Post-Game Talk: #42: Blues at FLYERS, Monday, Jan. 7, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[CSKA1974]

I can’t believe some of the things I’m reading.

People who want to scapegoat Jake and trade him without getting a better player back aren’t being rational.


This post doesn’t even make sense, sorry CSKA

Please explain.

 

[kudymen]

When you shop for a car, do you evaluate parts individually or as a whole thing?
Do you think G is happy with his individual stats right now when the team is in a dumpster?

Gs happiness is irrelevant when discussing his contribution to the team's record.

I can appreciate quality engine while not buying the car because I know the transmission is crap. Not buying the car doesn't imply me thinking the engine has negative value for the car.


Edit - and I'm sure my grammar is way off somewhere..

 

[CSKA1974]

Of course you look at individuals separate from team results... I can't believe you're even attempting to argue this.

Like @kudymen said, by your logic Giroux is a failure too... which obviously isn't the case.

For individuals, including Jake, you look at what positives they're providing (Jake's is scoring) vs what negatives they have (Jake's is defensive play). I think it's pretty clear that he causes goals for (whether it's goals or assists) more than he causes goals against, especially in a normal year when the PP isn't broken so he's scoring there too.

And your Hagg example makes no sense because accumulating hits doesn't help the team win. "Excelling it hits" means nothing, so it's not a positive in his favor.

I think you are missing my point, but it looks like we will agree to disagree.

 

[kudymen]

For the record, I'm frustrated as hell with this team right now. In the morning, i woke up, looked at the final score, rolled my eyes and went to sleep again.
The roster has some obvious holes which are even deepened by underachievers. I just don't see a goal scoring winger who would offset Jake's capability AND whose team would part with said player just like that.

 

[Striiker]

I'll also repeat that I'm not saying it's wrong to be frustrated with the team overall or individual core players who are underachieving. I am too. Extremely frustrated.

All I'm saying is there's a line that gets crossed sometimes, past reasonable frustration/complaining/venting and into absurdity.

 

[CSKA1974]

Gs happiness is irrelevant when discussing his contribution to the team's record.

I can appreciate quality engine while not buying the car because I know the transmission is crap. Not buying the car doesn't imply me thinking the engine has negative value for the car.


Edit - and I'm sure my grammar is way off somewhere..

We've already bought it


As for the team record and individual stats- I believe, individual stats is a mean to an end. not the other way around. Ovi had had superior stats for many years, netting him and his team ultimate frustration before the last year. Lundquist is a top goalie with no great outcome.
I am in awe for what Roo has done for this team over the years. He is by far my favorite player. His play night in and night out draws me to a TV set despite my best judgement.
This conversation took a weird turn as it started with me attempting to explain some fan's frustration with Jake.
It's probably better if we agree to disagree at this point.

 

[Striiker]

It's Ovi and Lundquists individual stats that showed they weren't the guys who needed to be replaced. They weren't the reason for their teams failures.

Nobody said individual stats were the objective... they're just what helps you judge which players will help you reach the real objective.

 

[kudymen]

We've already bought it


As for the team record and individual stats- I believe, individual stats is a mean to an end. not the other way around. Ovi had had superior stats for many years, netting him and his team ultimate frustration before the last year. Lundquist is a top goalie with no great outcome.
I am in awe for what Roo has done for this team over the years. He is by far my favorite player. His play night in and night out draws me to a TV set despite my best judgement.
This conversation took a weird turn as it started with me attempting to explain some fan's frustration with Jake.
It's probably better if we agree to disagree at this point.

I misunderstood, you said we were shopping for a car so I just almost bought it.

You are right, let's agree to disagree there, this will be a long season anyway...

And I also fear a Czech "defending" one of the few Czechs on the team won't do Jake any favours, I might be biased even if I tried hard not to be..

 

[Striiker]

I misunderstood, you said we were shopping for a car so I just almost bought it.

You are right, let's agree to disagree there, this will be a long season anyway...

And I also fear a Czech "defending" one of the few Czechs on the team won't do Jake any favours, I might be biased even if I tried hard not to be..

I'll defend the Czech and you defend the Americans

 

[kudymen]

I'll defend the Czech and you defend the Americans

Just don't sign VdV

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It’s not the coach. Coaches don’t pass into skates or behind players. Coaches don’t chest snipe. Coaches don’t loaf back on defense. Coaches don’t shoot wide.

You’d be hard-pressed to name a player on this team who isn’t overrated by fans. There’s just too many flaws and not enough punch and the emotionless leadership doesn’t help. They possess neither the talent nor the fire to compensate for the mistakes made by so many flawed players.

The coach is always the scapegoat for the players. It’s a tradition as old as sports itself. That doesn’t mean there aren’t bad coaches out there — there are — and really good coaches can make a positive difference. But at the pro level, it’s pretty much a bell curve when it comes to the impact of coaching, IMO.

The bottom line is this team has serious holes at 3 key positions — 2C, 1D, & GK — plus not enough speed & pestiness among its depth forwards — plus a lot of selfish players who consistently force plays & turn it over.

 

[JXC]

The coach is always the scapegoat for the players. It’s a tradition as old as sports itself. That doesn’t mean there aren’t bad coaches out there — there are — and really good coaches can make a positive difference. But at the pro level, it’s pretty much a bell curve when it comes to the impact of coaching, IMO.

The bottom line is this team has serious holes at 3 key positions — 2C, 1D, & GK — plus not enough speed & pestiness among its depth forwards — plus a lot of selfish players who consistently force plays & turn it over.

It’s pretty darned awful from top to bottom.

I wonder if this is rock bottom. Hideous.

 

[JXC]

For the record, I'm frustrated as hell with this team right now. In the morning, i woke up, looked at the final score, rolled my eyes and went to sleep again.
The roster has some obvious holes which are even deepened by underachievers. I just don't see a goal scoring winger who would offset Jake's capability AND whose team would part with said player just like that.

I woke up and remembered this flowchart.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It’s pretty darned awful from top to bottom.

I wonder if this is rock bottom. Hideous.

It’ll all be worth it if they get Hughes.

 

[JXC]

It’ll all be worth it if they get Hughes.

:-D

Heard that before though.

I feel it’s rotten at the core and needs to be torn down irrespective.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They definitely need to ship out a few of their core selfish players.

 

[CSKA1974]

I'll also repeat that I'm not saying it's wrong to be frustrated with the team overall or individual core players who are underachieving. I am too. Extremely frustrated.

All I'm saying is there's a line that gets crossed sometimes, past reasonable frustration/complaining/venting and into absurdity.

I am afraid everyone has a different definition and a scale for that.

 

[CSKA1974]

They definitely need to ship out a few of their core selfish players.

The market is prohibitive right now for any trade. This season is done. It might be beneficial to wait for more advantageous times (i.e. TDL and a draft) and trade from a stronger position. But regardless who they trade for, they first and foremost need an NHL level coach.

 

[pit]

Bernie got layed while dead. Thats definitely more than Fletch so far.

I don't know man, he's been f***ing us pretty hard so far.

 

[Striiker]

I am afraid everyone has a different definition and a scale for that.

I'm not talking about right on the border. Obviously ridiculous stuff.

 

[CSKA1974]

I misunderstood, you said we were shopping for a car so I just almost bought it.

You are right, let's agree to disagree there, this will be a long season anyway...

And I also fear a Czech "defending" one of the few Czechs on the team won't do Jake any favours, I might be biased even if I tried hard not to be..

Nothing wrong with that. nobody, i say nobody, touches Provy and Voro

 

[kudymen]

I woke up and remembered this flowchart.

View attachment 173275

Yeah, the part about talent level is still fitting

Compete is back to shit though

 

[CSKA1974]

I'm not talking about right on the border. Obviously ridiculous stuff.

Sorry, men. Being raised in the USSR, I would say "Let Frustration Ring!". This year fans have earned freedom to be ridiculously frustrated.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sorry, men. Being raised in the USSR, I would say "Let Frustration Ring!". This year fans have earned freedom to be ridiculously frustrated.

I had no hope at all for this season once it was clear Hextall decided that Hakstol was the way, and that Neuvy at minimum didn't need replacing.

 

[Striiker]

Sorry, men. Being raised in the USSR, I would say "Let Frustration Ring!". This year fans have earned freedom to be ridiculously frustrated.

Like I've said multiple times, zero problem with frustration and venting and complaining. I do it a ton too.

That's not at all what I was talking about.