5-10 all-time top 10 NHL greatest...

[Sens Rule]

I don't care if you disagree with me saying Stevens is better, but why don't you disagree first with the guy who claims Langway isn't even top 20 all time for defensemen?
He's the one who I strongly was arguing over because he is shortchanging Langway

So in over 100 years of history it is ludicrous to think that Langway is not a top 20 Defenceman? Or a top 100 player?

100 years is a long time. Langway had a short prime, was pretty much a one dimensional defenceman when most of the other great D-Men of his era were significant 2 way threats.

Langway can be a Hall of Famer and not be one of the very best defenceman of All-time.

Borje Salming was in my mind definately a better player over his career than was Langway. Is he a top 20 defenceman or a top 100 player? Mark Howe had a better career than Langway IMO is he a top 20 d-man or a top 100 player? Chelios, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, Bourque, Potvin, Park, Potvin, Savard, Robinson, Coffey were better and they were his peers. And I am forgetting some for sure. Add in the best D-Men from other eras and then Langway is not near the top of the list.

Peak matters - Langway was great for 4 or 5 years and good for others. Most of these D-Men above were at their peaks for 10+ years and played 15-20 year careers. That is a big difference. If you are Bobby Orr 9 seasons of greatness can get you all-time great status. If you are Rod Langway you better be great for longer than he was.

 

[seventieslord]

I can easily see how someone puts Hasek ahead of Roy, but I dont see how Brodeur beats Roy using the same criteria.

It is when trying to wrap my head around this part that I also hit an internal logic failure and reboot.

 

[J0e Th0rnton*]

So in over 100 years of history it is ludicrous to think that Langway is not a top 20 Defenceman? Or a top 100 player?

100 years is a long time. Langway had a short prime, was pretty much a one dimensional defenceman when most of the other great D-Men of his era were significant 2 way threats.

Langway can be a Hall of Famer and not be one of the very best defenceman of All-time.

Borje Salming was in my mind definately a better player over his career than was Langway. Is he a top 20 defenceman or a top 100 player? Mark Howe had a better career than Langway IMO is he a top 20 d-man or a top 100 player? Chelios, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, Bourque, Potvin, Park, Potvin, Savard, Robinson, Coffey were better and they were his peers. And I am forgetting some for sure. Add in the best D-Men from other eras and then Langway is not near the top of the list.

Peak matters - Langway was great for 4 or 5 years and good for others. Most of these D-Men above were at their peaks for 10+ years and played 15-20 year careers. That is a big difference. If you are Bobby Orr 9 seasons of greatness can get you all-time great status. If you are Rod Langway you better be great for longer than he was.

You may want to check and see how I already responded to your "Peers" arguement earlier in this thread. He was better than several of the ones you mentioned last time.

And Yes, I call Salming top 20 all time