Prospect Info: 37th overall: Vancouver selects Jett Woo (D, Moose Jaw)

[The Vasili Jerry]

It was reported by one of Utica's TV stations.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that PP production is a more reliable predictor of even strength production than even strength production is? I'd say that's ... counter-intuitive.

I mean 5on5 production is flukey for Dmen. PP assists is the most sustainable form of proudction. There for if you have a Dman with a load of 5on5 goals expect those numbers to regress to the mean.

 

[geebaan]

Wow, and Woo who I was excited about gets hurt. Not one f***ing bit of good news for this team right now.

 

[Lindgren]

I mean 5on5 production is flukey for Dmen. PP assists is the most sustainable form of proudction. There for if you have a Dman with a load of 5on5 goals expect those numbers to regress to the mean.

I'm not a stats guy, but this seems odd to me. First of all, I was referring to points, not goals, but even if we take goals alone, are you saying that there aren't some defencemen who consistently score more even-strength goals that others, and some less?

If I were looking at a defenceman's stats over the course of a junior career, and he consistently put up points at even strength, I'd be inclined to put more weight on that than I would power-play points. You're saying I'd be wrong to do so, correct?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not a stats guy, but this seems odd to me. First of all, I was referring to points, not goals, but even if we take goals alone, are you saying that there aren't some defencemen who consistently score more even-strength goals that others, and some less?

If I were looking at a defenceman's stats over the course of a junior career, and he consistently put up points at even strength, I'd be inclined to put more weight on that than I would power-play points. You're saying I'd be wrong to do so, correct?

Im not 100% sure. I know it seems counterintuitive, it does to me as well.

I cant find my source for this either.

Maybe it came to me in a dream.

The jist of it was that Dmen are at the mercy of luck, even more so than forwards, when it comes to being in one of the 2 assists for a goal and shooting% for the average Dman is generally far lower than that of the average forward.

On the PP this isnt quite so extreme. All shooting% is obviously higher and if a Dman is concistently getting assists there it means the PP is ran through him. Also a coach has deemed him worthy of the PP time.

But again, this became more an anecdote and less data driven since I cant find where I read this.

@Melvin Maybe you can halp?

 

[F A N]

Im not 100% sure. I know it seems counterintuitive, it does to me as well.

I cant find my source for this either.

Maybe it came to me in a dream.

The jist of it was that Dmen are at the mercy of luck, even more so than forwards, when it comes to being in one of the 2 assists for a goal and shooting% for the average Dman is generally far lower than that of the average forward.

On the PP this isnt quite so extreme. All shooting% is obviously higher and if a Dman is concistently getting assists there it means the PP is ran through him. Also a coach has deemed him worthy of the PP time.

But again, this became more an anecdote and less data driven since I cant find where I read this.

@Melvin Maybe you can halp?

But how much stalk can you put into PP assist production though? Realistically there are 31 teams in the NHL and most teams will have 1-2 Dmen who gets loads of PP time. Take Alex Edler. He's basically the Canucks' go to Dman on the PP the past 2 years and last season he was top 30 and this year he's top 20 in PP points among Dmen. But ya Edler's offensive production is top 50 among Dmen.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

But how much stalk can you put into PP assist production though? Realistically there are 31 teams in the NHL and most teams will have 1-2 Dmen who gets loads of PP time. Take Alex Edler. He's basically the Canucks' go to Dman on the PP the past 2 years and last season he was top 30 and this year he's top 20 in PP points among Dmen. But ya Edler's offensive production is top 50 among Dmen.

Maybe it works for NHL players as well... Not 100% sure.

But Im talking prospects here. If you have a D man scoring a ton of even strength points (especially goals or 2nd assists) that is a bit of a red flag that his production is likely the product of luck & line mates rather than his own individual play driving the offense.

 

[DL44]

Maybe it works for NHL players as well... Not 100% sure.

But Im talking prospects here. If you have a D man scoring a ton of even strength points (especially goals or 2nd assists) that is a bit of a red flag that his production is likely the product of luck & line mates rather than his own individual play driving the offense.

That doesn't sound right...

 

[F A N]

Maybe it works for NHL players as well... Not 100% sure.

But Im talking prospects here. If you have a D man scoring a ton of even strength points (especially goals or 2nd assists) that is a bit of a red flag that his production is likely the product of luck & line mates rather than his own individual play driving the offense.

That doesn't sound right...

I'm with Literally. That doesn't sound right at all.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm with Literally. That doesn't sound right at all.

Like I said, it is not intuitive.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Like I said, it is not intuitive.

If you aren't basing it on intuition, may I ask what you are basing it on?

 

[M2Beezy]

Anyways guys... Woooooooo!!!!!

 

[VanJack]

Apparently Woo was playing through an injury down the stretch in the WHL....makes his overall season even more impressive. But he's had a lot of injuries playing junior hockey, and given how so many d-men are regularly felled in Utica, you have to wonder how he'll fare facing guys a a lot bigger than he is.....might have to tone down his physical play a bit.

 

[tradervik]

But how much stalk can you put into PP assist production though?

Are we talking celery or corn?

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Apparently Woo was playing through an injury down the stretch in the WHL....makes his overall season even more impressive. But he's had a lot of injuries playing junior hockey, and given how so many d-men are regularly felled in Utica, you have to wonder how he'll fare facing guys a a lot bigger than he is.....might have to tone down his physical play a bit.

Well, you can't just cannonball around in the NHL... he will have to learn how to pick his spots. Mid size guys can play physical if they are strong and make good use of timing and leverage.

 

[Krnuckfan]

If you aren't basing it on intuition, may I ask what you are basing it on?

I think that poster is misremembering.

There's an article by travis yost of TSN that looked at defencemen scoring here:
https://www.tsn.ca/talent/how-much-should-we-care-about-defencemen-scoring-rates-1.1140441

And another article by harman dayal of canucks army:
Beware of what a defenceman’s points are(and aren’t) telling you

In summation, here are the tools and factors I take into account when analyzing a defencemen’s offensive profile.

• Primary Points
• Expected Primary Points Per Hour
• Primary Shot Contributions
• Defensive zone exits
• Offensive zone entries
• SCB %(on-ice shot contribution percentage)
• Individual Point %(Percentage of on-ice goals a player gets points on)
• Deployment(Teammate and competition quality, zone starts, special teams opportunities)

 

[M2Beezy]

Are we talking celery or corn?

I think he means following around someone obssesively

 

[ps241]

I dont think its impressive in the sense hes not exceeding expectations that a d+1 prospect should have. Hes trending as he should.

However, I think its very impressive relative to the expectations going into this season. Woo is keeping up with offensive defenseman in terms of raw production. You look at the first few pages of this thread, people were absolutely trashing the pick. He exceeded my expectations I thought he was going to get 0.5-0.75ppg. Unlike some of the other defenseman (ex. Addison) producing similarly to him, woo doesn't have big problems on the defensive end. I think it's a big win overall so far.

I was one of the guys from Winnipeg who dropped by to congratulate you guys for picking up a great asset in the 2nd round. I know the family and he is the kind of kid you want in your .org. Many of the guys on our board wanted Woo with our late 1st that we traded away to get Stastny. Daximus posts on our board and he is a season ticket holder for the Warriors and was the guy leading the fan charge to draft Woo. High character kid, plays a complete game, captain type who coaches love.

He is going to be a solid NHL asset who will compliment a guy like Hughes well.

Edit: one of the reasons he slipped in his draft year was injuries and I noticed it sounds like he might have an issue now too. That part kind of sucks.

 

[Zombotron]

 

[M2Beezy]

That sucks

 

[Zombotron]

I hope he pushes for a nine-game stint at training camp. The guy put up 60P+ with a nagging injury, so I'm wondering how much better he could have been if he was healthy

 

[Bad Goalie]

Both they and he knew what was bothering him after his playoffs ended. He was hurt. He couldn't even get through a non-contact practice the first day in Utica and was released after watching the first game they played when he was here.

He should have never been sent here in the first pace. He should have been resting up, recovering from his injury, and then get to work on preparation for next season.

 

[timw33]

Both they and he knew what was bothering him after his playoffs ended. He was hurt. He couldn't even get through a non-contact practice the first day in Utica and was released after watching the first game they played when he was here.

He should have never been sent here in the first pace. He should have been resting up, recovering from his injury, and then get to work on preparation for next season.

This kinda crap happens way too frequently with this org.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

This kinda crap happens way too frequently with this org.

I regret that I have but only one like to give for this post.

 

[Phenomenon13]

Both they and he knew what was bothering him after his playoffs ended. He was hurt. He couldn't even get through a non-contact practice the first day in Utica and was released after watching the first game they played when he was here.

He should have never been sent here in the first pace. He should have been resting up, recovering from his injury, and then get to work on preparation for next season.

It's a stereotype that hockey players are tough and gotta play through injuries. Battling through injuries puts players on a pedestal.

I'm glad the Canucks made the correct decision here. Allowing him to recover can allow him to get some good offseason training done.