Post-Game Talk: #48 | FLYERS (H) vs. Devils (A) | Sunday, Apr. 25, 2021 | Flyers win 4-3 (3-2 in SO)

[kudymen]

This calls for a new Authenticbot

 

[Rebels57]

Can't we do something to corral the idiots? Iys gotten real bad lately.

Yeah, ignore them.

 

[ybnvs]

no, just series wins.....again, how many SERIES has his teams won during his captaincy ?

well, I'm waiting

He's one guy...

 

[tucson83]

Tell me how Giroux is supposed to win the Flyers games when he's not on the ice for 40/60 of the minutes?

Why do people think one player, a captain usually, is supposed to carry TEAMS to championships?

so you are saying you are ok with giroux not showing up and expecting the younger players to carry him? maybe they should be the leaders and not giroux.

are you telling me if crosby didnt show up in playoff games, they would win cups? best players are suppose to show up, that's what they are paid to do. for some reason you just dont care about them not showing up because of your favoritism and expecting everyone else to do it for them, you are not going to win championships that way.

 

[ybnvs]

so you are saying you are ok with giroux not showing up and expecting the younger players to carry him? maybe they should be the leaders and not giroux.

are you telling me if crosby didnt show up in playoff games, they would win cups? best players are suppose to show up, that's what they are paid to do. for some reason you just dont care about them not showing up because of your favoritism and expecting everyone else to do it for them, you are not going to win championships that way.

The opposition's gameplan against the Flyers since 2012: Shutdown G/V.

Literally, just about as simple as that.

 

[Starat327]

so you are saying you are ok with giroux not showing up and expecting the younger players to carry him? maybe they should be the leaders and not giroux.

are you telling me if crosby didnt show up in playoff games, they would win cups? best players are suppose to show up, that's what they are paid to do. for some reason you just dont care about them not showing up because of your favoritism and expecting everyone else to do it for them, you are not going to win championships that way.

The Flyers wouldn't make it to the playoffs if Giroux wasn't carrying this team through the regular season every year.

Maybe the issue is the guy can't do it for 110 games a year and needs some actual help -- you know, like a GM to surround him with good players and a coach who knows what he's doing.

Wouldn't that be swell?

 

[Prongo]

so you are saying you are ok with giroux not showing up and expecting the younger players to carry him? maybe they should be the leaders and not giroux.

are you telling me if crosby didnt show up in playoff games, they would win cups? best players are suppose to show up, that's what they are paid to do. for some reason you just dont care about them not showing up because of your favoritism and expecting everyone else to do it for them, you are not going to win championships that way.

Crosby also had Malkin/Letang/Fluery. Also an extremely good surrounding cast. Also Crosby is a generational player while Giroux is not. So this is a shit argument and you know that.

 

[Striiker]

Tell me how Giroux is supposed to win the Flyers games when he's not on the ice for 40/60 of the minutes?

Why do people think one player, a captain usually, is supposed to carry TEAMS to championships?

I think the serious answer here is that the people who say that stuff don’t really understand hockey and are bigger fans of other sports where it’s a little more possible for a single guy to play a larger percentage of the game and carry an entire team, like basketball or football. And even then those people still need some help.

For better or worse, hockey is a team sport that requires a team performance to succeed. Whether you’re Giroux or McDavid or MacKinnon or Ovi or Crosby or whoever, you can play at an elite level and be deserving of a cup, but still be bounced out of the playoffs early or miss completely because the rest of the team doesn’t carry their own weight.

The only position in hockey that can actually carry a whole team long term is goalie... so if anything maybe we should blame Giroux for being a forward?

 

[wankstifier]

Playoffs?!

 

[Appleyard]

Gretzky is the greatest player of all-time. Arguably the 2nd greatest "team sport" athlete ever.

Once he left Edmonton his teams got past the 2nd round what? Twice in TEN years. And missed the play-offs 3/10 seasons. And 5/10 years did not get past first round.

He was still arguably the best player (or very close) in the league for the first 6 of those 10 years.

Hockey is a sport where you NEED at very least:

A 1C, a 1D and an above average starter.
7x top 6 fwds
4x top 4 Dmean

to win.

If you DONT have that... you cant win. We have 15 years of data on this post-lockout now. You NEED both high-end players at each of the three main positions AND great depth to have a shot.

 

[Starat327]

Gretzky is the greatest player of all-time. Arguably the 2nd greatest "team sport" athlete ever.

Once he left Edmonton his teams got past the 2nd round what? Twice in TEN years. And missed the play-offs 3/10 seasons. And 5/10 years did not get past first round.

He was still arguably the best player (or very close) in the league for the first 6 of those 10 years.

Hockey is a sport where you NEED at very least:

A 1C, a 1D and an above average starter.
7x top 6 fwds
4x top 4 Dmean

to win.

If you DONT have that... you cant win. We have 15 years of data on this post-lockout now. You NEED both high-end players at each of the three main positions AND great depth to have a shot.

Gretzky was a crappy leader that's why his teams never won. Needed someone strong in the room like Mark Messier.

/s

@Captain Dave Poulin @JojoTheWhale

 

[CSKA1974]

Gretzky is the greatest player of all-time. Arguably the 2nd greatest "team sport" athlete ever.

Once he left Edmonton his teams got past the 2nd round what? Twice in TEN years. And missed the play-offs 3/10 seasons. And 5/10 years did not get past first round.

He was still arguably the best player (or very close) in the league for the first 6 of those 10 years.

Hockey is a sport where you NEED at very least:

A 1C, a 1D and an above average starter.
7x top 6 fwds
4x top 4 Dmean

to win.

If you DONT have that... you cant win. We have 15 years of data on this post-lockout now. You NEED both high-end players at each of the three main positions AND great depth to have a shot.

C'mon , @Appleyard, data-shmata. Just ship Giroux out of town and all problems will be solved
On the serious note, I would also add to the list a coach, who not only can make the personnel above work like a clock, but also can outsmart opposing coach at least 4 times in each series.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Every single one of you should stop talking about hockey and just wear your Giroux t-shirts because you know nothing about hockey

 

[flyersnorth]

Hockey is a sport where you NEED at very least:

A 1C, a 1D and an above average starter.

Well, 1 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Gretzky was a crappy leader that's why his teams never won. Needed someone strong in the room like Mark Messier.

/s

@Captain Dave Poulin @JojoTheWhale

That isn't necessarily untrue - Gretzky is a sloppy, sloppy drunk. He also never won it all without Messier, due mostly to the drinking, while Messier did win it all without Gretzky, due mostly to the cheating. I guess what I am saying is that one of them is a massive drunk, and the other is a massive penis. They are both massive penises, like a really detailed heat map. I don't remember what we were talking about. F*** the Oilers.

 

[04hockey]

Gretzky is the greatest player of all-time. Arguably the 2nd greatest "team sport" athlete ever.

never saw Orr play, huh ?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Every single one of you should stop talking about hockey and just wear your Giroux t-shirts because you know nothing about hockey

 

[kudymen]

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Yeah, the Giroux hate I don’t get. Pretty stupid to think that he along with one or two other players could have brought the cup home in the past decade. This roster has never been close to a true contender in that time. It’s likely that Giroux is considering going to a contender, which I also wouldn’t hate on him for, in which case this “re-tool” might turn into a full blown rebuild very quickly with one of JVR and V gone as well. I’m also not opposed to that, so long as Fletcher is a whole lot more competent than what he’s shown so far and in Minny.

 

[landsbergfan]

I love the logical fallacy in crediting AV with the Flyers success last year while absolving him of blame for this season. If you say a team that is plays well is well coached, then a team playing poorly is poorly coached. Maybe Niskanen should've won the Jack Adams and the Norris.

 

[deadhead]

I'd adjust that Appleyard.

Most of the recent Cup winners had 2-3 top D-men.
Few teams have scoring past their top two lines.
Depth really means players who aren't total liabilities when they're on the ice.
And they have a couple over 30 two way forwards in their top 6.
Most of these teams have an over 30, stay at home D-man who played a major role

Playoff TOI (forwards > 15 minutes, D > 20):
TB:
F: Kucherov, Palat, Point, Cirelli, Killorn (30), Gourde, Goodrow, Coleman, T Johnson
D: Hedman, McDonagh (30), Sergachev, Cernak
Blues:
F: ROR, Schenn, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Perron (30), Sundqvist, Bozak (32), Steen (34)
D: Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester (35)
Caps:
F: Ovechkin (32), Backstrom (30), Kuznetsov, Oshie (31), Wilson, Eller, Stephenson
D: Carlson, Niskanen (31), Orlov
Pens:
F: Crosby, Malkin (30), Kessel, Guentzel, Bonino, Rust [Kunitz (37), Cullen (40), Hornqvist (30)]
D: Dumoulin, Hainsey (35), Maata (22) [Schultz, Daley (33)]
Pens:
F: Crosby, Kessel, Malkin, Hornqvist, Bonino, Hagelin [Kunitz (36)]
D: Letang, Daley (32), Dumoulin
CHI:
F: Toews, Kane, Saad, Hossa (36), Richards (34), Sharp (33), Shaw, Kruger
D: Keith (31), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (33)
CHI
F: Toews, Kane, Hossa (35), Sharp (32), Saad, Shaw, Bickell, Kruger, Smith
D: Keith (30), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (32)

Flyers should retool but have the depth of talent to be a SC contender in the near future with the right moves, but if you're talking 2022-23 then G is 35, Couts is 30, Hayes is 30, JVR and Voracek 33.

Flyers need some young forwards to be their major top six players, Farabee, Frost, Allison, TK, Foerster, . . . with G and Couts and Hayes playing secondary roles in the top six/nine - Patrick failing to develop has set this program back. JVR or Voracek are paid far too much to be a veteran support player like Sharp or Bozak.

On defense, Provorov (26), York (21), Sanheim (26) and one more (Zamula (22) need to at least be a top three but hopefully a top four. Myers (26) developing would be a big boost, but I can see a minute eating veteran being added to this group - Oduya, Dale, Hainsey, Niskanen, Bouwmeester, McDonagh all played major roles on SC winning teams.

Quibbling over the 4th line/3rd pair is a waste of time, it's where you stash specialists (PK, sometimes PP) and marinate young players.
Most of these teams have players like Laughton on their 3rd line.

 

[Starat327]

That isn't necessarily untrue - Gretzky is a sloppy, sloppy drunk. He also never won it all without Messier, due mostly to the drinking, while Messier did win it all without Gretzky, due mostly to the cheating. I guess what I am saying is that one of them is a massive drunk, and the other is a massive penis. They are both massive penises, like a really detailed heat map. I don't remember what we were talking about. F*** the Oilers.

This post is superb.

 

[kudymen]

Let me go out on a limb, I never saw Shakespeare write or da Vinci paint

 

[Appleyard]

I'd adjust that Appleyard.

Most of the recent Cup winners had 2-3 top D-men.
Few teams have scoring past their top two lines.
Depth really means players who aren't total liabilities when they're on the ice.
And they have a couple over 30 two way forwards in their top 6.
Most of these teams have an over 30, stay at home D-man who played a major role

Playoff TOI (forwards > 15 minutes, D > 20):
TB:
F: Kucherov, Palat, Point, Cirelli, Killorn (30), Gourde, Goodrow, Coleman, T Johnson
D: Hedman, McDonagh (30), Sergachev, Cernak
Blues:
F: ROR, Schenn, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Perron (30), Sundqvist, Bozak (32), Steen (34)
D: Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester (35)
Caps:
F: Ovechkin (32), Backstrom (30), Kuznetsov, Oshie (31), Wilson, Eller, Stephenson
D: Carlson, Niskanen (31), Orlov
Pens:
F: Crosby, Malkin (30), Kessel, Guentzel, Bonino, Rust [Kunitz (37), Cullen (40), Hornqvist (30)]
D: Dumoulin, Hainsey (35), Maata (22) [Schultz, Daley (33)]
Pens:
F: Crosby, Kessel, Malkin, Hornqvist, Bonino, Hagelin [Kunitz (36)]
D: Letang, Daley (32), Dumoulin
CHI:
F: Toews, Kane, Saad, Hossa (36), Richards (34), Sharp (33), Shaw, Kruger
D: Keith (31), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (33)
CHI
F: Toews, Kane, Hossa (35), Sharp (32), Saad, Shaw, Bickell, Kruger, Smith
D: Keith (30), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (32)

Flyers should retool but have the depth of talent to be a SC contender in the near future with the right moves, but if you're talking 2022-23 then G is 35, Couts is 30, Hayes is 30, JVR and Voracek 33.

Flyers need some young forwards to be their major top six players, Farabee, Frost, Allison, TK, Foerster, . . . with G and Couts and Hayes playing secondary roles in the top six/nine - Patrick failing to develop has set this program back. JVR or Voracek are paid far too much to be a veteran support player like Sharp or Bozak.

On defense, Provorov (26), York (21), Sanheim (26) and one more (Zamula (22) need to at least be a top three but hopefully a top four. Myers (26) developing would be a big boost, but I can see a minute eating veteran being added to this group - Oduya, Dale, Hainsey, Niskanen, Bouwmeester, McDonagh all played major roles on SC winning teams.

Quibbling over the 4th line/3rd pair is a waste of time, it's where you stash specialists (PK, sometimes PP) and marinate young players.
Most of these teams have players like Laughton on their 3rd line.

Every team that has won has had 7x guys who were top 6 fwds though in terms of production pace wise... and basically every team has had a good, 2-way, 25+ point 4C too. Your depth really does matter.

As for Laughton... yeh... he would be a #8 fwd on most cup winners. A guy who is a 30-35 point player. If you dont have 9 guys who can get 30 points it is quite hard to win.

And tbh the list of Dmen there... no team really has more than 1x legit #1. Though yeh, most have 3x top pairing level guys.

 

[Curufinwe]

Provorov's performance in the shootout is a great example of why you shouldn't pick your shooters based on who had a good game, or who played a lot (Provy had 29:01 ice time).

Hayes became the 6th Flyer to score a SO goal under AV. Laughton should have scored but couldn't elevate the puck enough.