Speculation: 4th.OA

[WingsMJN2965]

For me, the target would be Lucas Raymond.

I’d trade:

DeAngelo
Georgiev
22 Overall
2021 2nd

So the main piece Detroit gets back is the one position they're actually strong at.

Makes sense.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

They'll go a good way to turning it around though. They check off 2 boxes amply & are still young/improving. It'd never happen for many reasons, but I'd consider it a good trade if we got those 2 +capdump (1yr) for 4OA + Hirose?

I'd consider it a good trade for Detroit, too, because it's atrocious and weird for Tampa. Why would we move cap out if we're also moving the players we need the cap for? The only 1-year contracts we have after the playoffs will be Coleman (positive value), Goodrow (positive value), Paquette (marginally positive to neutral), and Coburn (neutral)--nothing that mitigates the disaster that is Serg+Cirelli for 4th OA.

 

[devils29]

lmfao what are you expecting those are all decent offers. its 4th OA not 1st

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

When as 4OA been traded outright?

I don’t know the quality of player available at 4 compared to other years. Is it a big drop from 3? Woukd the player drsfted at 4 woukd have gone at say 9 last year or two years ago.

Cirelli+Serg + would be interesting.

I would think two very good players on ELCs or just ending is at least what it would cost.

I remember a weird one in 02. Tampa traded the 4th (Joni Pitkanen) to the Flyers for Ruslan Fedetenko.
Not, the Lightning ended up getting a pass for this because Fedetenko was fairly essential in their cup win, but he was never even close to being worth the 4th pick.

 

[Schemp]

I could see the wings trading the 4th for the 3rdOA to draft Stutzle

 

[TheNewEra]

I could see the wings trading the 4th for the 3rdOA to draft Stutzle

And Ottawa is supposed to magically agree... Why

 

[WingsMJN2965]

lmfao what are you expecting those are all decent offers. its 4th OA not 1st

Let's just break down yours... You want 4thOA for what amounts to two mid to late 1sts, a late 3rd, a dime a dozen winger prospect, (Detroit has plenty, thanks) and a mid 20s winger who couldn't crack the top six even on our shitty team.

Golly, where do I sign up? Take this back to NHL20.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

And Ottawa is supposed to magically agree... Why

Detroit will take on Bobby Ryan.

Now, we can both admit that's a shitty deal for Ottawa, but we can also both admit that it'd be right up Melnyk's alley to move down one spot in the draft to save $15M.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I'd consider it a good trade for Detroit, too, because it's atrocious and weird for Tampa. Why would we move cap out if we're also moving the players we need the cap for? The only 1-year contracts we have after the playoffs will be Coleman (positive value), Goodrow (positive value), Paquette (marginally positive to neutral), and Coburn (neutral)--nothing that mitigates the disaster that is Serg+Cirelli for 4th OA.

Sub T.Johnson ($20M/4yrs) or Y.Gourde ($25.833M/5yrs) instead of 1yr cap dump. Svechnikov & Hirose are our adds. 2 ELC's + Svech (former 1st rd. pick) is recovering from 2 injuries but should be at least a Top9, if not Top6 F soon enough, but won't require much of a raise due to time missed. Has lots to like about him, also big brother of A.Svechnikov (Canes)... helps extend TBL Cup window, plus freeing up $5M to $5.166M/yr in Cap Gold should buy some good pieces @TDLs and/or during seasons, also extends the Cup window.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Sub T.Johnson ($20M/4yrs) or Y.Gourde ($25.833M/5yrs) instead of 1yr cap dump. Svechnikov & Hirose are our adds. 2 ELC's + Svech (former 1st rd. pick) is recovering from 2 injuries but should be at least a Top9, if not Top6 F soon enough, but won't require much of a raise due to time missed. Has lots to like about him, also big brother of A.Svechnikov (Canes)... helps extend TBL Cup window, plus freeing up $5M to $5.166M/yr in Cap Gold should buy some good pieces @TDLs and/or during seasons, also extends the Cup window.

Okay, again, why are we sending Johnson or Gourde if the two players we actually want to use the cap space on will be gone? What "good pieces" are we trading for next TDL? Ovechkin?

Hirose isn't even worth talking about. Don't care about Svechnikov's brother because you're not offering his brother in the trade. Maybe he will be top-6, maybe he won't. We don't need such a project.

So we're back to Cirelli+Serg for 4th OA. Maybe that pick is too much for Sergachev, but adding Cirelli puts it way past good value for Tampa. I don't know whether I should come up with some hypothetical trade of what I think the value is, but I think when you propose a trade for players at this level the end result should make you a little queasy at first. This ain't it.

 

[Cancuks]

Demko + Gaudette + Juolevi

 

[Malaka]

Okay, again, why are we sending Johnson or Gourde if the two players we actually want to use the cap space on will be gone? What "good pieces" are we trading for next TDL? Ovechkin?

Hirose isn't even worth talking about. Don't care about Svechnikov's brother because you're not offering his brother in the trade. Maybe he will be top-6, maybe he won't. We don't need such a project.

So we're back to Cirelli+Serg for 4th OA. Maybe that pick is too much for Sergachev, but adding Cirelli puts it way past good value for Tampa. I don't know whether I should come up with some hypothetical trade of what I think the value is, but I think when you propose a trade for players at this level the end result should make you a little queasy at first. This ain't it.

Would you do 17OA + a top 4 D prospect for sergachev?

 

[goldenbladz1]

our current needs: 2C, 1LD, 1G & possibly 2LD soon.

Prefer 2C to be RHS

How about Strome (2C)-Debrincat (shoots right) and Nicholas Beaudin (LD) for 4OA. Or swap out Beaudin for the 17OA.

 

[bernmeister]

Who's solid at RD? DET? If so I agree.
Figured ANA or NJ are hurting for another good RD, DET could pick another C in Perfetti/Rossi or go LD with Sanderson/Guhle moving down two or three spots while acquiring assets from ANA/NJ.

If I didn't miss any of the details I think you and I are fully eye to eye here.

 

[devils29]

Let's just break down yours... You want 4thOA for what amounts to two mid to late 1sts, a late 3rd, a dime a dozen winger prospect, (Detroit has plenty, thanks) and a mid 20s winger who couldn't crack the top six even on our shitty team.

Golly, where do I sign up? Take this back to NHL20.

You would basically be getting 3 1st round picks. Foote was a recent first round pick who is not a “dime a dozen” winger prospect... in fact he would become your 3rd or 4th best prospect. He has top 6 potential. Plus a young 3rd line center (who would actually be your #2 this year after looking at your roster...) or a 3rd line winger who brings everything. Plus a 3rd round pick. Plus getting rid of one of your crappy contracts... you might not like the trade and would rather use the pick, that’s fine but acting like it’s not fair value is dumb. For a team that needs two of everything you’re getting a TON of futures/ assets here. The fact other red wings fans have already said they liked my proposal and have been trying to tweak it a little should tell you it’s fair value.

 

[Merrrlin]

No way Tampa moves both of those guys. I'd give them 8 for Cirelli alone.

Damn, that's a risky play right there. I like it, though.

Let's just break down yours... You want 4thOA for what amounts to two mid to late 1sts, a late 3rd, a dime a dozen winger prospect, (Detroit has plenty, thanks) and a mid 20s winger who couldn't crack the top six even on our shitty team.

Golly, where do I sign up? Take this back to NHL20.

Not saying I would do the deal, but Foote isn't a dime a dozen prospect.

 

[njx9]

The 3rd or 4th best prospect in a mediocre system, plush with wingers, isn't a particularly great prospect, either. Nor is acquiring a bunch of middle-6 depth (and cap space, of all things) of literally *any* value to a team that has likely incoming depth but utterly lacks top end players.

 

[Tetsuo]

The Nylander + 15th is the best offer. Barring a small trade down to 6th or 7th for instance, interested teams would need to move a significant, meaningful young roster player and their first. No first, then two young top 6/top 4 roster players would need to be coming back. Detroit can take on salary if the return is otherwise good enough.

 

[Pappazzz]

Primeau , Mete and MTL's 1st pick

 

[TheNewEra]

Detroit will take on Bobby Ryan.

Now, we can both admit that's a shitty deal for Ottawa, but we can also both admit that it'd be right up Melnyk's alley to move down one spot in the draft to save $15M.

most likely but we didnt bite the bullet when dealing karlsson so i dont think we do it here since a young star that can sell tickets is worth a lot more. This draft is being marketed as top 3 so those are the ticket sellers. If we were to take finances into account. Plus with Ryan's trophy win it would be the worst time to sell on him publicity wise

Not saying a deal couldnt be made here its just not a deal wings fans would like. Ottawa may have a million picks but we are only slightly ahead in the rebuild compared to the wings. If you want to trade up it may make more sense to trade with LA

 

[Ygg]

Would Detroit accept

Ottawa 5th overall + Dallas 2nd (59ish)
for
Detroit 4th overall
?

It is an overpayment per se, but it's just so the Sens can secure Raymond without risking Detroit drafting him

 

[BergevinBurner]

I could see the wings trading the 4th for the 3rdOA to draft Stutzle

I'd seriously look into it if I was Detroit. When I was watching the world juniors, Stutzle stood out to me the most of any player. I think he has a realistic chance of being the best player to come out of this draft.
Plus, having Seider and Stutzle would be pretty cool.

 

[Dead Thing]

Would Detroit accept

Ottawa 5th overall + Dallas 2nd (59ish)
for
Detroit 4th overall
?

It is an overpayment per se, but it's just so the Sens can secure Raymond without risking Detroit drafting him

Close but counter offer would be 5th. OA + 33rd.OA for 4th.OA

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Would Detroit accept

Ottawa 5th overall + Dallas 2nd (59ish)
for
Detroit 4th overall
?

It is an overpayment per se, but it's just so the Sens can secure Raymond without risking Detroit drafting him

I'd prefer a higher second round pick, but I'd have to go back and look at the previous Top 5 trades to see if that's close to value.

That being said, if Detroit had prior knowledge that Raymond was gonna be Ottawa's pick, and Yzerman knew in his head that he wasn't taking Raymond, they'd be stupid not to drop a spot and pick up a second rounder. (Which is probably why trades to move one spot up in the top 5 almost never happen)

 

[Ygg]

Close but counter offer would be 5th. OA + 33rd.OA for 4th.OA

The 33rd is a massive overpayment, the 59th already is.
Because in the end if Raymond is gone, Perfetti and the best D-man in the draft are still available, which gives the Sens a ****-ton of options through trades