GDT: #47: CBJ @ DAL 8:30EDT "Do or Die Edition"

[FANonymous]

Exactly. That's not "defending Howson," it's supporting fairness and logic. POH is right about which record looks better, but change it to reflect ROW and it's a different story. Howson only suggested the change (after a year in which the CBJ would have benefitted from it, by the way), it was passed by the league because everyone knew that the shootout is a rediculous way to resolve games.

Then let's get rid of it. Why are we ending regular season games in a manner that is vastly different than playoff games? Especially if it's "ridiculous" and especially if we're going to de-value them anyways. It's just a cluster****.

And if we're going to discount wins, perhaps a team should earn less points for winning against a terrible backup goaltender and a team that sends down one of their more potent offensive weapons for that specific game? I mean, wouldn't that win mean less than beating their starting goaltender and full roster?

Also we could discount the goal differential tie breaker since the goal scored in the ridiculous shootout win shouldn't really count the same as a goal scored on the ice in regulation or overtime. Also, empty net goals should be disallowed from the tiebreaker because there isn't even a goalie there trying to stop it, and PP goals should only count as .75 of a regular goal since you had an extra guy on the ice.

I mean, if we're going to look at things logically we might as well fix all the inconsistencies right?

 

[Bobcat110]

Then let's get rid of it. Why are we ending regular season games in a manner that is vastly different than playoff games? Especially if it's "ridiculous" and especially if we're going to de-value them anyways. It's just a cluster****.

Get rid of it? The shootout is our friend this year. The CBJ are in their position now because of the extra shootout points. They wouldn't even have a chance at Detroit and would be a point behind Minnesota today if we got rid of it and went with the old "tie" scoring systems (ties = 1pt per team).

Standings if old tie system was used today:

Detroit 52pts
Minnesota 49pts
Columbus 48pts

 

[1857 Howitzer]

Get rid of it? The shootout is our friend this year. The CBJ are in their position now because of the extra shootout points. They wouldn't even have a chance at Detroit and would be a point behind Minnesota today if we got rid of it and went with the old "tie" scoring systems (ties = 1pt per team).

Standings if old tie system was used today:

Detroit 52pts
Minnesota 49pts
Columbus 48pts

That's why if you get rid of it you have to extend OT in some way. Who knows what the Jackets record would look like had all of the Shootout games gone to a 10 min OT.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Oh, no. Karmic imbalance in the universe. I don't know whether to hate the shootout or ROW. I mean, the ROW tiebreaker has the added bonus of allowing me to hate Howson at the same time, but the shootout is an abomination foisted upon the sport by the devil incarnate, Bettman. And this season they both screw the Jackets, so what to do, what to do!??! Must blame something! Must blame something!

 

[Dr. Fire]

I am going to get down to the arena district extra early on Saturday, and be welled lubed for the game. Damn, I am so proud of this team. Make it or not, win or not, I am going to give these guys my best effort that night. Gonna leave hoarse.

 

[pete goegan]

Then let's get rid of it. Why are we ending regular season games in a manner that is vastly different than playoff games? Especially if it's "ridiculous" and especially if we're going to de-value them anyways. It's just a cluster****.

I agree, get rid of the shootout. The rest of your post is a collection of exaggerations, distortions, and hyperbole. I know that was your intention, but it doesn't help move forward the discussion. Bobcat makes a valid point, though, and DSL provides some comic relief (except for those who actually believe StarTrek provides a sound basis for a philosophy of life and are offended by his sarcasm!).

 

[JACKETfan]

I agree, get rid of the shootout. The rest of your post is a collection of exaggerations, distortions, and hyperbole. I know that was your intention, but it doesn't help move forward the discussion. Bobcat makes a valid point, though, and DSL provides some comic relief (except for those who actually believe StarTrek provides a sound basis for a philosophy of life and are offended by his sarcasm!).

I the shootout!

Some of you youngsters (like Pete) forget how unsatisfying "ties" were. And as a fan, OT losses were harder to take.

With the shootout you get to see 10 minutes of 4 on 4, a consoling 1 pt, and some great SO shooting/goaltending.

Friday Night will be nuts.

I BELIEVE.

 

[IBleedUnionBlue]

I dont like the shootout and I dont think a game should be settled with a skills contest. Its like asking a baseball regulation tie to be settled with a Home Run Derby and a Basketball regulation tie to be settled with a game of H-O-R-S-E.

But my focus isnt the ROW thing. The CBJ could have had 2 more points potentially if the NHL didnt call Calvert for a distinct kicking motion and Foligno for a goaltender interference. These 2 incorrect calls by officials and Toronto had an affect on the playoff race.

 

[DJA]

I the shootout!

Some of you youngsters (like Pete) forget how unsatisfying "ties" were, and how crazy multiple OT's made the league. Especially on a back2back, 10 and 20 minute overtimes almost ENSURED the next night's loss. And as a fan, OT losses were harder to take. You get to see 10 minutes of 4 on 4, a consoling 1 pt, and some great SO shooting/goaltending.

Friday Night will be nuts.

I BELIEVE.

Huh?

When were multiple OTs ever played in the regular season? Also, OT has always been 5 minutes.....

 

[OldGoaltender]

I'm old school, heck I'm old. I like ties. I know it's like kissing your sister but you haven't seen my sister. Anyway why should a team get a point because they have better snipers.

 

[EDM]

I love the shoot out. Shoot outs are not the problem. The problem is the tiebreaker criteria. The number one factor should be head to head competition. Period. Everything else should be secondary. But the idea that one team that has been dominated by the other throughout the seasons should get into the playoffs due to their records against other teams is ridiculous.

But back to this team. I am so looking forward to tomorrow nite. The Gnat should be rocking like it has never been since the last playoff game. Saturday really is for us a sudden death elimination game.

 

[Nordique]

I will admit it, I didn't think we would pick up enough points on the road trip to still be in this. Good job guys proving me wrong.

I thought 4-2 would put us in the hunt. I had no idea it would take a 5-1 run to still be in it, nor did I ever imagine we could actually pull off 10 points on the road in Minn, Col, Ana, LA, SJ, and Dall.

I think if we somehow get in, we might be the scariest team to face, and certainly the most dangerous road team.

 

[blahblah]

Get rid of it? The shootout is our friend this year. The CBJ are in their position now because of the extra shootout points. They wouldn't even have a chance at Detroit and would be a point behind Minnesota today if we got rid of it and went with the old "tie" scoring systems (ties = 1pt per team).

Standings if old tie system was used today:

Detroit 52pts
Minnesota 49pts
Columbus 48pts

And that would be fine. The SO is for suckers and arena football lovers. I liked arena football for like 3 home games, that was about how long I enjoyed the SO.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I love the shoot out. Shoot outs are not the problem. The problem is the tiebreaker criteria. The number one factor should be head to head competition. Period. Everything else should be secondary. But the idea that one team that has been dominated by the other throughout the seasons should get into the playoffs due to their records against other teams is ridiculous.

But back to this team. I am so looking forward to tomorrow nite. The Gnat should be rocking like it has never been since the last playoff game. Saturday really is for us a sudden death elimination game.

So just to be clear under your scenario if this would happen:
Columbus goes 41-41 next year = 82 points
Detroit goes 4-4-74 (extreme I know, but shows how regulation wins should mean more) = 82 points

But Detroit's 4 regular wins are all against Columbus.

Under Howson's way the CBJ gets in.
Under your way a team that is well below 500 (actual record is 4-78) gets in.

Regulation wins should count for more than an OT or shootout win. IMO if you count regulation wins as 3 points (0 to loser) then you could do H2H as first tie breaker but no way can you count a skills competition win as much as a regular win in case of a tie.

 

[JACKETfan]

Huh?

When were multiple OTs ever played in the regular season? Also, OT has always been 5 minutes.....

You are correct, I was channeling way back to the WHL.

 

[EDM]

Jackets David, what are you on this morning? Your so-called hypothetical is completely implausible. Rules should not be developed on the basis of dumb hypotheses. At least that is my view.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

You are correct, I was channeling way back to the WHL.

you mean the WHA (World Hockey Association)?

 

[blahblah]

I thought 4-2 would put us in the hunt. I had no idea it would take a 5-1 run to still be in it, nor did I ever imagine we could actually pull off 10 points on the road in Minn, Col, Ana, LA, SJ, and Dall.

I think if we somehow get in, we might be the scariest team to face, and certainly the most dangerous road team.

Yeah, one of the more dangerous 6-8 seeds. Not sure I really want to see the Rangers either. I don't think Chicago would give us much consideration. Nothing against us, I just don't think they are intimidated by anyone and can play any style.

No matter how this plays out, Saturday is a playoff game. The fans know what is at stake, as do the players. We won't be out of it and maybe we'll give Detroit/Minny something to think about if we build up a big lead on Nashville. Keep putting pressure on these teams and see if they crack.

I did notice last night about two or three players that were playing hesitant. One of them being Johansen. Prout made a couple of untypical plays. This is a great experience for these guys. It was one thing to be chasing and noting decided. It was another to know that if you lost you were officially out of it and you needed to hold on for 10 minutes.

The most desperate player on the ice last night was Atkinson. By a mile. Not always in a good way. I'll be glad to be able to see him temper that desperation. He probably could have had 4 goals last night, but he was hurried a couple of times for no reason.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I did notice last night about two or three players that were playing hesitant. One of them being Johansen. Prout made a couple of untypical plays. This is a great experience for these guys. It was one thing to be chasing and noting decided. It was another to know that if you lost you were officially out of it and you needed to hold on for 10 minutes.

The most desperate player on the ice last night was Atkinson. By a mile. Not always in a good way. I'll be glad to be able to see him temper that desperation. He probably could have had 4 goals last night, but he was hurried a couple of times for no reason.

Absolutely some good points in here. Times when you could see a little tight and a little too fast from some players. Countered by some nice plays made by some vets. I thought Tyutin and Wiz played well, as did Dubi and Letestu.

having steadying hands around should help the kids, combined with the experience of having played these games. And a few more, hopefully.

 

[NotWendell]

The problem is not the shootout (although I'd rather see a 10 minute overtime before one), it's how they current impact standings. Some games are worth 2 points, some are worth 3 points. What?!? So those games are 50% more important or 50% better games?!?

It's an easy fix. ALL games are worth 3 points...

3 pts = regulation win
2 pts = overtime or shootout win
1 pt = overtime or shootout loss
0 pts= regulation loss

P.S. Ban the spin-o-rama for the shootout.

 

[Nordique]

Absolutely some good points in here. Times when you could see a little tight and a little too fast from some players. Countered by some nice plays made by some vets. I thought Tyutin and Wiz played well, as did Dubi and Letestu.

having steadying hands around should help the kids, combined with the experience of having played these games. And a few more, hopefully.

How does Letestu start the season as a healthy scratch? He's been a beast, and he always looks composed and in control. He looks like he has 500 games played under his belt.

 

[pete goegan]

The problem is not the shootout (although I'd rather see a 10 minute overtime before one), it's how they current impact standings. Some games are worth 2 points, some are worth 3 points. What?!? So those games are 50% more important or 50% better games?!?

It's an easy fix. ALL games are worth 3 points...

3 pts = regulation win
2 pts = overtime or shootout win
1 pt = overtime or shootout loss
0 pts= regulation loss

P.S. Ban the spin-o-rama for the shootout.

I agree, that is a good solution. I think the opposition might come from those who feel that it would distort comparisons with prior seasons. Other than that, I can't see why it doesn't make perfect sense (not that I place any value on that opposing argument, either). If the shoot out remains, that's the only scoring costruct that makes any sense.

 

[blahblah]

The problem is not the shootout (although I'd rather see a 10 minute overtime before one), it's how they current impact standings. Some games are worth 2 points, some are worth 3 points. What?!? So those games are 50% more important or 50% better games?!?

It's an easy fix. ALL games are worth 3 points...

3 pts = regulation win
2 pts = overtime or shootout win
1 pt = overtime or shootout loss
0 pts= regulation loss

P.S. Ban the spin-o-rama for the shootout.

That's what I and others proposed a long time ago. I agree with everything in here but one thing. The SO is a major problem. Any pro sport that turns to a skill competition to decide a game as some credibility issues. Like I compared, it would be like deciding a baseball game by a home run derby or basketball with a slam dunk contest.

It's cool for the kids and beer leagues, but professional sports? Sure it's entertaining, but it's embarrassing if you think about it for very long.

 

[Fro]

thought i remembered reading/hearing they have to do the shootout to end the game w/in a certain window for TV. Since the ratings for the most part average lower than others they can't do an overrun for the regular season like other sports have an opportunity to do...dunno...just thought i remembered seeing that somewhere

 

[blahblah]

thought i remembered reading/hearing they have to do the shootout to end the game w/in a certain window for TV. Since the ratings for the most part average lower than others they can't do an overrun for the regular season like other sports have an opportunity to do...dunno...just thought i remembered seeing that somewhere

That's contractual and only matters if you don't want to end in a tie.