Post-Game Talk: #4 - 10/11/18 | sharks @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Inferno]

It’s part of learning at the NHL level for an offensive defenseman.. at other levels he was able to use his speed to get back in time. In the NHL that’s harder. These are the “growing pains” everyone seems to be okay when playing the young guys.

Oh for sure. And I wouldn't take him outta the lineup...u know I'm a fan. I'm just not going to call every game he plays in a great game . I'd call him uneven last night.

Observing, not judging.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t think anyone outside of Claesson had a strong game on D.

But there are a few people in here who are saying that ADA was bad. That I can’t agree with, he outplayed his partner who otoh probably played his best game of the season so far (which was still pretty bad, but he looked good in the 3rd)

 

[Off Sides]

I like ADA, my comment is not based on any reputation, he makes some sweet breakout plays even when he is being forced, but he also can be a little too aggressive once up ice. I think he'd learn to adjust if given enough games.

 

[NYR Viper]

Oh for sure. And I wouldn't take him outta the lineup...u know I'm a fan. I'm just not going to call every game he plays in a great game . I'd call him uneven last night.

Observing, not judging.

I would say he was a bit overly aggressive at times. I would also say that the times that he pinched and was caught, the forwards did him no favors in covering for him. Not his best game for sure though

 

[Inferno]

I would say he was a bit overly aggressive at times. I would also say that the times that he pinched and was caught, the forwards did him no favors in covering for him. Not his best game for sure though

Yep..absolutely agreed. I was very disappointed with our forwards covering for our d...it was almost non-existent.

 

[CaptBubba5]

DJGhost again. Vesey, took the night off. Hayes was skating like he had cinder blocks for feet again and had the puck stripped on almost all his attempts at carrying it. It's pretty scary when your 2 "vet" centers play so poorly or have zero impact on the game. The positives covered up those negatives. Howdens goal was brilliant. Smith and Skjei showed the fowards how to lift the puck in order to score. Claesson had a real good first game plus he likes to play the body which is needed more on the back end. Namestnikov was very noticable in a good way. Sitting seems to get some benefits so let's hope Shatty has a good game on Saturday. Glad the boys got the puck for Quinn and his reaction on Bradys goal put a smile on my face. LGR's !!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

As you all know, I am very high on Pionk after last year, but even despite not catching all of the first two games, I am more than comfortable saying he hasn't been as good as he needs to be out of the gate and Quinn was justified in sitting him.

As you also know, I am not a big ADA fan, but I must admit he looked very good against Carolina.

Last night ADA did not look good. He'll always do things with the puck on his stick that impress, thus leaving the impression for those not focusing on his defensive game that he played at least okay, but his game without the puck continues to be a major problem. Last night he had a number of bad pinches, ill-advised joining on the rush (for those of you saying he wasn't at fault on the second goal what's he doing 1/3 of the way into the O-zone when his partner is changing?), and perhaps most troubling of all, simply bouncing off players on D.

You don't make changes (barring injury) after your first win of the season, but he needs to do a lot better than that to stay in the lineup.

 

[RGY]

Staal has been flat out terrible. He look really slow out there and is just making stupid decisions whether its the puck on his stick, his positioning, or in zone coverage. He should be scratched for Pionk.

 

[Inferno]

I would not play Ada with staal. That's a change I'd make right away. I'd have staal with smith tbh.

Skjei Ada
Claesson shatty
Staal smith

And honestly if we're actually trying to out the best lineup out there...

Skjei Ada
Claesson shatty
Smith pionk

 

[kovazub94]

It's funny how different I saw ada vs the rest of ya. All year I'm saying how great and smart and low risk he's playing...and then last .ight happens and everyone is like..he played well except for a few bad plays...and I'm like... He had a lot more than a few bad plays.

I think it's also important to note that I still think his worse game, last night, was still better than any game pionk or shattenkirk has played this far.

Notable reference.

Defensive stalwart he will never be, but ADA just needs to be defensively adequate (which would include some games like last night), but if he sticks around - it will be as an offensive defenseman and for this he needs to stay aggressive.

Now specifically with respect to the 2nd goal against, the surprisingly strong kick save by Burns and a resulting quick ricochet off the boards caught DeAngelo out of position but I think his thought process was correct. If this situation played out 10 times it's likely that in 6-7 ADA catches the rebound on his stick. Also, obviously slow change did not help.

 

[Kovalev27]

Yep..absolutely agreed. I was very disappointed with our forwards covering for our d...it was almost non-existent.

Zucc hasn’t covered for a dman in 2 years and no one says boo. Getting sick of it. That 3 on 1 goal was on him completely. Why isn’t he high there? I’m ready to move him and have been for a while.

Not for nothing but Hank is only reason we’ve been in any of these games. He’s been outstanding to stsrt this season. If/when he comes down to earth this is going to get really ugly.

I’m extremely disgusted with Hayes and Zibanejad. Awful. And why Chytil isn’t getting more mins when those guys are playing that way is beyond me.

 

[kvakklunch]

I dont think Zuccarello plays well at all. I actually hope Quinn benches him and puts a target on his back to perform better.
There are several points to his play that I dont like:
- He is forcing passes too much. Him and Hayes have this thing where they stop skating when they get the puck, which limits the options and often end in a low percentage pass and leading into a turnover.
- I see him not holding the angle to the wall and turning around to recieve the pass, which leads to no forward momentum and he has to pass, because the other players are catching up to him.
- I dont like the position he has in the powerplay. Going into the middle. He should be on the wall, leading the powerplay and shooting the puck, if no plays are available (yes, I know I said shooting). And for that to happen, he needs to play on the correct side. Right side.

Other than that, I love Fast's game. What a player he has become. And Lundqivist missed the tank memo. I voted Mcquaid, Fast and Lundqvist. I actually notice Mcquaid and I like his physicality.

Another thing I noticed during the game was that on the Sharks powerplay, which was fun to watch tbh, they had great passing. And great passing often comes with the tempo of which the passes are made with. Passing fast, opens more space than low speed forced passes. I hope we one day may see the Rangers do such a thing.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[NYR713]

Claesson just gave the organization another reason why Staal should be in the press box until he agrees to a trade... or to retire... or fake a full season IR... or something. Something other than putting him on the ice. I'm cool with losing games and getting better lottery odds, but can't watch this guy destroy development all season. I'll probably have to watch it, but it's f***ing frustrating. I used this analogy last game too... he's a chicken with his head cut off in a field of deep mud. Absolutely no urgency to his game.

So now Claesson is another L shot, stay-at-home type with similar size and grit but skates and handles the puck at least 3 times as well as Staal. And he's 25, so there is some future there. And with a 700k cap hit there is no problem with him sitting as a 7th and filling in to give breaks.

The team agreed to pay the guy $6M this year and take a cap hit of $5.75. They agreed on a clause that says he can't be sent to the minors or traded without his approval. Show me the spot on that contract that says he needs to be on the ice.

 

[Inferno]

Zucc hasn’t covered for a dman in 2 years and no one says boo. Getting sick of it. That 3 on 1 goal was on him completely. Why isn’t he high there? I’m ready to move him and have been for a while.

Not for nothing but Hank is only reason we’ve been in any of these games. He’s been outstanding to stsrt this season. If/when he comes down to earth this is going to get really ugly.

I’m extremely disgusted with Hayes and Zibanejad. Awful. And why Chytil isn’t getting more mins when those guys are playing that way is beyond me.

Yeah lost in all the positivity (not that there's anything wrong with positivity) but the rangers were absolutely manhandled for huge swaths of last game and all season long. Henrik too old to play like this all season.

On the plus side the best forward since training camp was howden and the best defenseman has been Ada.

2 kids that should be key to this team going forward.

 

[NYR713]

Zucc hasn’t covered for a dman in 2 years and no one says boo. Getting sick of it. That 3 on 1 goal was on him completely. Why isn’t he high there? I’m ready to move him and have been for a while.

Not for nothing but Hank is only reason we’ve been in any of these games. He’s been outstanding to stsrt this season. If/when he comes down to earth this is going to get really ugly.

I’m extremely disgusted with Hayes and Zibanejad. Awful. And why Chytil isn’t getting more mins when those guys are playing that way is beyond me.

Concerning the bold area... Not at all. I don't know how you come to the conclusion that is Zucc's fault. Kreider, ADA and Zucc all broke out together from the defensive zone. Those three are now in the play and it's on Staal and Howden to make the judgement on the long line change (2nd Period) or to stay on the ice since 3 guys are already pushing into the O zone. Howden glided his way to the line change, as did Staal.. who at least got there fast enough to throw McQuaid right into the fire.

The 3 on 1 wasn't on anyone completely. It's a mix of bad changes and lack of hustle between coaching, Howden and Staal.

 

[Tawnos]

Horrible ice even by MSG standards and we played a team that made it hard for us. With that said I still have a hard time picking three guys that played well besides Howden and Hank obviously. Fast maybe? Claesson? Smith? Smith of course had the goal but I don’t think he played a good game necessarily. Buch? You want a little more.

Skjei struggled a lot. DeAngelo had a rough night. Ziba didn’t find ice. Kreider wasn’t bad but not good either. Hayes was invisible.

Zucc has a very important role on the team and especially the PP. He still makes plays that you love — but in light of the role he has he isn’t executing well enough. He is often the source for lost pressure on the PP and so forth. He has a longer stick again, he wants to score more? Maybe it should be shorten again.

The bolded are all things I don't care about.

 

[Tawnos]

DeAngelo has a lot of problems with bad pinches, but the only way those are going to work themselves out is if he continues playing. They might not work themselves out, but he's not going to get there in practice or the pressbox.

 

[Off Sides]

Have they posted the practice pairs for tomorrow yet which have Shattenkirk, Staal, McQuaid in and ADA and Pionk scratched?

 

[DutchShamrock]

It’s part of learning at the NHL level for an offensive defenseman.. at other levels he was able to use his speed to get back in time. In the NHL that’s harder. These are the “growing pains” everyone seems to be okay when playing the young guys.

Yeah. I by no means want people coddled but wouldn't a scratch right now hurt his confidence? Make him tighten up?

I'm looking to see if the younger guys are advancing their game towards successful hockey decisions. It's not a failure to me if they made a solid decision that ended with an unsuccessful result. If Quinn is coaching them to pinch then I'm fine with ADA getting burned. He's learning and those failures will help later on. Progress isn't just measured by the numbers.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

Marty, is this you?

(Apologies for inappropriateness)

oh man this is good. I walked right into that one.

 

[Larrybiv]

Concerning the bold area... Not at all. I don't know how you come to the conclusion that is Zucc's fault. Kreider, ADA and Zucc all broke out together from the defensive zone. Those three are now in the play and it's on Staal and Howden to make the judgement on the long line change (2nd Period) or to stay on the ice since 3 guys are already pushing into the O zone. Howden glided his way to the line change, as did Staal.. who at least got there fast enough to throw McQuaid right into the fire.

The 3 on 1 wasn't on anyone completely. It's a mix of bad changes and lack of hustle between coaching, Howden and Staal.

Marc hustled so he wouldn't get the "minus", and poor McQuaid walked into one.
Agree that it was an egregious "team mistake" of something that was unforeseeable, but can be a learning thing on getting to the bench quicker (especially for 2nd period) and maybe a little safer play by ADA and better/smarter play by Zuccha. It all added up to that goal.....probably wouldn't happen in another 40 games, but something to teach on. And we still won.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The McD trade looking better and better with Quinn’s Howden bromance and Hajek’s camp...

 

[DutchShamrock]

I would not play Ada with staal. That's a change I'd make right away. I'd have staal with smith tbh.

Skjei Ada
Claesson shatty
Staal smith

And honestly if we're actually trying to out the best lineup out there...

Skjei Ada
Claesson shatty
Smith pionk

I'm very interested in seeing if McQuaid and Staal are the next 2 to sit. He said shatty sat because of the recovery process coupled with poor play. So Staal could be given the maintenance day. I don't know if anyone is immune to a scratch, especially with 8 D. 4 games in is too early to say one way or the other.

 

[Larrybiv]

Think Howden eventually will be our Stepan replacement. I know it's premature, but I can't help comparing the 2 and see similar attributes. Howden is obviously faster and can use his headiness to eventually become a really good defender like Steps had a reputation for.

 

[offdacrossbar]

As you all know, I am very high on Pionk after last year, but even despite not catching all of the first two games, I am more than comfortable saying he hasn't been as good as he needs to be out of the gate and Quinn was justified in sitting him.

As you also know, I am not a big ADA fan, but I must admit he looked very good against Carolina.

Last night ADA did not look good. He'll always do things with the puck on his stick that impress, thus leaving the impression for those not focusing on his defensive game that he played at least okay, but his game without the puck continues to be a major problem. Last night he had a number of bad pinches, ill-advised joining on the rush (for those of you saying he wasn't at fault on the second goal what's he doing 1/3 of the way into the O-zone when his partner is changing?), and perhaps most troubling of all, simply bouncing off players on D.

You don't make changes (barring injury) after your first win of the season, but he needs to do a lot better than that to stay in the lineup.

he got caught up ice on that goal because ck took that long slapper that dell moved quickly to the boards. 77 was up ice supporting the puck as any good offensive dman would do. he was deep and while he was beaten by the puck and let the play get get behind him, the forwards did nothing at all. in fact they were changing.

not sure if the D change was the issue, the play changes direction quickly, hard to say 77 knew his partner was changing but you did see staal crawling to the bench and mcquaid jumped on.

the change issue was more the forwards assuming the puck would go deep.

thats hardly on 77 alone. basically hockey, forward stays high when dman goes deep. its a team game.

there are plenty more examples of staal hanging 77 out to dry. just watch the the tape.

7:08 of the 2nd.... its comical. slow lethargic unable to make a decision leads to him playing no defense and just backing in.

staals feet are like lead boots.