Line Combos: 4th line

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Sens Rule, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. HonestSenator

    HonestSenator Registered User

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    What 4th Line? We don't have a 4th line. Eugene could save about 3MM a year by only playing 3 lines.

    Lazar neil and Kelly barely crack 5 minutes a nite.

    IMHO, I think that's the plan in development.
     
  2. DrEasy

    DrEasy Out rumptackling

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    Lately, Boucher's been mixing up that 4th line when playing on the road (for example by switching Neil and Pyatt around from time to time), so that the home team doesn't create big match ups against our regular 4th line.
     
  3. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    He did a lot of shuffling tonight to avoid having the 3 amigos on a line together. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Should not continue IMO
     
  4. Burrowsaurus

    Burrowsaurus Registered User

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    We are watching neil deteriorate before our eyes.
    (Yes I know he got an assist) but wow. That guy loses a step what seems like every game.
     
  5. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    If we could morf Neil, Kelly and Lazar together I think we'd have one decent 4th line player...
     
  6. Boggletrax

    Boggletrax Registered User

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    The saddest part is that of the three, Neil has the best hands.
     
  7. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    Neil has the best hands, can make the occasional play and can mix it up, Kelly is smart positionally and good defensively, and Lazar can skate ... make 1 player out of the 3 of them.
     
  8. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    I would like to see Smith moved back to centre, he seems to play a lot of centre anyway, he takes a ton of faceoffs & IMO has the size, strength & shutdown ability to play centre on the top line on this team.

    Hoffman - Smith - Stone
    Dzingel - Turris - Ryan
    Kelly - Brassard - Lazar (these two will drive Bob Cole nuts)
    Pyatt - Pageau - Neil
     
  9. Sensinitis

    Sensinitis Registered User

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    Smith is excelling as a winger. No point in putting him as a center. Let him do his thing on the wing and take faceoffs on his strong side.
     
  10. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    It creates a #1 line which people are always saying we don't have, this would create a very good one but people don't like change unless it works really well.
     
  11. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Disagree. Neil is still fine. He has drawn 2 penalties recently and produced lots of chances.

    I think the weakness of the 4th line is Kelly and Lazar. We need a better centre and an actual playmaker on the 4th line. Neil is fine being Neil. He actually still has hands and good offensive instincts. It is why when they aren't playing the 4th line together that Neil is the guy brought up to take occassional shifts with Turris versus the other guys... who get a top 6er added to them.

    I really want White to sign and get called up to end the season and hopefully he can be the answer at centre on the 4th line. If Pyatt is pushed onto the 4th line by trade then that would be huge as well.

    I love Lazar. At least I want to love him because he is so loveable, but Neil is infinitely better then Lazar offensively. With his hands, instincts, passing, shooting. Everything except speed. Lazar has speed and does nothing useful with it at all. Kelly is a decent PKer still but is not really capable of leading a line 5-5.

    To me the only 4th liner that is good at doing what he is supposed to do is Neil. We are too shallow and they are too good, but Smith or Pageau or Dzingel forced to the 4th line would be huge if we acquired player(s) to push them there. And or Pyatt.

    Neil is supposed to be the 11th/12th best forward. Winger on the 4th line that does not PK or PP and is always aggressive and physical and grinding out time in the offensive zone who has the hands and IQ to occaissionally score or create offensive chances. To me he does that job very well.

    The weakness of the 4th line is at centre. Your 4th line centre should really be your 9th/10th best forward and an elite PK guy. Think Van Allen, younger Kelly, younger Pageau, Smith in years past. Neither Kelly or Lazar are up for that role at the moment.

    It is hard for Neil to look good on a 4th line where he is the best offensive player on the line.
     
  12. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    It makes sense in theory. But after struggling for years whenever asked to play wing when he was a centre, the last 2 years as a pure wing he is playing fantastic hockey on the wing (while taking a lot of faceoffs on his good handedness) I question making him a centre again. Smith is a legit 20+ Goal offensive player while playing wing. Do we really want to mess with him and make him a centre again when he is thriving so much on the wing? I think not. But I guess it is an option and maybe his great offensive play would continue. But it may not.
     
  13. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    The were mentioning on the post game show that Ottawa is in talks to get Smith resigned ,this would be a good thing IMHO .As it would allow us to actually see what money we will have moving forward to replace Macarther:nod:
     
  14. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    We absolutely should keep Smith. If we can make a deal and then wait until after the expansion draft to finalize it then all the better.

    Thinking 3 years $11-12 million. Seems high but he is gonna get paid as a UFA.
     
  15. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    Are you not intrigued to see Hoffman the sniper with Stone the setup & playmaker & Smith the grit & finisher together? All three are playing pretty good, I would love to see how they would do together & whether they could be our best line & hopefully one of the better lines in the league. Just hoping.
     
  16. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    Yep , Smitty has earned this next contract.I think it comes in at around 4 years at around 3.6 per
     
  17. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Kinda. But I do worry about messing with Smith because he has been so amazing for like 120 games or so.

    I actually like the idea of Smith-Pageau-Stone. You got a proven track record. It gets Pageau scoring. It is elite defensively with all 3 guys great defenders. It has strong faceoff guys on both sides.

    You play that as your #1 line versus the other teams best line. Then use Stone on PP1 and Pageau Smith as #1 PK.

    Then split up Hoffman from the other top line. Try to get the Turris line up against the other teams best defensive line. Dzingel Turris Ryan or something.

    Then get the best matchup. Hoffman versus a weak line. With Brassard and hopefully a trade pick up but otherwise Pyatt. Get Hoffman the mismatch. Hoffman can make his own space, plus he will still have a good passer in Brassard. Hoffman will feast on weak opposing players.

    Remember peak Sens when Havlat was on the third line behind Hossa and Alfie and just ate up weak match-ups?

    Also back then Alfie got the weaker top 6 linemates because he made a line great on his own. That is what Stone can do.

    I think the coach is following this strategy now to a great degree.

    I mean everything is fluid. Maybe it would make sense to go Hoffman Turris Stone Karlsson Phaneuf at times depending on the lineup. I like making 3 interchangeably good lines and roll em right now. I would like if we added 1 or 2 better forwards and rolled 4 lines even better.
     
  18. trentmccleary

    trentmccleary Registered User

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    I added up all the forwards below the top-9 scorers and it added to something like 10 points in 130 games. It's not like the eye test has made them look any better than that either. They need to go this offseason, maybe keep one to compete for a job. Then wait until UFA dies down and sign cheap, low key guys who are worried about not finding a chair before the music stops. Replace the whole line.

    Smith was struggling to be our 3rd line center because he was too slow, he can't stick handle well enough or make plays. He really doesn't belong at center above the 4th line and would be completely overwhelmed in the top-2 lines. He's found a role and provides center depth when we need it. There's no reason to upset the apple cart here.
     
  19. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    Sort of posted this in another thread but Bailey was sent down again, while I think he could be better than anyone on our 4th line currently. Just based on what he's shown so far(not saying it would last. we don't know that)
     
  20. Wallet Inspector

    Wallet Inspector Registered User

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    I hope Colin White can come in next year to play 3C, so we can push Pageau down.

    Paul-Pageau-Pyatt/Lazar could be our 4th line next year.
     
  21. slamigo

    slamigo Skate or Die!

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    Anyone else would need to clear waivers to be sent down. The 4th line is a train wreck. I appreciated the positive spin that the TSN1200 guys were putting on using the 4th line individually on other lines to help give guys a rest, but that is nothing more than a stop-gap effort.
    A real 4th line should be trusted to be on the ice as a unit. I appreciate Boucher's efforts, but he needs better talent. I like that he's finding a way to use what he's been given but it's not the best scenario for the team. Smart coaching but I really think having a reliable 4th line would be 1000x better.
     
  22. Cosmix

    Cosmix Registered User

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    Fishing! As bait.
     
  23. Cosmix

    Cosmix Registered User

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    My initial reaction was "no", but when I saw your lines, I thought "yes". Replacing Brassard in the top 2 lines just might work as he has not been a great offensive force.

    I still have problems with the 4th liners: Kelly, Lazar, Neil.

    Perhaps play Brassard, Pageau and Pyatt as a 3rd line and run 3 lines instead of 4.
     
  24. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    So now that we have Wingels (and presumably Hoffman back from the flu soon), our 4th line should get bolstered, either by adding Wingels directly to it, or by pushing someone else down onto it (Pyatt I would think)

    So, which of these 4th lines should we go with:

    Pyatt-Kelly-Lazar (Wingels taking Pyatt's spot with Pageau and Hoff)
    Pyatt-Lazar-Neil (Wingels taking Pyatt's spot with Pageau and Hoff)
    Wingels-Kelly-Neil
    Wingel-Kelly-Lazar
    Wingels-Kelly-Neil (not my choice...)
    Kelly-Lazar-Wingels
     
  25. Ismellofhockey

    Ismellofhockey Registered User

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    I'd send Lazar back down while we still can to replace Robinson in Bingo and help him work on his offense a little.

    Dzingel - Turris - Ryan
    Smith - Brassard - Stone
    Hoffman - Pageau - Pyatt
    Kelly - Wingels - Neil or Wingels - Kelly - Neil

    It doesn't do much for our 4th line, but it helps Bingo in their playoff run and it helps Lazar become more than a 4th liner. Bring him back up at the deadline.
     

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