30 pm ET

[MacDonald4MVP]

So if they have all perfect situations they will score , good to know. Sounds like describing 4th liners.

And by top guys I said 3, and they aren’t exactly our top guys

Nope, if you put talented players with other talented players and leverage them in offensive situations then you are much more likely to succeed. Now put Ghost with your 4th line defensive specialists, Braun with top line and you are back to what we watched for past how many years.
However if you opt to build a roster based on talent alone and not some roles you have to fill then we don't even need to talk about it and roll 4 lines perfectly capable of scoring and you don't have to feel the need to chase matchups, shelter players and other nonsense.

Like when Colin Miller got traded majority of this forum was like, nah he is just third pairing dman and we need steady defensive partners for our young players. How do you like Braun putting puck right on Calgary's stick for the first goal then?

 

[Striiker]

If they were going to call up Farabee they wouldn't have signed Stewart.

 

[Limeyjim]

The fourth line and 6th defenseman have definitely been a problem. G/JVR/Voracek/Hayes/Ghost have largely been fine, it's a simple matter of shots not going in. They're outgenerating/outchancing the opposition by pretty wide margins.

The Flyers' bottom 6 has 2 goals in 4 games. Vegas has 8 goals from their bottom 6 in 7 games.
xGF%
Nosek 55.47
Carrier 55.03
Reaves 50.42

The VGK 4th line is outplaying the opposition consistently. Their 3rd line is not so hot but
Glass 49.3%
Eakin 39.7%
Zykov 36.5%
Pirri 40.9%

still better than
Pitlick 27.8%
Stewart 36.1%
Raffl 38.9%
Bunnaman 42.0%

The fourth line and 6th defenseman have definitely been a problem. G/JVR/Voracek/Hayes/Ghost have largely been fine, it's a simple matter of shots not going in. They're outgenerating/outchancing the opposition by pretty wide margins.

The Flyers' bottom 6 has 2 goals in 4 games. Vegas has 8 goals from their bottom 6 in 7 games.
xGF%
Nosek 55.47
Carrier 55.03
Reaves 50.42

The VGK 4th line is outplaying the opposition consistently. Their 3rd line is not so hot but
Glass 49.3%
Eakin 39.7%
Zykov 36.5%
Pirri 40.9%

still better than
Pitlick 27.8%
Stewart 36.1%
Raffl 38.9%
Bunnaman 42.0%

He looked okay in preseason and as an older rookie hes going to have to make the most of his playing time. Im hoping he plays tonight in Edmonton.

Once apon a time i ranked the flyers best d prospects sanheim morin ghost. They then added provorov. One of those 4 guys needs to be good enough to push someone to switch sides as theyre all left handed.

 

[Limeyjim]

The fourth line and 6th defenseman have definitely been a problem. G/JVR/Voracek/Hayes/Ghost have largely been fine, it's a simple matter of shots not going in. They're outgenerating/outchancing the opposition by pretty wide margins.

The Flyers' bottom 6 has 2 goals in 4 games. Vegas has 8 goals from their bottom 6 in 7 games.
xGF%
Nosek 55.47
Carrier 55.03
Reaves 50.42

The VGK 4th line is outplaying the opposition consistently. Their 3rd line is not so hot but
Glass 49.3%
Eakin 39.7%
Zykov 36.5%
Pirri 40.9%

still better than
Pitlick 27.8%
Stewart 36.1%
Raffl 38.9%
Bunnaman 42.0%

 

[Limeyjim]

The fourth line and 6th defenseman have definitely been a problem. G/JVR/Voracek/Hayes/Ghost have largely been fine, it's a simple matter of shots not going in. They're outgenerating/outchancing the opposition by pretty wide margins.

The Flyers' bottom 6 has 2 goals in 4 games. Vegas has 8 goals from their bottom 6 in 7 games.
xGF%
Nosek 55.47
Carrier 55.03
Reaves 50.42

The VGK 4th line is outplaying the opposition consistently. Their 3rd line is not so hot but
Glass 49.3%
Eakin 39.7%
Zykov 36.5%
Pirri 40.9%

still better than
Pitlick 27.8%
Stewart 36.1%
Raffl 38.9%
Bunnaman 42.0%

Umm, why the comparison to the Vegas Golden Knights? Aren't the Flyers playing the Edmonton Oilers tonight?

 

[bennysflyers16]

If they were going to call up Farabee they wouldn't have signed Stewart.

Twar or Bunny will go to the Phantoms

 

[Striiker]

Twar or Bunny will go to the Phantoms

As usual, I'll believe it when I see it.

They haven't earned anyones faith.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Nope, if you put talented players with other talented players and leverage them in offensive situations then you are much more likely to succeed. Now put Ghost with your 4th line defensive specialists, Braun with top line and you are back to what we watched for past how many years.
However if you opt to build a roster based on talent alone and not some roles you have to fill then we don't even need to talk about it and roll 4 lines perfectly capable of scoring and you don't have to feel the need to chase matchups, shelter players and other nonsense.

Like when Colin Miller got traded majority of this forum was like, nah he is just third pairing dman and we need steady defensive partners for our young players. How do you like Braun putting puck right on Calgary's stick for the first goal then?

Jake and JVR aren't playing with talented players ?????? They have both played with OUR MOST TALENTED player

Brauns play was awful, Jake springing Flames on a short handed 2 on 1 was awful, Ghost turning puck over on PP was Awful, there was lots of awful last night, high paid players included.

Half here said Nisky wasn't good too, people are wrong all the time

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

As usual, I'll believe it when I see it.

They haven't earned anyones faith.

They Jon Sim'd it in the pre-season. Looked great there, has yet to do shit in the regular games.

 

[bennysflyers16]

As usual, I'll believe it when I see it.

They haven't earned anyones faith.

Me too, but neither looks very good. I still think Twar could make a nice 4th liner ( nothing higher ) , but Bunny has no shot imo.

Twar >>> Bunny by quite a margin

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I sent a personal email to Dave Tippett asking him to put Manning in the lineup. Hope it works.

I support this.

 

[Striiker]

Me too, but neither looks very good. I still think Twar could make a nice 4th liner ( nothing higher ) , but Bunny has no shot imo.

Twar >>> Bunny by quite a margin

If they were able to recognize when players look bad then we wouldn't have Hagg and Stewart on the roster.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

So I guess man-nips is here to stay. He can bunk with Hogg, assuming the floor will support that heaviness.

Can he at least run that POS Neal into the boards?

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Or Hagg into the boards?

 

[Garbage Goal]

In year's past you could blame it exclusively or largely on coaching, but it's not at that point anymore. It's just a combination of both at this point. I like AV, apart from his roster selections. Hate our assistants and they've been abject failures their whole NHL careers. PP seems to imply this isn't changing. We're a relatively old team at this point, our forward group, core included, half consists of guys in or around their early 30's at forward. Giroux, Voracek, JVR, in a couple years Hayes and Couturier. Half our D consists of guys that arguably shouldn't be in the NHL at all or are well into their 30's and previously thought to be on the decline (Hagg, arguably Braun the former and Braun/Niskanen the latter). In the NHL age where youth and speed are hugely important, that's not good. Which is a completely self-inflicted injury considering the large amount of young guys who could be added but never are (Myers, Morin, Frost, Farabee, NAK, Vorobyev, Friedman, Vorobyev, etc.) and the consistent under-utilization or misuse of certain players (Sanheim/Ghost in the former case, Provorov as a PP2 QB for the latter). If this season doesn't work, it's for this reason, that it's composition and coaching at this point in nearly equal amounts, that they should just tear it down and go full rebuild.

 

[landsbergfan]

If they were going to call up Farabee they wouldn't have signed Stewart.

nah dude...Farabee can't play the 4th line. That is Chris Stewart's roll

 

[bennysflyers16]

nah dude...Farabee can't play the 4th line. That is Chris Stewart's roll

Ya the one positive about Farabee, AV sure sounded like he only sees him as a top 9 fwd, and thats good.

 

[landsbergfan]

Jake and JVR aren't playing with talented players ?????? They have both played with OUR MOST TALENTED player

Brauns play was awful, Jake springing Flames on a short handed 2 on 1 was awful, Ghost turning puck over on PP was Awful, there was lots of awful last night, high paid players included.

Half here said Nisky wasn't good too, people are wrong all the time

They've barely played with Couturier

also an important distinction should be made between "not good" and "not worth $5.75 million per year plus 1 million of Gudas' salary"

 

[Garbage Goal]

Couturier might be our best all-around player, but historically he's not an offensive driver relative to point/goal scoring against other 1st/2nd line forwards. Not in a face of the franchise or superstar kind of way. Giroux has always been that guy, case in point being that Couturier's best output and offensive breakout came with Giroux on his left wing.

 

[Striiker]

nah dude...Farabee can't play the 4th line. That is Chris Stewart's roll

Stewart -> dumpster (preferably on fire)
Twarynski -> 4th line
Farabee -> 3rd line

 

[Rebels57]

Couturier might be our best all-around player, but historically he's not an offensive driver relative to point/goal scoring against other 1st/2nd line forwards. Not in a face of the franchise or superstar kind of way. Giroux has always been that guy, case in point being that Couturier's best output and offensive breakout came with Giroux on his left wing.

I'm not great with advanced stats, mainly because I don't know where to find them, but I am pretty sure this is incorrect.

 

[landsbergfan]

Couturier might be our best all-around player, but historically he's not an offensive driver relative to point/goal scoring against other 1st/2nd line forwards. Not in a face of the franchise or superstar kind of way. Giroux has always been that guy, case in point being that Couturier's best output and offensive breakout came with Giroux on his left wing.

or maybe Giroux's best output came from playing with Couturier

 

[Garbage Goal]

I'm not great with advanced stats, mainly because I don't know where to find them, but I am pretty sure this is incorrect.

I'm not even arguing advanced stats. Someone mentioned Couturier being our best player in relation to JVR/Voracek struggling to score points and having played with our best player. Which is a bad argument in that context because, historically and consistently, Giroux has been our best offensive player and raises the offensive output of his teammates. Not Couturier, even if his all-around play might suggest he's arguably our best forward/player.

Couturier has 8 seasons in the NHL, before the last two he never reached 40 points and was surely never in the top 60 of point production. He's fared much better in ES production, but you can't use a lack of PP scoring as a credit to him since he's not very good on the PP historically. IIRC, we started using Giroux on Couturier's wing two seasons ago. The same time Couturier jumped from a sub 40 point player to a 5o, 70+ point and 30+ goal producer. That's not really a coincidence.

 

[VladDrag]

Couturier might be our best all-around player, but historically he's not an offensive driver relative to point/goal scoring against other 1st/2nd line forwards. Not in a face of the franchise or superstar kind of way. Giroux has always been that guy, case in point being that Couturier's best output and offensive breakout came with Giroux on his left wing.

It's was mutually beneficial.

Couts is one of the best ES play drivers in the league. Giroux scored so well because Couts was his center. Couts scored so well because he was playing with legit top 6 talent.

 

[Garbage Goal]

or maybe Giroux's best output came from playing with Couturier

I'm sure there was much mutual benefit, but one player was a sub 40 point player prior to playing with the other for six consecutive seasons and the other had been an elite point producer in the NHL for seven seasons prior. Including having paced for only a few points less than that career high many, many seasons prior.

So I am also sure, in the context of a discussion about offensive output, the benefit was much more in Couturier's favor the last couple seasons.