#43 wake up or trade him before 2020 season

[Pookie]

Well, here's the thing. just because you say it and you believe it, doesn't make it true. That's how millenials believe the world works. There are facts and realities that can't be swept under the rug for the sake of opinion. The truth of the matter is, you are just plain wrong - the stats say it.

Go on the main board and try to trade Kadri for Couturier, and then come back here. Do it as a Flyers fan trying to trade Couturier even.

I took you up on the challenge

Couturier for Kadri - Straight Up?

So far, it's overwhelmingly no. Couturier is clearly the better player in the eyes of the responses received to-date.

Hasn't been shut down yet.

 

[Morbo]

happy days are here again eh pook?

your kadri crusade simply had to wait till he was on the third line to gain any traction.

 

[Koolboss]

How is is thread not closed - I won't bother going through 6 pages of mostly negative comments

 

[Pookie]

Well @Wafflewhipper ,

I tried to see what folks outside of Leaf Nation felt about your belief that Kadri has the BEST contract in the NHL. We touched on Couturier as an example and even that one didn't go in your argument's favour.

Couturier for Kadri - Straight Up?

 

[Its not your fault]

You should be asking the other person that question. And I will say I'm not young.

EDIT: I was alive the last time the Leafs won the cup. But too young to remember it.

I remeber my drinking years too not so much what I did.

 

[DarkKnight]

Only 12 shots on net tonight.

 

[thewave]

Good job Kadri! Loved it, you showed heart again.

 

[CelticDruid]

Good job Kadri! Loved it, you showed heart again.

Best game in a while if he plays two a row like that I might be convinced.

 

[Pookie]

Only 12 shots on net tonight.

Did any go in?

 

[DarkKnight]

Did any go in?

I don't believe so.

 

[Pookie]

I don't believe so.

Oh.... maybe he should pass more.

 

[Pookie]

I do enjoy good research. Well done.

Now I will list the NHL's top-10 team's 3rd line centres in order of standing.

Tampa - Anthony Cirelli - 0.38PPG, ($728,333)
Calgary - Mark Jankowski - 0.42PPG, ($1,675,000)
San Jose - Joe Thornton - 0.62PPG, ($5,000,000)
Toronto - Nazem Kadri - 0.59PPG, ($4,500,000)
Winnipeg - Adam Lowry - 0.26PPG, ($2,916,666)
Nashville - Nick Bonino - 0.48PPG, ($4,100,000)
New York I - Valtteri Filppula - 0.40PPG, ($2,750,000)
Montreal - Jesperi Kotkaniemi - 0.48PPG, ($925,000)
Boston - Sean Kuraly - 0.26PPG, ($1,275,000)
Washington - Lars Eller - 0.44PPG. ($3,500,000)

The takeaway seems to be, if you can get about 0.40 PPG and a good cap hit, along with decent 2-way play, that is enough - as there is zero correlation between PPG of a 3rd line centre, and a team's win/loss record. The highest scoring 3rd line centre plays on the 23 ranked team.

7 of the teams did it with cap hits for the 3rd line centre under $3.5 million.

It would be interesting to do this for the last 10 cup winners, list their 3rd line centres with PPG and cap hit.

I think we have to separate PPG at EV

Kadri contributes on the PP. 9 points so far and that contributes to his PPG

He doesn’t play PK though.

And quite a few 3Cs do.

We should expect them to have fewer PPG as a result.

 

[kb]

I think we have to separate PPG at EV

Kadri contributes on the PP. 9 points so far and that contributes to his PPG

He doesn’t play PK though.

And quite a few 3Cs do.

We should expect them to have fewer PPG as a result.

I was just keeping it on a more basic level, but I agree that the PP is going to inflate Kadri's PPG numbers relative to most of that list - most of whom do not see any significant time on the PP.

Only 12 shots on net tonight.

Yep. 10 on the PP. 2 at even strength 0,0,0,-1 statline

Is not being able to score on 12 shots a good thing now?

 

[TheProspector]

Its not out there. Find that needle in the haystack!!! Its just not there in a overall context to value to your team???? Just saying because i have looked.

He is phenomenal value.

Oh, yes, I completely agree. It'd have to be a great trade, exploiting a great need of someone else that allowed us to potentially get a good, really young player in return.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Another Kadri thread?

Ok, I can agree that he isn't good defensively, and hasn't been anywhere near as physical since they took Komarov away from him, but he's still pretty good at dumping loose pucks into the net, especially on the PP, and his contract isn't too bad for a 3C.

Can we please put this to rest!

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

You should be asking the other person that question. And I will say I'm not young.

EDIT: I was alive the last time the Leafs won the cup. But too young to remember it.

Just that you were bashing my generation, which also happens to be the same generation as the majority of the players in the NHL. I wanted to know if you were a member of the silent gen, baby boomers, gen X, gen Y/millenials or gen Z.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

For the grit argument, let's acknowledge that outside of Muzzin, Kadri is about all that we offer in terms of grit.

But let's also acknowledge that the grit on offer, has been on sale for awhile now.

He misses Komarov and probably the backing of Martin:

Season	Hits/Game
2015-16	1.95
2016-17	1.51
2017-18 w Leo	1.40
2017-18 w Marner	0.87
2018-19	0.98

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That number went way up in the playoffs, which is what we all care about.

He was averaging 3.5 hits/game. Second highest after Zaitsev.

 

[Stephen]

Without it turning into a "personal crusade" against Kadri, the Kadri-Couturier comment above highlights my own personal wish list to see a big power center in that third line role in support of Tavares and Matthews.

When Kadri is on he can bring a high skill/agitator ingredient to the game, but what I'd like to see is a good match up center on the third line that can bring a real war horse element that can come out, score, rag the puck, set up a cycle and really bring a different look.

 

[sxvnert]

When Kadri is on he can bring a high skill/agitator ingredient to the game

He only brings that when he has a partner in crime on his line otherwise hes forced to rely solely on a skill game which makes him ineffective. Babs should know this.

 

[Pookie]

Another Kadri thread?

Ok, I can agree that he isn't good defensively, and hasn't been anywhere near as physical since they took Komarov away from him, but he's still pretty good at dumping loose pucks into the net, especially on the PP, and his contract isn't too bad for a 3C.

Can we please put this to rest!

The discussion can be about more than performance.

A team can trade a good player for other good players in needed positions

A team can trade a good player for cap relief and to ensure there is a pipeline of talent

When someone responds with “we can’t trade him, he’s doing well”, they seem to assume that a team can only trade players that are performing poorly.

Kadri’s downward trend is well established. Last season’s disappearance wasn’t a blip. This much we know.

We also know he’s still a good player. And that in an of itself provides no immunity from trade discussions that would help improve the team.

Zaitsev, Nylander or Kadri. One of those probably has to move before the start of next season

 

[Brock Radunske]

Actually just recovering from a surgery I had today. Thanks for assuming

I doubt they were actually assuming anything. They were just making a joke.
Also, get well soon.

 

[DarkKnight]

I was just keeping it on a more basic level, but I agree that the PP is going to inflate Kadri's PPG numbers relative to most of that list - most of whom do not see any significant time on the PP.


Yep. 10 on the PP. 2 at even strength 0,0,0,-1 statline

Is not being able to score on 12 shots a good thing now?

So your line spending the entire night in the other teams zone is a bad thing now.

 

[hockeynorth]

Whoever said give him Hyman and Kap, I think you may be right, or AJ and Kap as he gets dirty too. I think it’s time we see:

AJ-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Hyman-Kadri-Kappy
Moore-Gauthier-Brown

That would get a lot of guys going IMO

 

[Nithoniniel]

Considering my verdict after the last game, I feel like I should point out that he was good tonight. Around the net all the time, fished out pucks and had a lot of strong individual play. The last part is why I still think he and Nylander should be broken up. Kadri thrives on personally abusing chaos, he's the most effective on a line that creates a ton of 50-50 situation where Kadri's individual skill can take advantage. Give him a Marleau and Kapanen, and Kadri would look better.

 

[ER89]

Considering my verdict after the last game, I feel like I should point out that he was good tonight. Around the net all the time, fished out pucks and had a lot of strong individual play. The last part is why I still think he and Nylander should be broken up. Kadri thrives on personally abusing chaos, he's the most effective on a line that creates a ton of 50-50 situation where Kadri's individual skill can take advantage. Give him a Marleau and Kapanen, and Kadri would look better.

Agreed. Both of them together, while effective the last few games just don't jive. You can see a lot of times the other standing still when they don't have the puck.

Nith, what is your take on aj/kap? I know it is a bit off topic but 1) which one would be better to play with willy and matty, and 2) which one would work better with naz. My personal opinion is Aj with willy and kap with naz.