Prospect Info: 37th overall: Vancouver selects Jett Woo (D, Moose Jaw)

Status
Not open for further replies.

nuxnuxnux

Registered User
May 15, 2011
630
449
I dunno man. I would venture to guess that there isn't many impact D-men in the NHL right now that played on the second pairing of their junior team in their draft +1 year.
It makes his production more impressive
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
7,108
5,416
Ok sure.

Note that this is exclusively CHL examples, no SEL/NCAA prospects.

I've included several examples of players across a broad spectrum of draft positions, with one (Foote) example of like one of the most well know defensive d-men in recent history, but in general they are all guys who are not expected to light the world on fire offensively in the NHL/run powerplay units and are more known for their overall game/defensive game (whether successful or not)

One thing is clear: as a CHL defensemen hoping to even be a generally lower scoring D-man (15-25ish) in the NHL, you absolutely need to produce at an good clip in CHL (like 0.7PPG).

Yes, there are going to be exceptions, like Marc Methot who has maintained similar production in CHL/NHL, but those are few and far between. However, if you want to rail off a list of examples of low scoring CHL dmen making a dent in the NHL, why don't you enlighten us?

M-A Vlasic

D+1 73 points in 66GP

Travis Hamonic
D+1 40 points in 57GP
D+2 39 points in 31GP

Dan Hamhuis
D+1 60 points in 59GP

Adam Foote
D+1 55 points in 61GP
D+2 69 points in 59GP

Marc Staal
D+1 49 points in 57GP
D+2 34 points in 53GP

Nikita Zadorov
D+1 30 points in 36GP

Marco Scandella
D+1: 37 points in 58GP

Andrew MacDonald
D+1: 58 points in 65GP

Ryan Murray
D+1: 17 points in 23GP

Erik Gudbranson
D+1 34 points in 44GP

Luca Sbisa
D+1: 15 points in 19GP

Kris Russell
D+1 47 points in 55GP
D+2 69 points in 59GP

This is completely false. We've already had this conversation. A significant proportion of the league's regular defencemen didn't produce well in their D+1 season. The Bruins were one of the best teams in the league last year, and literally almost their entire defence, which includes an unusual number of defensive D-men, didn't produce offensively in their D+1 seasons, all but one in the CHL -- Torey Krug, Zdeno Chara, Adam McQuiad, Brandon Carlo and Kevan Miller. Quickly glancing at a couple of other rosters in the division, Montreal -- Noah Juulsen put up 28 points in 63 games in his D+1 and Karl Alzner put up 36 points in 60 games. Lightning -- Ryan McDonagh never approached 0.5 ppg in the NCAA in the 3 seasons following his draft then put up 1 goal and 8 points in the AHL the following season. Braydon Coburn put up 30 points in 55 games in his D+1 in the CHL. Red Wings -- Danny DeKeyser, in what would have been his D+1 season had he been drafted, put up 25 points in 58 games in the BCHL, a league considered far inferior to the CHL. Nick Jensen put up 27 points in 53 games in the USHL. Senators -- Max Lajoie, currently one of the best rookie dmen in hockey, put up 42 points in 68 games. Dylan DeMelo put up 47 points in 67 games. These aren't rare exceptions. They are a significant proportion of NHL defensemen. You're simply wrong. There's nothing more I can say.

EDIT: It's worth noting as well that the Bruins were the 3rd best defensive team in the league last year. For more context the D+1 production of the players I mentioned on that team was as follows. Krug -- 21 points in 38 games in the NCAA. Chara -- 22 points in 49 games in the CHL. McQuaid -- 17 points in 68 games in the CHL. Carlo -- 27 points in 52 games in the CHL. Miller -- 9 points in 35 games in an American prep league beneath the USHL.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Canucks LB

timw33

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 18, 2007
25,709
19,426
Victoria
This is completely false. We've already had this conversation. A significant proportion of the league's regular defencemen didn't produce well in their D+1 season. The Bruins were one of the best teams in the league last year, and literally almost their entire defence, which includes an unusual number of defensive D-men, didn't produce offensively in their D+1 seasons, all but one in the CHL -- Torey Krug, Zdeno Chara, Adam McQuiad, Brandon Carlo and Kevan Miller. Quickly glancing at a couple of other rosters in the division, Montreal -- Noah Juulsen put up 28 points in 63 games in his D+1 and Karl Alzner put up 36 points in 60 games. Lightning -- Ryan McDonagh never approached 0.5 ppg in the NCAA in the 3 seasons following his draft then put up 1 goal and 8 points in the AHL the following season. Braydon Coburn put up 30 points in 55 games in his D+1 in the CHL. Red Wings -- Danny DeKeyser, in what would have been his D+1 season had he been drafted, put up 25 points in 58 games in the BCHL, a league considered far inferior to the CHL. Nick Jensen put up 27 points in 53 games in the USHL. Senators -- Max Lajoie, currently one of the best rookie dmen in hockey, put up 42 points in 68 games. Dylan DeMelo put up 47 points in 67 games. These aren't rare exceptions. They are a significant proportion of NHL defensemen. You're simply wrong. There's nothing more I can say.


Look at the first thing I said: "Note that this is exclusively CHL examples, no SEL/NCAA prospects"

So let's go ahead and throw out Kevan Miller, Torey Krug, Ryan McDonough, Danny Dekeyser, Nick Jensen right off the bat. This was CHL only as the prospect in question is a CHL drafted and developed defensemen.

Then you cite examples that actual verify my point in Demelo (0.702PPG) and even a handful of guys in the 0.6PPG range of Alzner, Coburn (0.733PPG D+2), Juulsen (0.694PPG D+2), Lajoie.

Happy to spot you Chara, that guy is a freak of nature. And drafted 22 years ago. There will be exceptions but in general you still should be producing as table stakes for a typical development curve, even if you aren't projected to be a big points guy at NHL level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: geebaan

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
7,108
5,416
Look at the first thing I said: "Note that this is exclusively CHL examples, no SEL/NCAA prospects"

So let's go ahead and throw out Kevan Miller, Torey Krug, Ryan McDonough, Danny Dekeyser, Nick Jensen right off the bat. This was CHL only as the prospect in question is a CHL drafted and developed defensemen.

Then you cite examples that actual verify my point in Demelo (0.702PPG) and even a handful of guys in the 0.6PPG range of Alzner, Coburn (0.733PPG D+2), Juulsen (0.694PPG D+2), Lajoie.

Happy to spot you Chara, that guy is a freak of nature. And drafted 22 years ago. There will be exceptions but in general you still should be producing as table stakes for a typical development curve, even if you aren't projected to be a big points guy at NHL level.
You change the goalpost to incorporate D+2 stats when your original D+1 standard doesn't give you the results you want. You exclude guys who were barely playing organized hockey in their D+1 season because it doesn't give you the results you want. You mention Chara was drafted 22 years ago, but include Adam Foote, who was drafted far earlier and hasn't played in the NHL years, because it appears to support the results you want. You included the fairly arbitrary CHL stipulation because the last time we discussed this I used Tanev as an example, who spent his D+1 season scoring less than 0.5 ppg in the Ontario provincial junior league, which you then dismissed by emphasizing that he'd had a decent offensive season years later playing in a NCAA conference that never produced a single other NHL player and no one that did better than a cup of coffee in the ECHL, in order to support the result you wanted. You're cherry-picking. You're wrong. Every rational person reading this knows it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nomobo

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
7,108
5,416
Look at the first thing I said: "Note that this is exclusively CHL examples, no SEL/NCAA prospects"

So let's go ahead and throw out Kevan Miller, Torey Krug, Ryan McDonough, Danny Dekeyser, Nick Jensen right off the bat. This was CHL only as the prospect in question is a CHL drafted and developed defensemen.

Then you cite examples that actual verify my point in Demelo (0.702PPG) and even a handful of guys in the 0.6PPG range of Alzner, Coburn (0.733PPG D+2), Juulsen (0.694PPG D+2), Lajoie.

Happy to spot you Chara, that guy is a freak of nature. And drafted 22 years ago. There will be exceptions but in general you still should be producing as table stakes for a typical development curve, even if you aren't projected to be a big points guy at NHL level.
Just looked at another roster, the Kings, at random. Jake Muzzin, one of their top-pairing D, put up 18 points in 62 games in his D+1. Before you go looking up his D+2 to attempt to undermine this, I'll point out that he put up 29 points in 62 games in that season. Another of the best two-way dmen in the league. Then I looked up another roster at random, the Hurricanes, and it turned out that few of their dmen came through the CHL. Their best dman, Jacob Slavin, put up 33 points in 62 games in the USHL in his D+1, which is universally considered less competitive than the CHL, and one other, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, wasn't playing any form of organized hockey tracked by hockeydb.
 

Bleach Clean

Registered User
Aug 9, 2006
26,997
6,572
Just looked at another roster, the Kings, at random. Jake Muzzin, one of their top-pairing D, put up 18 points in 62 games in his D+1. Before you go looking up his D+2 to attempt to undermine this, I'll point out that he put up 29 points in 62 games in that season. Another of the best two-way dmen in the league. Then I looked up another roster at random, the Hurricanes, and it turned out that few of their dmen came through the CHL. Their best dman, Jacob Slavin, put up 33 points in 62 games in the USHL in his D+1, which is universally considered less competitive than the CHL, and one other, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, wasn't playing any form of organized hockey tracked by hockeydb.

The USHL is not considered "less competitive" than the CHL. Of the US leagues, only the ECAC gets ranked behind the CHL in NHLe.

And it seems that you don't understand that exceptions do not prove (or disprove) the rule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: geebaan

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,288
14,030
Hiding under WTG's bed...
If Woo can be Travis Hamonic then thats a fantastic pick.

If he becomes an Adam Foote..thats a home run !


His game can be compared to both.
Considering how many 2nd round picks bust, if he becomes an NHL regular, regardless of where (eg., 1st, 2nd or 3rd pairing) it should be considered at least a double if not triple.
 

Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
5,948
3,850
With two assists tonight, Woo's line looks like this: 23 gp, 5/17/22. That's .96 points per game, good for 8th for defencemen in the WHL.

Woo is younger than all of those ahead of him in points per game (a couple by a few months, the rest by roughly a year or more). Three are undrafted, two were taken in the second round, and two were taken in the first.
 
Last edited:

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
Just looked at another roster, the Kings, at random. Jake Muzzin, one of their top-pairing D, put up 18 points in 62 games in his D+1. Before you go looking up his D+2 to attempt to undermine this, I'll point out that he put up 29 points in 62 games in that season. Another of the best two-way dmen in the league. Then I looked up another roster at random, the Hurricanes, and it turned out that few of their dmen came through the CHL. Their best dman, Jacob Slavin, put up 33 points in 62 games in the USHL in his D+1, which is universally considered less competitive than the CHL, and one other, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, wasn't playing any form of organized hockey tracked by hockeydb.

Let’s cherry pick the 1% unicorns in an effort to prove something statistically improbable is likely to happen!
 
  • Like
Reactions: timw33 and geebaan

bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
1,898
953
Jett Woo is a ****ing player.

Not trying to be a shit, but ...Please don't... it is poking the bear for no reason. And it is so clear that he is a long shot by any measure. Let's be hopeful without getting carried away maybe? Just saying...
 

GetFocht

Indestructible
Jun 11, 2013
9,077
4,373
Not trying to be a ****, but ...Please don't... it is poking the bear for no reason. And it is so clear that he is a long shot by any measure. Let's be hopeful without getting carried away maybe? Just saying...

poke what bear? This is is an anonymous internet message board of fans, he scored 20 points in his last 15 games, thats production that will signal fans to be excited. Do me a favour and stop acting like HFBoards has some sort of barrier to entry.
 

bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
1,898
953
poke what bear? This is is an anonymous internet message board of fans, he scored 20 points in his last 15 games, thats production that will signal fans to be excited. Do me a favour and stop acting like HFBoards has some sort of barrier to entry.

I am happy to do you that favour... didn't think that is what I was saying. Apologies if it came across that way.

Not sure what you mean by barrier to entry though, or how I have acted that way(?), but I guess you have your reasons.

He has been on a great run, no doubt. I sure hope he turns out to be a player. But I guess we might have learned a lesson by using and believing hyperbole about all of our past prospects. I guess I am saying maybe we could not go crazy on this kid and then dump on him when he makes the almost inevitable tough transition to pro hockey in a couple of years... Instead, we could be hopeful and get excited that he might become a player while watching the process unfold.

And as for the poking the bear comment... I watch the train wreck on here as a group at one extreme pokes the group on the other extreme, etc.. Anyhow, it is all in good fun. Carry on- please don't allow me any influence over you or anyone else participating or enjoying themselves- not my intent by any stretch of imagination.

Cheers
 

The Iron Goalie

Formally 'OEL for Norris'
Feb 8, 2012
3,524
3,081
Langley, BC
With two primary assists tonight, Woo's line looks like this: 23 gp, 5/17/22. That's .96 points per game, good for 8th for defencemen in the WHL.

Woo is younger than all of those ahead of him in points per game (a couple by a few months, the rest by roughly a year or more). Three are undrafted, two were taken in the second round, and two were taken in the first.

fixed ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canadian Canuck

Catamarca Livin

Registered User
Jul 29, 2010
4,908
983
The USHL is not considered "less competitive" than the CHL. Of the US leagues, only the ECAC gets ranked behind the CHL in NHLe.

And it seems that you don't understand that exceptions do not prove (or disprove) the rule.
The USHL is improving but still think it ranks below the CHL leagues. Might be lower scoring though.

Seems like Woo is unaware of his offensive limitations.
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
15,707
14,510
With two assists tonight, Woo's line looks like this: 23 gp, 5/17/22. That's .96 points per game, good for 8th for defencemen in the WHL.

Woo is younger than all of those ahead of him in points per game (a couple by a few months, the rest by roughly a year or more). Three are undrafted, two were taken in the second round, and two were taken in the first.
100.webp
 
  • Like
Reactions: Megaterio Llamas

Bleach Clean

Registered User
Aug 9, 2006
26,997
6,572
The USHL is improving but still think it ranks below the CHL leagues. Might be lower scoring though.

Seems like Woo is unaware of his offensive limitations.


What do you have to suggest that the USHL is still below the CHL in terms of NHL equivalency?

The USHL filters players to intermediary leagues like the ECAC, Big-10, NCHC etc... instead of graduating players directly to the NHL. That’s why it doesn’t have an NHLe. Still, you can see that all intermediary leagues have a better NHLe than their CHL counterparts, save the the ECAC. This suggests that production is of greater value in these leagues. Why would that diminish the USHL via association? If anything, it suggests the opposite.
 

Icebreakers

Registered User
Apr 29, 2011
9,260
4,163
Jett Woo actually was ~PPG for the first 20 or so games of his draft year and fell off heavily in the second half. He was projected as a top 20 pick after the first two months or so. Hopefully he can keep up his current production.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F A N

strattonius

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
4,128
4,280
Surrey, BC
Jett Woo actually was ~PPG for the first 20 or so games of his draft year and fell off heavily in the second half. He was projected as a top 20 pick after the first two months or so. Hopefully he can keep up his current production.

He suffered an injury that set him back. He didnt get to play a full year and it impacted his position.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,629
5,893
What do you have to suggest that the USHL is still below the CHL in terms of NHL equivalency?

The USHL filters players to intermediary leagues like the ECAC, Big-10, NCHC etc... instead of graduating players directly to the NHL. That’s why it doesn’t have an NHLe. Still, you can see that all intermediary leagues have a better NHLe than their CHL counterparts, save the the ECAC. This suggests that production is of greater value in these leagues. Why would that diminish the USHL via association? If anything, it suggests the opposite.

I think the CHL is more equivalent to NCAA than USHL. The biggest reason is level of competition. Top USHL players typically go to college either in their draft eligible year or the next. You’re not going to find too many 19 or 20 year olds in the USHL who is ready to step into the NHL in 1-2 years.

With that said, Weisbrod and Brackett are big fans of the USHL and the Canucks have done pretty well drafting out of that league under current management.
 

mossey3535

Registered User
Feb 7, 2011
13,218
9,645
He suffered an injury that set him back. He didnt get to play a full year and it impacted his position.

Someone also explained earlier in the thread that they made a trade a brought in an older guy who took his PP1 minutes.

Anyhoo, glad to hear he is having a good season so far!
 
  • Like
Reactions: The ultimate fan

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
I think the CHL is more equivalent to NCAA than USHL. The biggest reason is level of competition. Top USHL players typically go to college either in their draft eligible year or the next. You’re not going to find too many 19 or 20 year olds in the USHL who is ready to step into the NHL in 1-2 years.

With that said, Weisbrod and Brackett are big fans of the USHL and the Canucks have done pretty well drafting out of that league under current management.

NCAA >>>>> CHL. And it isn’t really close.

There might be better prospects in the CHL, but it is composed of 16-19 year olds (with a couple 20 y/os) while the NCAA is 18-24 year olds. The age difference is absolutely massive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timw33
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->