4 teams are figthing for the 1st overall:

[Marshall]

Well, that article certainly makes it look like Pittsburgh management is doing the same thing as the Caps'.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

The Caps & Pens tanked?

Well, that article certainly makes it look like Pittsburgh management is doing the same thing as the Caps'.

Big news.. the only real news is that Columbus got so swept up in winning during this last little 4 game streak, that they forgot by winning they really lose in the long run. I thought mgmt was smarter than that and predicted maybe two ties past 52. For them to be sitting at 60 looking back over their collective shoulders realizing we reduced our chances significantly.. that sucks.

The Caps/ Pens/ Chicago you have good years to look back on, good memories.. we got shiit (Nash and Z make this easier to take... but if you put AO in the middle we got a downhill freight train w/in three years.

 

[Evilo]

Argue the point if you like, but if Pittsburgh management was genuinely interested in icing its best possible team, they would still have Andy Chiodo in the lineup. The team keeps winning anyway, and while that is a major credit to the players and to Olczyk, Patrick and Lemieux cannot be pleased.

This appears to be a fairly balanced article on the subject. Neither team is above reproach at the management level:
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04090/293442.stm

The difference appears to be that when Pitttsburgh tries to tank, they end up winning more games... at least the Caps follow through!

Nope.
Wilkes-Barre is fighting for a playoff post, and right now the focus is on them, and this they get the young guns (Chiodo, Surovy). In fact the Pens will soon send Orpik and co down. Had they sent them down right now, it would have been much closer to tanking that what they do right now. They have Caron and Aubin in nets, two goalies who have played well. Not some ECHL bum.

 

[Marshall]

Nope.
Wilkes-Barre is fighting for a playoff post, and right now the focus is on them, and this they get the young guns (Chiodo, Surovy). In fact the Pens will soon send Orpik and co down. Had they sent them down right now, it would have been much closer to tanking that what they do right now. They have Caron and Aubin in nets, two goalies who have played well. Not some ECHL bum.

That's a double-standard.

The Caps' have a Vezina-winning goalie, who, btw, has had 61 starts this year, hardly a light work-load. 11th in the league with 3612:10 minutes of ice-time. Pens' fans will see him tonight. The Pens' best goalie is in juniors right now.

The Caps' normal back-up probably has to retire due to an arthritic hip condition. Rastislav Stana has been injured, and only recently came back. He got lit up. Ouellet is in Portland, helping the Pirates' playoff push.

Yeats has had 3 starts. Listening to people talk about him you'd think he'd played 20 games. Never mind that he has a .911 save percentage in the NHL, either, which is better than either Aulin or Caron's save percentage and he has a comparable GAA (though in a lot less games). He hasn't stunk.

The Pens sent their best goaltender back to juniors. That was fine, but the Caps start Matt Yeats, and they're bad?

The Caps suck. It's that simple. They committed to a rebuilding plan, and are going through with it. The team stinks, and it's losing, and it has a lot more to do with the defense than the goalie.

Pittsburgh has done the same thing, but has been winning games. Good for them, they are working their butts off, but thinking that the Caps are doing something the Pens aren't is ridiculous. The article (a Pittsburgh paper article) paints a pretty good picture of it.

 

[Drake1588]

Nope.
Wilkes-Barre is fighting for a playoff post, and right now the focus is on them, and this they get the young guns (Chiodo, Surovy). In fact the Pens will soon send Orpik and co down. Had they sent them down right now, it would have been much closer to tanking that what they do right now. They have Caron and Aubin in nets, two goalies who have played well. Not some ECHL bum.

The Caps have sent down a number of their top prospects, citing the exact same reasons. The sports pages of the Post are ridden with quotes to that effect. Portland is in a playoff race and the Caps are trying to get them into the AHL post-season.

At least, that is what management of both teams are saying as to their reasons.

And Olaf Kolzig is still playing hockey. He is playing tonight against Pittsburgh, in fact.

 

[EroCaps]

The Caps have sent down a number of their top prospects, citing the exact same reasons. The sports pages of the Post are ridden with quotes to that effect. Portland is in a playoff race and the Caps are trying to get them into the AHL post-season.

At least, that is what management of both teams are saying as to their reasons.

And Olaf Kolzig is still playing hockey. He is playing tonight against Pittsburgh, in fact.

He is?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The Caps' have a Vezina-winning goalie, who, btw, has had 61 starts this year, hardly a light work-load. 11th in the league with 3612:10 minutes of ice-time. Pens' fans will see him tonight. The Pens' best goalie is in juniors right now.

The Pens sent their best goaltender back to juniors. That was fine, but the Caps start Matt Yeats, and they're bad?

Two things here...

1. Fleury isn't our best goalie. He will be, maybe as soon as next year, but as of now Caron is better, and possibly Aubin.

2. Fleury was sent back because of developmental issues, his stats were going downhill and he was getting lit up nightly regardless of how well he was playing. Yeats is an ECHL calibur goalie with no future. No comparison. If the Penguins called up Joe Exter you could argue, but until then, no.

 

[Marshall]

Two things here...

1. Fleury isn't our best goalie. He will be, maybe as soon as next year, but as of now Caron is better, and possibly Aubin.

2. Fleury was sent back because of developmental issues, his stats were going downhill and he was getting lit up nightly regardless of how well he was playing. Yeats is an ECHL calibur goalie with no future. No comparison. If the Penguins called up Joe Exter you could argue, but until then, no.

1. You've seen more of them, so I defer to you on this one.

2. If Caron or Aubin get hurt, you'll have a better idea of what's going on. The Caps' regular backup, Sebastien Charpentier, is out. Arthritic Hip Condition. Not coming back this season, maybe not ever. Chronic.

Rastislav Stana, one AHL goalie, was hurt. Ouellet was starting for Portland (developmental issues). Yeats was the backup in Portland (went 2-1-1, 1SO, 2.17 GAA, .928 save%). Who are they going to call up? Of course it's going to be Yeats.

Yeats' performance has been okay, not good, not great, but okay. He's played 140 minutes in the NHL. Barely over two games. I like my arguement fine. I think the "Caps are trying to tank, Pens aren't" arguement is is absurd.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I wouldn't have a problem if our starter was injured too, but Kolzig ain't hurt.

We had our equivelant to Yeats up here in Martin Brochu, but he only played 32 minutes for us. Despite him playing good in that one game he was sent down right away.

Everyone has a problem with Yeats not because he's there, but because he's starting.

 

[Marshall]

I wouldn't have a problem if our starter was injured too, but Kolzig ain't hurt.

We had our equivelant to Yeats up here in Martin Brochu, but he only played 32 minutes for us. Despite him playing good in that one game he was sent down right away.

Everyone has a problem with Yeats not because he's there, but because he's starting.

Started twice. Kolzig's started 60 games. He'll start tonight. That's an issue? Absurd.

 

[EroCaps]

Started twice. Kolzig's started 60 games. He'll start tonight. That's an issue? Absurd.

Marshall, where do you see Kolzig as starting tonight?

 

[Marshall]

Is that upsets you so, then how about this paragraph from the mentioned article:

"The Penguins have demoted effective players such as defenseman Rob Scuderi and goaltender Andy Chiodo to their AHL affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. When they needed replacements, they did not recall the top performers but rather spare-part forward Matt Hussey and journeyman backup goaltender Martin Brochu."

That doesn't greatly offend you as well? Clearly, the Pens are not icing the best possible team they could, either.

 

[Jacob]

I think the argument here is that they aren't sinking quite as low as the Caps are.

 

[EroCaps]

I think the argument here is that they aren't sinking quite as low as the Caps are.

They have better players this year.

This is the Caps first year/quarter of rebuilding, the Pens have been doing it for three years.

 

[Marshall]

I think the argument here is that they aren't sinking quite as low as the Caps are.

Ah, thanks. That makes it more clear me.

I certainly don't agree with that. It's subjective, so I think neither party will be convinced, but I think 'we're tanking with dignity, you aren't' is pretty absurd.

 

[Jacob]

They have better players this year.

This is the Caps first year/quarter of rebuilding, the Pens have been doing it for three years.

They have better players right NOW, but over the course of the season, you can't tell me the Penguins have had more talent on their roster. The Caps had Lang, Bondra, Jagr, Gonchar, etc. etc. for a big chunk of the season.

And no, the Penguins have not been rebuilding for three years. They've been salary dumping for several, but this is the first year of an actual rebuild, I think. They probably should have made the playoffs in 01-02 if not for injuries, and they were in contention for the better part of last season as well (on the outside looking in), employing guys like Daigle, Vujtek and Robitaille instead of young players.

I certainly don't agree with that.

You brought up Brochu. Brochu played less than two periods in mop-up duty, he didn't start back-to-back games.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Chiodo was sent down for the Baby Pens playoff run, nothing more, nothing else. Sebastien Caron isn't exactly a bad goalie to replace him with. Scuderi was also sent down for the same reason. I mean if you'd think it would be a better idea to keep Orpik down there than Scuderi then who's the fool? Both are the only defenseman on the roster who didn't have to clear waivers and both will play for Wilkes-Barre in the playoffs. We couldn't keep both up so it was one or the other...the right decision was made.

Hussey was an emergency call-up as was Brochu. Both were sent down as soon as their respective players were fine. Hussey has 2 goals in 2 games and Brochu allowed one goal in half a game on top of it. The Penguins have already used their limit of 4 AHL call-ups for the playoffs so we couldn't call up a Shane Endicott to replace a guy with a cold...Brochu spent the bulk of his time here on the bench.

The fact of the matter is the Penguins have iced a NHL team in this recent run, the Caps are barely icing an AHL team.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think Caps-Pens is kinda like Oilers-Flames was a few years ago. Both teams were in financial difficulty and having problems making the playoffs, so there appeared to be a little bit of sympathy from one rival team to the other. Well, both are back on their feet and I think both will make the playoffs. Their games have gotten spirited again, more of what we've grown to expect.

Look for the same to occur with Wsh-Pit in a few years, when both become competitive again. Then again, as a Pens fan, I wouldn't mind long-term mediocrity (or worse) for the Capitals...

As for Bondra, I think Kolzig was far more a franchise player than Bondra over the years. I think a team's style and overall game plan factors into the equation. It's like Marian Gaborik right now. At the moment, I don't think you can call him a franchise player, though he definitely CAN be one somewhere else. Minnesota's concept is to NOT have a franchise player. On another club, Bondra might have been one but I don't think he was one in Washington. There's a difference between 'fan favorite' and 'franchise player'.

As for the whole tanking issue, I think it's hogwash. I don't think anybody should judge who plays and who sits or is sent down. It's not so much tanking it as it is taking a long-term winning approach, as opposed to a short-term view. Losing now, not that I think teams purposely make out lineups to or practice how to lose, has been proven to be a nice tonic for winning down the road in the NHL. And quite frankly, when a Pittsburgh or a Washington looks up at the standings, and sees how Ottawa and Tampa Bay have rebuilt their teams, and how Florida and Atlanta appear to be on their way towards joining them fairly soon, why not use the same philosophy/approach.

If you have the time and patience (fan base included), then it's a no-brainer IMHO.

 

[Marshall]

Some really good stuff

Great post.

 

[flyercide]

No, the BLUE JACKETS should win the lottery
Just imagine: Nash--Zherden--Ovechkin

thats what i was thinking... that would be awesome trio to watch for bunch of years.

 

[Marshall]

I stand corrected, the Caps are going with Yates tonight.

I don't like it.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I stand corrected, the Caps are going with Yates tonight.

I don't like it.

 

[Drake1588]

2-1 Caps right now, end of the first period.

 

[EroCaps]

If you're looking for a shameful tank job, look no further than the Pens tonight...I haven't seen such a half-hearted faux attempt at hockey all season, and I'm a Caps fan...

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The Caps dominated the first 9 minutes.

After that it was pretty equal.

I just can't believe the Capitals are actually trying.

Hell I'm suprised they bothered to dress a golie...