GDT: 5/21/18 - 8:00PM EDT - #1A Tampa Bay @ #1M Washington [ECF GAME 6]

[Antiramie]

Show me an NHL coach who's been fired in this situation.

You won't find one.

You can scream that mantra all you want. It doesn’t mean it’s the right decision.

 

[DFC]

I wonder what Coop will do with the lines. I really don’t know what he SHOULD do. I like the idea of splitting up Stammer and Kuch. But there is something to be said to dancing with what brung ya in a game 7.

Next year, cup or no cup, I hope they get split.

TKO.

 

[T REX]

Our guys just didn't show up for 60.

Cooper slapped me upside the head tombstone style.

It's on now...Game freaking 7. Urgency. We always seem to take our foot off the gas once we get a lead in anything...standing, series, games...I want a killer instinct. Urgency.

 

[DFC]

You can scream that mantra all you want. It doesn’t mean it’s the right decision.

It definitely means it's the only realistic decision though.

 

[Antiramie]

The one who had the most recent good game, I'm guessing.

The one who is a bigger determining factor in our success and who gives his all every game, chief.

 

[Lightning1995]

Our guys just didn't show up for 60.

Cooper slapped me upside the head tombstone style.

It's on now...Game freaking 7. Urgency. We always seem to take our foot off the gas once we get a lead in anything...standing, series, games...I want a killer instinct. Urgency.

If we didn’t see it tonight when Coop was trying stuff I don’t think we’ll see it. Plus who centers Stammer or Point?

 

[DFC]

So you basically just admitted that Kucherov’s past success has made him forever infallible. He has been the embodiment of not shooting and hustling yet you refuse to put him in the same group as all the other players you called out. Despite what you may think, winners don’t rest on their laurels.

...It's been eleven games since he was our best player in a series.

And he's right: There's no great player in the modern era who hasn't had a bad series or two. Kucherov is TWENTY-FOUR. He's been 3rd in NHL scoring two years in a row. He's the rare player who's a ppg in the playoffs over a solid sample size. These guys don't grow on trees. But they do have bad games, and slumps, and prolonged slumps.

Our last two trips to the ECF and beyond and this guy was in the conversation for the Conn Smyth both times, probably a frontrunner once. Now he's had two bad series and he's not a top player in the league? I'm not sure what you think top players look like.

 

[DFC]

The one who is a bigger determining factor in our success and who gives his all every game, chief.

... Except Vasy didn't really turn it on until the Boston series. He had an almost identical regular season to Kucherov, where he played very well in the first half, and then coasted down the stretch. But because he's good lately, he's a bigger part of our success?

I don't even think you're following your own logic here.

 

[Antiramie]

It definitely means it's the only realistic decision though.

You must be fun at parties.

 

[Antiramie]

...It's been eleven games since he was our best player in a series.

And he's right: There's no great player in the modern era who hasn't had a bad series or two. Kucherov is TWENTY-FOUR. He's been 3rd in NHL scoring two years in a row. He's the rare player who's a ppg in the playoffs over a solid sample size. These guys don't grow on trees. But they do have bad games, and slumps, and prolonged slumps.

Our last two trips to the ECF and beyond and this guy was in the conversation for the Conn Smyth both times, probably a frontrunner once. Now he's had two bad series and he's not a top player in the league? I'm not sure what you think top players look like.

There’s a huge difference between “not producing” and not putting in the effort.

How many top 10 guys do you see just lollygagging through Game 6s?

 

[Antiramie]

... Except Vasy didn't really turn it on until the Boston series. He had an almost identical regular season to Kucherov, where he played very well in the first half, and then coasted down the stretch. But because he's good lately, he's a bigger part of our success?

I don't even think you're following your own logic here.

Vasy was shit most of those games because his D looked like total garbage. Maybe we should leverage our blue line too so we can pay Kuch whatever ungodly number you think he’s worth.

 

[Stammertime91]

So you basically just admitted that Kucherov’s past success has made him forever infallible. He has been the embodiment of not shooting and hustling yet you refuse to put him in the same group as all the other players you called out. Despite what you may think, winners don’t rest on their laurels.

Because the Pens couldn't get by the Caps, should they unload Crosby, Malkin and Kessel? Letang was a tire fire, should he be traded? Pavelski, Thornton, Burns and Couture can't get it done - at all, should they move on from them? Should Winnipeg trade Laine and Ehlers because of their inability to get it done? Toews and Kane weren't even in the playoffs. Kane barely did a damn thing in 2015 against us until one goal in game 6. He wasn't leading the charge nor was he the reincarnation of Gretzky. Doughty and Kopitar were swept. Bergeron, Pastrnak and Marchand had their lunch handed to them by a sophomore center. The Predators Forsberg walked the Avalanche d core to the ledge and pushed them off. Where is his team now? Subban who? McDavid is where?

Your expectation of the best players performing every round is unrealistic. Even if they do perform, it does not guarantee success. We don't have the success we've had (which in the end isn't the main goal) the last 4 years without Nikita Kucherov. We would be relying on an FA or via trade RW to fill that slot. Or Killorn, or Callahan at RW. Your tone is entitled and you don't know how lucky we really have it with him. He's like every other player, human, and incapable of carrying his team every round like any other hockey player to ever play the game. He's not infallible. I never said that. Nice strawman though. Be realistic and honest when assessing what is at hand at least. Take a look back at our latest runs and ask yourself who carried us in those rounds. It's rare you find consecutive series where we point to the same guy.

Kucherov is petty and lazy when things don't go his way. He's gotten too used to Stamkos and nerfs his own fame by not playing his own game. They do too much and when they're given a chance, they botch it - at least this round for 86. He's been bad, said it earlier and so did many others you're responding to but you're so hell bent on trying to convince the rest of this board that aren't blind that he's awful. Point is, you're wrong. Very wrong.

Show me one modern player that has performed and been "the guy" every round. Show me one. I'll save you time - it doesn't happen. I'll also add this, when our 4th line won us the game and stepped up, do we blame Kucherov for not scoring to make it a blowout or do we blame players only when we lose? Point beinf, this entire team as a whole minus 5 periods (bar Vasy) has played like dog shit on a summers day in Tampa. There's not one forward who has been a game changer every game or even been impactdul every game, forward or defenseman. We are being outplayed. Simple as that. It's frustrating and of course you want the top dogs to step up and earn it, or at least put an effort, but calm down on wanting him gone. That's some crazy talk.

 

[T REX]

We need to get behind these guys...they fought back...Game 7

Our Ice

Our Time

Let's Go Bolts!

 

[DFC]

You must be fun at parties.

I don't go all Emotional Rage on a night where things don't go my way and lose all sense of logic, believing that completely crazy things might happen because DAMMIT I'M MAD! Which I think is pretty much what you're doing here.

There’s a huge difference between “not producing” and not putting in the effort.

How many top 10 guys do you see just lollygagging through Game 6s?

It happens. And it's almost impossible to really judge a player's effort level from our sofas. It's also impossible to know if he's at 100% right now. If he were still showing bursts of speed and agility, I'd chalk it up to too much finesse, but we're not seeing any of those bursts, so you have to wonder. The Bruins series was chippy.

OR he might just be having a really bad series. Either way, he's a top ten player in the league. Really great players go into huge slumps sometimes. But eleven bad games doesn't negate that he's arguably the second best playoff performer in franchise history, already, at age 24.

Vasy was **** most of those games because his D looked like total garbage. Maybe we should leverage our blue line too so we can pay Kuch whatever ungodly number you think he’s worth.

Vasy was not good in a lot of those games. He's still young, and still improving. But he played his way out of what looked like a sure Vezina. Sure, our D got bad, but everybody on the team aside from Brayden Point and Yanni Gourde mailed the season in, January-April, Vasy included. He was good for a softie per night up until about midway through the Bruin series.

But Vasy has probably been our best player in these playoffs, as of now, so that's all you're going to be able to see when it comes to him vs. Kucherov. In reality, we need both of them.

 

[Antiramie]

Because the Pens couldn't get by the Caps, should they unload Crosby, Malkin and Kessel? Letang was a tire fire, should he be traded? Pavelski, Thornton, Burns and Couture can't get it done - at all, should they move on from them? Should Winnipeg trade Laine and Ehlers because of their inability to get it done? Toews and Kane weren't even in the playoffs. Kane barely did a damn thing in 2015 against us until one goal in game 6. He wasn't leading the charge nor was he the reincarnation of Gretzky. Doughty and Kopitar were swept. Bergeron, Pastrnak and Marchand had their lunch handed to them by a sophomore center. The Predators Forsberg walked the Avalanche d core to the ledge and pushed them off. Where is his team now? Subban who? McDavid is where?

Your expectation of the best players performing every round is unrealistic. Even if they do perform, it does not guarantee success. We don't have the success we've had (which in the end isn't the main goal) the last 4 years without Nikita Kucherov. We would be relying on an FA or via trade RW to fill that slot. Or Killorn, or Callahan at RW. Your tone is entitled and you don't know how lucky we really have it with him. He's like every other player, human, and incapable of carrying his team every round like any other hockey player to ever play the game. He's not infallible. I never said that. Nice strawman though. Be realistic and honest when assessing what is at hand at least. Take a look back at our latest runs and ask yourself who carried us in those rounds. It's rare you find consecutive series where we point to the same guy.

Kucherov is petty and lazy when things don't go his way. He's gotten too used to Stamkos and nerfs his own fame by not playing his own game. They do too much and when they're given a chance, they botch it - at least this round for 86. He's been bad, said it earlier and so did many others you're responding to but you're so hell bent on trying to convince the rest of this board that aren't blind that he's awful. Point is, you're wrong. Very wrong.

Show me one modern player that has performed and been "the guy" every round. Show me one. I'll save you time - it doesn't happen. I'll also add this, when our 4th line won us the game and stepped up, do we blame Kucherov for not scoring to make it a blowout or do we blame players only when we lose? Point beinf, this entire team as a whole minus 5 periods (bar Vasy) has played like dog **** on a summers day in Tampa. There's not one forward who has been a game changer every game or even been impactdul every game, forward or defenseman. We are being outplayed. Simple as that. It's frustrating and of course you want the top dogs to step up and earn it, or at least put an effort, but calm down on wanting him gone. That's some crazy talk.

You’re comparing Kuch to a bunch of stars who are multiple cup winners. Yea that’s where I stopped reading.

 

[Antiramie]

I don't go all Emotional Rage on a night where things don't go my way and lose all sense of logic, believing that completely crazy things might happen because DAMMIT I'M MAD! Which I think is pretty much what you're doing here.



It happens. And it's almost impossible to really judge a player's effort level from our sofas. It's also impossible to know if he's at 100% right now. If he were still showing bursts of speed and agility, I'd chalk it up to too much finesse, but we're not seeing any of those bursts, so you have to wonder. The Bruins series was chippy.

OR he might just be having a really bad series. Either way, he's a top ten player in the league. Really great players go into huge slumps sometimes. But eleven bad games doesn't negate that he's arguably the second best playoff performer in franchise history, already, at age 24.



Vasy was not good in a lot of those games. He's still young, and still improving. But he played his way out of what looked like a sure Vezina. Sure, our D got bad, but everybody on the team aside from Brayden Point and Yanni Gourde mailed the season in, January-April, Vasy included. He was good for a softie per night up until about midway through the Bruin series.

But Vasy has probably been our best player in these playoffs, as of now, so that's all you're going to be able to see when it comes to him vs. Kucherov. In reality, we need both of them.

I’ve wanted Cooper gone for years now. FYI.

 

[Stammertime91]

There’s a huge difference between “not producing” and not putting in the effort.

How many top 10 guys do you see just lollygagging through Game 6s?

Off the top of my head:

Doughty and Kopitar are on hole 18 they've been eliminated so long ago. Subban was sliding around on the ice against Winnipeg nearly every goal against. He was so bad defensively when it mattered its funny hes evwn a Norris candidate this year. Rinne completely laid an egg in game 7 for his team. Hellebuyck had some bad games. Those are the two other Vezina finalists and the other Norris candidates. Bergeron, probably the greatest two way center in the game is home. Burns is home. Letang was responsible for so many goals against I lost track. Crosby turned the puck over in game 6 for a goal against that was the series clincher. Players have bad games. They go through slumps. For crying out loud, the guy that warrants this is Stamkos - not Kucherov. You're kidding yourself if you think other teams stars play lights out game in and game out. And if you want to talk about effort vs production, it's the same thing. Ovechkin gets shit on by nearly everyone because he was allergic to defending.

 

[DFC]

You’re comparing Kuch to a bunch of stars who are multiple cup winners. Yea that’s where I stopped reading.

So the answer is to get rid of Kuch and replace him with Matthieu Joseph?

 

[Stammertime91]

You’re comparing Kuch to a bunch of stars who are multiple cup winners. Yea that’s where I stopped reading.

Because you're too inept to grasp the point. They're home. We aren't. You expect superstars to carry their team every round, they don't. If they did we would have 30 winners every year.

Eichel, McDavid, Karlsson, Thornton, Marleau, Matthews, Burns, Lundqvist, Rinne, Pavelski, Subban, Hall, Pastrnak, Giroux, Panarin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, and the list can go on and on don't have a cup. You can ignore it cause you know you're not making much sense or you can try to be a bit more honest with your assessment. The fanbases of these teams for these modern era players have prayed, wanted and willed their stars to perform when it mattered and.....


...they dont. Those stars have a combined zero cups. Your logic is, other teams stars show up, I point out they are at home and note Kucherov is one of the highest producing players since 2015 in the playoffs, you ignore it. Now I list these out, you'll probably dodge this as well.

At least follow some sort of logic cause the excrement flowing out isn't making any sense.

 

[Sky04]

Show me an NHL coach who's been fired in this situation.

You won't find one.

Although firing him right now is stupid, I still absoultely don't believe Cooper is getting the best out of the roster we have. Has he been better this year then before? Yes but this team still leaves a lot to be desired. Gallant the coach some of us wanted last year has a track record of getting the most out of his roster. Vegas has yet to blow an elimation game, they've closed all 3 teams out the first chance they get, where as you're always weary about the what kind of effort level you'll get from Tampa in the same scenerio.

I'm pretty sure we all had that feeling there was a strong likeihood this team was going to come out flat in an important game like this., that's not just doubt, it's the track record Cooper's Lightning have.

 

[DFC]

I’ve wanted Cooper gone for years now. FYI.

Yeah. I'm not arguing with him wanting him gone. I'm arguing with you thinking that because you WANT him gone, it might actually happen, because you have so much emotional rage you assume Yzerman must have it too. But that's really not how Yzerman works. He went through way, way worse than this as a player, stuck it out, (while a bunch of emotional rage fans were saying the Wings should trade him because they'd never win with him... ... ...) and eventually he won three cups.

But this isn't a guy who's going to throw away a coach who's been to 3 ECFs in 4 years, and an SCF. We can disagree with Cooper's decisions all day long, but his seat won't heat up until we're taking steps back. That's not me arguing it should be that way. It's me saying that's the NHL, and that's Yzerman in particular. I'm not sure what he's ever done that makes you think he's going to suddenly get an itchy trigger finger.

 

[Fabiobest]

Because the Pens couldn't get by the Caps, should they unload Crosby, Malkin and Kessel? Letang was a tire fire, should he be traded? Pavelski, Thornton, Burns and Couture can't get it done - at all, should they move on from them? Should Winnipeg trade Laine and Ehlers because of their inability to get it done? Toews and Kane weren't even in the playoffs. Kane barely did a damn thing in 2015 against us until one goal in game 6. He wasn't leading the charge nor was he the reincarnation of Gretzky. Doughty and Kopitar were swept. Bergeron, Pastrnak and Marchand had their lunch handed to them by a sophomore center. The Predators Forsberg walked the Avalanche d core to the ledge and pushed them off. Where is his team now? Subban who? McDavid is where?

Your expectation of the best players performing every round is unrealistic. Even if they do perform, it does not guarantee success. We don't have the success we've had (which in the end isn't the main goal) the last 4 years without Nikita Kucherov. We would be relying on an FA or via trade RW to fill that slot. Or Killorn, or Callahan at RW. Your tone is entitled and you don't know how lucky we really have it with him. He's like every other player, human, and incapable of carrying his team every round like any other hockey player to ever play the game. He's not infallible. I never said that. Nice strawman though. Be realistic and honest when assessing what is at hand at least. Take a look back at our latest runs and ask yourself who carried us in those rounds. It's rare you find consecutive series where we point to the same guy.

Kucherov is petty and lazy when things don't go his way. He's gotten too used to Stamkos and nerfs his own fame by not playing his own game. They do too much and when they're given a chance, they botch it - at least this round for 86. He's been bad, said it earlier and so did many others you're responding to but you're so hell bent on trying to convince the rest of this board that aren't blind that he's awful. Point is, you're wrong. Very wrong.

Show me one modern player that has performed and been "the guy" every round. Show me one. I'll save you time - it doesn't happen. I'll also add this, when our 4th line won us the game and stepped up, do we blame Kucherov for not scoring to make it a blowout or do we blame players only when we lose? Point beinf, this entire team as a whole minus 5 periods (bar Vasy) has played like dog **** on a summers day in Tampa. There's not one forward who has been a game changer every game or even been impactdul every game, forward or defenseman. We are being outplayed. Simple as that. It's frustrating and of course you want the top dogs to step up and earn it, or at least put an effort, but calm down on wanting him gone. That's some crazy talk.

Kucherov is one of the best snipers in the NHL and, of course, is one of the most telented players we have in our roster.
I hope he'll be with us for many many years.
Penguins have Letand-Crosby-Kessel-Malkin.
We've Stammer-Kucherov-Heddy-Vasy. And Point. The Fab-5 who are too important to think to trade them. We'll represent our key players to win also in the next future.
And I'm sure that Yzerman agrees with me.
Kucherov, in series, has not produces a lot. Ok. But I think it's not only a Kuch fault.
Sorry for what I'm going to write, but, imho, my example is perfect.
Look at Juventus Football Club. Juventus has a big sniper, called Higuain: a man who is able to score tons of goals during the season.
This year he's scored less goals then in the past but the team played a very very consevative type of game. After a goal, the team decreased the offensive power and waited that the opponents made some choise. I mean: everyone behind the ball's line and the opposing team had the ball to created the play.
You understand, now, that for a sniper is very difficult to score tons of goals with this play style.
The same is happening in Tampa right now. We've played 2 very,ultra defensive series, against Bruins and Caps, where our MVP is Vasy and we have been more careful not to take goal against than to score.
Kucherov is a big sniper. And, also for him, it's difficult to play well in these conditions. I think if Tampa will play an offensive game 7, Kucherov will score at least 1 goal.
I don't want to read or listen to trade him. If I'll read a thing like that, probably after 10 minutes, I'll banned...

 

[DFC]

Although firing him right now is stupid, I still absoultely don't believe Cooper is getting the best out of the roster we have. Has he been better this year then before? Yes but this team still leaves a lot to be desired. Gallant the coach some of us wanted last year has a track record of getting the most out of his roster. Vegas has yet to blow an elimation game, they've closed all 3 teams out the first chance they get, where as you're always weary about the what kind of effort level you'll get from Tampa in the same scenerio.

I'm pretty sure we all had that feeling there was a strong likeihood this team was going to come out flat in an important game like this., that's just the track record Cooper's Lightning have.

Sure. I just think that's an entirely different conversation than, "If we lose, Yzerman's going to fire Cooper," which is a paraphrase of how this started.

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

The only reason we aren't already golfing is because of Vasy. I think we will be by Thursday. Just a hunch. This team, repeatedly, is getting dominated and tonight was really embarassing as a fan seeing our 4th line, Coburn and some of our gnats get tossed across the ice. They're bigger, just as fast and make smart plays. We dump it in and if we manage to retrieve the puck by the grace of God, and up giving it right to them. We get the puck in our zone and flick it our or again - give it right to them. Our entire game plan tonight looked like a mix between Lost and Survivor. Neutral zone was completely garbage as it has been for 5 of these games. They zip ONE pass and beat 2-3 of our guys which they manage to make one more and create 2v3 and 1v2 situations in our zone. We lose our coverage and fail to do something about it, or hustle to knock them off the puck. It's the same thing from puck drop to the end of the 3rd. These guys, Cooper or whoever you want to point a finger at, give them too much respect while at the same time their high hockey IQ suddenly fades when they're on the defensive side of the game.

As for the posters blaming Kucherov. Blame Stamkos. Blame Palat whose sorry ass killed damn near everything tonight. Blame McDonagh for failing to clear a puck 345 times. Blame Gourde for losing board battles. Blame Killorn for having 3 solid shifts and disappearing. Blame Johnson for not creating offense. Blame Cirelli for missing his 1v1. Blame Stralman for that awful failed clearance on the first goal. Blame everyone bar Point and Vasy cause they all deserve it.

Kucherov is the best offensive talent we have on this team. He was an inch or two away from 20 posts saying "KUUUUUUUUCHHHH" or "He's been off but there he is!!" We don't run the Eastern Conference ablaze the last 4 years without him. We don't get by the Isles in 5 without him. We don't get by Detroit two years ago that easily without him. We don't come within 1 point from him dragging this team to a playoff spot last year. He had 10 points in 5 games. He scored a crucial goal against Boston late in the series. Not every player is Crosby who can be off and suddenly run up 7 points in 2 games and win a series being 50%. There's no player in the modern era that's been a dominant star EVERY round. Kucherov is a lazy player at times but the problem lies with the team not shooting, hustling, etc - not Kucherov who propelled this team to where it's at. Wanting to get rid of him because he's not performing in one round and a half is laughable. He's the highest producing player since 2015 that's still in the playoffs. That's not a coincidence. Plenty of hall of famers, legends and superstars today don't perform every round.

With that said, I do think Brayden Point is the most valuable skater on our team. Without him we would be at the country club.

This game was a team issue, not a Kuch issue. I really was dumbfounded, they dragged ass all night like it was just some inconsequential preseason romp. Also, I'm not particularly a huge fan of how smug Cooper always is despite efforts like these - it's not the most reassuring.

 

[Bolt 45]

...It's been eleven games since he was our best player in a series.

And he's right: There's no great player in the modern era who hasn't had a bad series or two. Kucherov is TWENTY-FOUR. He's been 3rd in NHL scoring two years in a row. He's the rare player who's a ppg in the playoffs over a solid sample size. These guys don't grow on trees. But they do have bad games, and slumps, and prolonged slumps.

Our last two trips to the ECF and beyond and this guy was in the conversation for the Conn Smyth both times, probably a frontrunner once. Now he's had two bad series and he's not a top player in the league? I'm not sure what you think top players look like.

Eleven games might even be a stretch. He's already had at least one game (3) this series where it wouldn't be crazy to suggest that he was the best player. So, in the one game this series where our backs were really against the wall, Kuch showed up. Scandalous!