# 4 player in the Cap era (2005 onwards).

[NoMessi]

I'm also laughing at the idea of Malkin definitively being above Datsyuk and Thornton. But hey, it's a Daver thread.

Daver has never been fond of Malkin.

And strange that you laugh at Malkin, or were you too young to remember how he tormented the playoffs in 2009, including you guys in the final.

 

[NoMessi]

Problem is he retired 6 years ago now and his last few seasons and especially his last one were not overly great.

I dont agree, he was the favorite, or among the favorites until his injury around new year that year. His second half wasnt that impressive obviously though…

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Chara should be on the list

 

[Iceman]

Problem is he retired 6 years ago now and his last few seasons and especially his last one were not overly great.

Hahah what does that have to do with anything? You don’t deduct ”points” for having an average season.

 

[ESH]

Well, Datsyuk was clearly the best player after the big 3 and if you disagree I don't believe you were paying enough attention.

Lidstrom was better

 

[DDRhockey]

People like to say lidstrom won norris on reputation but so did crosby and ovechkin with conn smythe

 

[Deam78]

Should have options for Lidstrom, MSL and McDavid

 

[authentic]

Lidstrom was better

For the entirety of his career sure, if both are healthy and in their prime I would say Datsyuk was a bit better.

 

[authentic]

Hahah what does that have to do with anything? You don’t deduct ”points” for having an average season.

Lol what it has to do with is that he's only played half the seasons in the cap era and for less than half of them was he one of the best players. Which IMO prevents him from being ranked ahead of players who were atleast as good but played twice as much.

 

[authentic]

Daver has never been fond of Malkin.

And strange that you laugh at Malkin, or were you too young to remember how he tormented the playoffs in 2009, including you guys in the final.

Funny because once Datsyuk showed up he didn't play as great. If Datsyuk played that full series he almost certainly wouldn't have scored as much. But all in all he was probably the best player that regular season and playoffs combined.

 

[authentic]

I dont agree, he was the favorite, or among the favorites until his injury around new year that year. His second half wasnt that impressive obviously though…

His last season?

 

[Love]

Lidstrom and McDavid should be ahead of all poll options

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Malkin is a better player than datsyuk. There was a time where you can say Malkin was the best player in the world. Datsyuk never had that distinction.

 

[NoMessi]

His last season?

Yes, im trying to find the article that NHL.com posted. The usually have a mid-season award every year and I swear I read Lidstrom was considered one of the favorites.

Obviously his season went downhill from there, he got an injury and never found his game again.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Kopitar is being undersold here

 

[Leonhard Euler]

Kopitar is being undersold here

And so is Bergeron

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Easily Kane here for me, no surprise.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Other, Lidstrom

 

[Felidae]

what argument does Joe have over Kane? because he's played longer? accumulated more stats? because if you bring in playoffs, it is not even close.

JT doesn't have the excuse of being on bad teams. Since he has been on San Jose, his worst full season was the 14/15 season when they missed the playoffs. Exclude the lockout season and 14/15, his lowest win total in a season was 43! and they were 2nd in the Pacific!

He is consistently on contending teams and can't lead his team to get it done. Obviously now, he is much older and is limited in what he can do, so his contribution won't be much.

I know it is a team game, however playoff success matters.

Playoffs aside, let's look at individual awards and success:

Hart: 1-1
Ted L. 0-1 Kane
Art Ross: 1-1
Rocket R.: 0-0
Conn Smythe: 0-1 Kane
Calder: 0-1 Kane
First AS Team: 1-3 Kane

Kane Top 10 Hart Finishes: 1, 6, 6, 7
JT Top 10 Hart Finishes: 1, 4, 5, 6, 9, Winner

Kane Top 10 Point Finishes: 1, 2, 5, 9
JT Top 10 Point Finishes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 Winner

Kane has the advantage in goals: 2, 5, 10
JT does not have a top 10 goals finish

The advantage goes to Kane

Agree with most of this, but AS needs context. Thornton had much stronger competition than Kane did.

As for the Ted Lindsay, Thornton competed with Jagr all season for the art ross, I'd say his competition that year was stronger. Also partly because of the tendency for the award to be given to forwards. If you thought the Hart trophy was disproportionately given to forwards, only 3 goaltenders have won the Ted Lindsay (6 have won the Hart if i recall), and 1 defenseman.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

And so is Bergeron

A player who hasn't hit 70pts in 11 years isn't going to be the 4th best player of any era.

 

[Leonhard Euler]

A player who hasn't hit 70pts in 11 years isn't going to be the 4th best player of any era.

Well he's one of the greatest 2 way players of all times. And while his point production may not be up there like that, his impact on his team surely is. The net positive of having him on the ice is often much larger than many players that score more points. There has been few players that tilts the ice in their favor the way Bergeron does in this era.

 

[daver]

Well he's one of the greatest 2 way players of all times. And while his point production may not be up there like that, his impact on his team surely is. The net positive of having him on the ice is often much larger than many players that score more points. There has been few players that tilts the ice in their favor the way Bergeron does in this era.

Great defensively =/= great 2-way play. Crosby has a better case as one of the greatest as he was Top Ten in Selke voting while being the best offensive player.

 

[Leonhard Euler]

Great defensively =/= great 2-way play. Crosby has a better case as one of the greatest as he was Top Ten in Selke voting while being the best offensive player.

Bergeron is great 2 way player. Not just great defensively. You may be the only person I've ever seen to claim otherwise. I will nkt be getting into any Crosby discussion with you as that is besides the point.

 

[daver]

Bergeron is great 2 way player. Not just great defensively. You may be the only person I've ever seen to claim otherwise. I will nkt be getting into any Crosby discussion with you as that is besides the point.

Define "2-way" player. Shouldn't one be great at both aspects of 2-way play?

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Funny because once Datsyuk showed up he didn't play as great. If Datsyuk played that full series he almost certainly wouldn't have scored as much. But all in all he was probably the best player that regular season and playoffs combined.

If Crosby would have had played the full season in 2011 he would’ve had 132 pts...