GDT: 4/1/18 - 6:00PM EDT - Nashville vs Tampa Bay

Bolt 45

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Regarding last night's game, I perused Nashville's GDT after the game, and I found it to be useful in terms of keeping things in perspective. They're at the very top of the standings and most of them seem as worried about the way their team's playing as we are. And if I cut-and-pasted the general, non-player-specific complaints into one of our GDTs, I doubt anyone would be the wiser. FWIW.
 
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T REX

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I didn't hear it, so I'll take your word for it, even if I suspect you might have misunderstood something. I will say this. If someone in the organization is airing the team's dirty laundry like that publicly, on a radio show, then Stammer and Coop allegedly not getting along is the least of this organization's problems. That guy should have been fired on the spot and then been blacklisted league-wide. Who does that? So unprofessional.

He's like a beat reporter not a Lightning employee but was very candid. Take it or leave it.
 

CupsOverCash

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Regarding last night's game, I perused Nashville's GDT after the game, and I found it to be useful in terms of keeping things in perspective. They're at the very top of the standings and most of them seem as worried about the way their team's playing as we are. And if I cut-and-pasted the general, non-player-specific complaints into one of our GDTs, I doubt anyone would be the wiser. FWIW.

It’s natural that we are a little bit in panic mode. It comes with being a fan of your team. I bet we go over to Boston’s board and they are talking about what they are worried about. I’m sure they feel confident but I did too early in the season. Things can change quickly in this league. We could still get hot here. Something we haven’t seen too much of is Stamkos and Kucherov line scoring. When those guys get going it opens up things for our other lines.
 

Bolt 45

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He's like a beat reporter not a Lightning employee but was very candid. Take it or leave it.
Fair enough. I'll take it, but with grain of salt. I just can't see either Coop or Stammer confiding in a beat reporter to that degree. It feels kind of clickbaity, so I'm thinking the guy is either misrepresenting things, or reading more into the situation than is actually there. And just to be clear, I'm calling the beat reporter a liar, not you.
 
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T REX

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Fair enough. I'll take it, but with grain of salt. I just can't see either Coop or Stammer confiding in a beat reporter to that degree. It feels kind of clickbaity, so I'm thinking the guy is either misrepresenting things, or reading more into the situation than is actually there. And just to be clear, I'm calling the beat reporter a liar, not you.
Totally understand.
 

Bolt 45

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It’s natural that we are a little bit in panic mode. It comes with being a fan of your team. I bet we go over to Boston’s board and they are talking about what they are worried about. I’m sure they feel confident but I did too early in the season. Things can change quickly in this league. We could still get hot here. Something we haven’t seen too much of is Stamkos and Kucherov line scoring. When those guys get going it opens up things for our other lines.
Lol, I picture Boston fans beating their chests, but only because that's my perception of BOS/NY fans in every sport, even when their teams are garbage. But I know what you're saying. And I agree that the minute Kuch or Stammer get going, Gourde, TJ, Vasy and everyone else will follow suit. This team just needs to find its mojo again.
 

CupsOverCash

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Lol, I picture Boston fans beating their chests, but only because that's my perception of BOS/NY fans in every sport, even when their teams are garbage. But I know what you're saying. And I agree that the minute Kuch or Stammer get going, Gourde, TJ, Vasy and everyone else will follow suit. This team just needs to find its mojo again.

They are due too. Just like how they couldn’t stay hot forever early in the year, they can’t stay cold forever like this. Hopefully they get going sooner than before it’s too late.
 
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Matt Watson

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We know Vasy has the skills, we have seen the world class athleticism and quickness and we know what he can be at his best. The thing that none of us know is what kind of personality he has. At 23 yrs old, is his current situation making him angry and motivating him or is he down on himself and has he lost confidence? That, for me, is the big question. If it's the latter, we're dead already. If it's the former, there is still hope. Well, that, and can we kill penalties at a 10 percent better clip than we have been.
 

Matt Watson

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Okay. All three of those guys do care about awards, but all three of those guys also had front row seats the last time Chicago won the Cup. The Cup is their main goal. This is also kind of the first year where they haven't been chasing anyone else for part of the year. The pressure is real, and everyone else is gunning for them every night. That has to be emotionally and mentally draining. It's been a long season.

But, about the awards, I'll use Kuch as an example. There was a game a week or two ago when he had the puck in an empty net scenario, and he carried the puck past the blueline, casually dumped it and made a change. He had the time and space to at least take a shot at an easy point, but he chose not to. That's a guy who pretty obviously wants to win the Cup more than he wants to win the Art Ross.

At the end of the day, if there's some locker room stuff going on or whatever, then we're probably doomed, and we'll probably never know what it was anyway. There are real question marks about coaching and scheme, but this is the year to let it play out and then evaluate. If this team gets bounced early and looks like they don't care, or that they were out coached or out-schemed, it definitely won't escape Yzerman's attention.
Much of what you have written is true, though I am not sure about the Kucherov story or the situation. If it was clearly going to be a goal, that is always the better option to close out a game than a dump in. In short, not a smart play, awards or not. Anyway, if you have a chance, listen to the Hockey Central at Noon podcast from today and Marc Savard talking about how important stats and awards are to these guys.
 
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Bolt 45

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Oct 19, 2015
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Much of what you have written is true, though I am not sure about the Kucherov story or the situation. If it was clearly going to be a goal, that is always the better option to close out a game than a dump in. In short, not a smart play, awards or not. Anyway, if you have a chance, listen to the Hockey Central at Noon podcast from today and Marc Savard talking about how important stats and awards are to these guys.
Kuch made the right, team-first decision. And this was at a point in time when the race was close. There's no way Kuch didn't want the free goal, and it's Kuch, so he probably could have made it happen, but he still had the presence of mind to make the right play for the team. Taking any kind of risk to get an EN is selfish, and stupid.

Look, Kuch and everybody else want the awards, that's never been in question. The awards just aren't their primary focus this year. I'll have to check out that podcast, but let me ask you this. Do you think it's a coincidence that McDavid really started catching Kuch once he (and his teammates) had literally nothing else to play for?
 

Bolt 45

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Oct 19, 2015
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We know Vasy has the skills, we have seen the world class athleticism and quickness and we know what he can be at his best. The thing that none of us know is what kind of personality he has. At 23 yrs old, is his current situation making him angry and motivating him or is he down on himself and has he lost confidence? That, for me, is the big question. If it's the latter, we're dead already. If it's the former, there is still hope. Well, that, and can we kill penalties at a 10 percent better clip than we have been.
Goaltending is the one thing you can't win a Cup without. It's not even about Vasy, specifically, beyond the fact that he happens to be our goaltender. I doubt Nashville's psyched about Rinne getting chased the other night, and if we dismantle Rask tomorrow (payback's a b*tch), then they'll be worried in Boston too. It is what it is. If Vasy's off his game then it isn't our year, plain and simple. Like you said, he's 23. His personality is fine, he's a competitor, but he's so young for an elite goalie it's not even funny. Honestly, it's not worth fearing, because there's literally nothing we can do about it that will change anything. Just gotta believe that he'll get hot again.
 

Matt Watson

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Kuch made the right, team-first decision. And this was at a point in time when the race was close. There's no way Kuch didn't want the free goal, and it's Kuch, so he probably could have made it happen, but he still had the presence of mind to make the right play for the team. Taking any kind of risk to get an EN is selfish, and stupid.

Look, Kuch and everybody else want the awards, that's never been in question. The awards just aren't their primary focus this year. I'll have to check out that podcast, but let me ask you this. Do you think it's a coincidence that McDavid really started catching Kuch once he (and his teammates) had literally nothing else to play for?
No, and it's a more than fair point.

My only reason for bringing up the topic at all was that there were so many posters making excuses for the players and the team for their mediocre play (games didn't matter, mailing it in, not motivated, all about the playoffs, etc) and my only point is and was that our guys still had a lot to play for, awards included, and hell, if in only because they take pride in what they do and wanted to remain sharp. But I get where your coming from though I still really believe that this teams problems run deeper than just that they can't wait for the playoffs to begin. And, as always, I really I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
 

Matt Watson

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Goaltending is the one thing you can't win a Cup without. It's not even about Vasy, specifically, beyond the fact that he happens to be our goaltender. I doubt Nashville's psyched about Rinne getting chased the other night, and if we dismantle Rask tomorrow (payback's a b*tch), then they'll be worried in Boston too. It is what it is. If Vasy's off his game then it isn't our year, plain and simple. Like you said, he's 23. His personality is fine, he's a competitor, but he's so young for an elite goalie it's not even funny. Honestly, it's not worth fearing, because there's literally nothing we can do about it that will change anything. Just gotta believe that he'll get hot again.
All true, though Rinne's was more of a one-off and not as much of a pattern or string of poor games as Vasy's. Yet. We hope.

It was definitely a gamble on the part of management to go all in on a 23 yr old without a full season as a #1. And I still think they were right to do so. He can, as you say, get hot again and the future is very bright still.
 

Bolt 45

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No, and it's a more than fair point.

My only reason for bringing up the topic at all was that there were so many posters making excuses for the players and the team for their mediocre play (games didn't matter, mailing it in, not motivated, all about the playoffs, etc) and my only point is and was that our guys still had a lot to play for, awards included, and hell, if in only because they take pride in what they do and wanted to remain sharp. But I get where your coming from though I still really believe that this teams problems run deeper than just that they can't wait for the playoffs to begin. And, as always, I really I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how long you've followed this team, and I can only speak to my own experiences, but the reason I'm not hitting the panic button (as opposed to having some concerns), is that the way they've played the past few months is such a "this team" thing for them to do. Personality-wise, this teams does that. They're underachievers. They procrastinate. They're downright lazy at times. But they usually show up when it really matters, and the winning the division stuff kind of mattered, but not enough in a bigger picture kind of way.

I mean, last year, which was an awful year, they still only misjudged the season by about 5 or 6 (or whatever) games. They turned it on and damn near made the playoffs from the bottom of the standings. It's just what they do. The counterargument is that this year maybe shows they didn't learn their lesson from last year, but then again, they locked up a playoff spot before anyone else in the league, so who's to say? This team is nothing if not frustrating, that's for sure. They've always been like that, we just haven't always had such high expectations. Maybe?

And Kuch and Hedman and Vasy are all made of the same stuff. They show up big when they should, but coast when they can get away with it. It is disappointing that they didn't go a little harder for the awards, but that's how it goes. It'll be a shame if Kuch doesn't hit 40/100, but he probably shouldn't have coasted the way he has at times. We can't make thses guys care, you know?

Beyond that, if there are real issues with this team, they'll be laid bare in the playoffs and we'll go from there. These guys do want to win a Cup, and if they throw away a chance as good as this one then they'll have no one to blame but themselves. And Coop'll be under a lot of scrutiny for not having found a way to right the ship.
All true, though Rinne's was more of a one-off and not as much of a pattern or string of poor games as Vasy's. Yet. We hope.

It was definitely a gamble on the part of management to go all in on a 23 yr old without a full season as a #1. And I still think they were right to do so. He can, as you say, get hot again and the future is very bright still.
I do think Coop's been consciously pushing Vasy, and I agree with the decision. It's an additional gamble, but Vasy's our number one now, so he can't be looking to the bench every time he's having a rough night. And the playoffs are going to be way more grueling, mentally and emotionally, than any stretch of games he's played in the regular season. Okay, he's young, he's tired. I get it. He's adjusting, and that's fine. It's to be expected. But the problem is that Boston, Toronto, and Pittsburgh don't care. And they'll care way less in about two weeks. This is his "welcome to the Pros, kid" moment.

Beyond that, playoff goaltenders are almost impossible to predict. A guy like Luongo can own the regular season for years, only to spring severe leaks when the playoffs roll around. And the reverse is true, too. I don't rate Fleury very highly, but he's got Cups. I mean, Niemi won a Cup for Chicago. And then your Roys and Brodeurs are good from the preseason through the SCF. I'm not worried about Vasy long-term, but we'll find out a lot more about his trajectory in two weeks.

Edit: TL;DR - Who the hell knows with this brilliant-but-flawed team. We'll find out soon enough. Lol.
 
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Matt Watson

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Feb 10, 2018
372
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Fairfield, CT
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how long you've followed this team, and I can only speak to my own experiences, but the reason I'm not hitting the panic button (as opposed to having some concerns), is that the way they've played the past few months is such a "this team" thing for them to do. Personality-wise, this teams does that. They're underachievers. They procrastinate. They're downright lazy at times. But they usually show up when it really matters, and the winning the division stuff kind of mattered, but not enough in a bigger picture kind of way.

I mean, last year, which was an awful year, they still only misjudged the season by about 5 or 6 (or whatever) games. They turned it on and damn near made the playoffs from the bottom of the standings. It's just what they do. The counterargument is that this year maybe shows they didn't learn their lesson from last year, but then again, they locked up a playoff spot before anyone else in the league, so who's to say? This team is nothing if not frustrating, that's for sure. They've always been like that, we just haven't always had such high expectations. Maybe?

And Kuch and Hedman and Vasy are all made of the same stuff. They show up big when they should, but coast when they can get away with it. It is disappointing that they didn't go a little harder for the awards, but that's how it goes. It'll be a shame if Kuch doesn't hit 40/100, but he probably shouldn't have coasted the way he has at times. We can't make thses guys care, you know?

Beyond that, if there are real issues with this team, they'll be laid bare in the playoffs and we'll go from there. These guys do want to win a Cup, and if they throw away a chance as good as this one then they'll have no one to blame but themselves. And Coop'll be under a lot of scrutiny for not having found a way to right the ship.
I do think Coop's been consciously pushing Vasy, and I agree with the decision. It's an additional gamble, but Vasy's our number one now, so he can't be looking to the bench every time he's having a rough night. And the playoffs are going to be way more grueling, mentally and emotionally, than any stretch of games he's played in the regular season. Okay, he's young, he's tired. I get it. He's adjusting, and that's fine. It's to be expected. But the problem is that Boston, Toronto, and Pittsburgh don't care. And they'll care way less in about two weeks. This is his "welcome to the Pros, kid" moment.

Beyond that, playoff goaltenders are almost impossible to predict. A guy like Luongo can own the regular season for years, only to spring severe leaks when the playoffs roll around. And the reverse is true, too. I don't rate Fleury very highly, but he's got Cups. I mean, Niemi won a Cup for Chicago. And then your Roys and Brodeurs are good from the preseason through the SCF. I'm not worried about Vasy long-term, but we'll find out a lot more about his trajectory in two weeks.

Edit: TL;DR - Who the hell knows with this brilliant-but-flawed team. We'll find out soon enough. Lol.
Well, that's a whole lot to digest. The one thing we know for sure is that in 9 days we'll start to get a handle on which one among the many respective theories out there is the right one. I hope it isn't mine.
 
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Bolt 45

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Well, that's a whole lot to digest. The one thing we know for sure is that in 9 days we'll start to get a handle on which one among the many respective theories out there on Lightning hockey is the right one. I hope it isn't mine.
Lol, I got a bit carried away. Obviously I hope my theory's right. But the process is part of the fun, too. That tends to get overlooked. We're building towards a Cup. Maybe this is the year, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's not for reasons that we've noted, or maybe a crucial missing component is identified during the playoffs, and we make a move in the offseason, and then go on a Chicago, LA, or Pittsburgh-type run. I mean, ultimately, there so much luck involved that you do just kind of have to throw up your hands at a certain point and just root like hell and believe it's gonna happen.
 

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