Post-Game Talk: #36: FLYERS at Lightning, Thursday, Dec. 27, 2018, 7:30 pm ET

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,941
18,809
Key Biscayne
The more I read of Charlie, the less enamored I become. He's smart, but whereas previously i thought our ideals and values were simpatico, I question that now. He's a journalist, I'm a fan, that's the grain of salt. But even when being objective, some of the things he's written/stood by just leave me questioning why I take him serious.

Still though, he's leaps and bounds better than the folks employed by the other local outfits.

His job isn't to be your best friend and to share a brain with you, it's to write what he's inclined to write in a clear, justifiable, honest way.
 
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Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
His job isn't to be your best friend and to share a brain with you, it's to write what he's inclined to write in a clear, justifiable, honest way.
I get it, but that's like saying every journalist isn't culpable for what they produce. Journalist are responsible for their content and journalist are not above reproach. Charlie does more than just regurgitate the box score and like fancy stats. There is opinion and conjecture in his articles. It is these aspects, debatable aspects, that I am critiquing.

And in a model such as the Athletic, where there's an expected higher bar of journalism for a subscription membership, yeah, fan service is expected somewhat. If Charlie were the only draw to the Athletic, and that stopped being a draw, I would conceivably end my subscription. To which the Athletic would lose, because they are funded solely by subscription. Charlie doesn't need to be my friend, but he does need to write to an audience that wants to buy what he's writing/Athletic is selling.

C'mon man, be better that.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,941
18,809
Key Biscayne
I get it, but that's like saying every journalist isn't culpable for what they produce. Journalist are responsible for their content and journalist are not above reproach. Charlie does more than just regurgitate the box score and like fancy stats. There is opinion and conjecture in his articles. It is these aspects, debatable aspects, that I am critiquing.

And in a model such as the Athletic, where there's an expected higher bar of journalism for a subscription membership, yeah, fan service is expected somewhat. If Charlie were the only draw to the Athletic, and that stopped being a draw, I would conceivably end my subscription. To which the Athletic would lose, because they are funded solely by subscription. Charlie doesn't need to be my friend, but he does need to write to an audience that wants to buy what he's writing/Athletic is selling.

C'mon man, be better that.

I'd need to see specific examples, given that I am not a subscriber and thus have read very little from him, but it's important to note that journalists are human beings using words to describe situations. There is no such thing as unbiased, pure journalism. Every adjective has connotations, every person is subconsciously representing situations and choosing what to focus on based on their own preferences and feelings. You can consciously mitigate that, but it can never be stripped away.

A looser standard applies to sports journalism, because 1. Sports don't matter and 2. A substantial element of all sports journalism is opinion and analysis. Were there none, they'd all be rewriting box scores and parroting soundbites. The goal is to make interesting, informative content and to do so factually. That means they'll be looking for narratives or factoids they find interesting. It's as much a curation job as a reportage job, and not everyone will love the things you think are interesting enough to point out. That's OK!

There's a ton of criticism around these boards about sports journalism, particularly local, and a lot of it is valid. But a lot of it seems to also stem from people having unrealistic expectations or wishing that the content was tailored exactly to them and only to them.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
Weirdly enough he had a bonus 11th thing in his article today which just said - Ruck Over from HFB can kiss my ass! ;)
Yeah, since we use our real names on the Athletic, I doubt he had my handle from HFB. But the emojii face, you, Charlie, and whomever else can just right go do you without being jerks to others.

Or, in hfb parlance-

Great post.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
I'd need to see specific examples, given that I am not a subscriber and thus have read very little from him, but it's important to note that journalists are human beings using words to describe situations. There is no such thing as unbiased, pure journalism. Every adjective has connotations, every person is subconsciously representing situations and choosing what to focus on based on their own preferences and feelings. You can consciously mitigate that, but it can never be stripped away.

A looser standard applies to sports journalism, because 1. Sports don't matter and 2. A substantial element of all sports journalism is opinion and analysis. Were there none, they'd all be rewriting box scores and parroting soundbites. The goal is to make interesting, informative content and to do so factually. That means they'll be looking for narratives or factoids they find interesting. It's as much a curation job as a reportage job, and not everyone will love the things you think are interesting enough to point out. That's OK!
So, not only are you not in my head, but you're not even a subscriber to the Athletic, and only see what he writes as it's referenced second hand, or posted here by others. You're an admitted non-informed commentator.

Great post.
 
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Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,941
18,809
Key Biscayne
So, not only are you not in my head, but you're not even a subscriber to the Athletic, and only see what he writes as it's referenced second hand, or posted here by others. You're an admitted non-informed commentator.

Great post.

I'm just talking about the nature of the game moreso than any writer in particular. I was responding to your initial post, not to O'Connor's content.

Media literacy. Learning how to read and interpret what people are actually saying rather than responding to what they assume is being said. People aren't so good at that. Your post was practically pudding-proof of the problem I was portraying.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
I'm just talking about the nature of the game moreso than any writer in particular. I was responding to your initial post, not to O'Connor's content.

Media literacy. Learning how to read and interpret what people are actually saying rather than responding to what they assume is being said. People aren't so good at that. Your post was practically pudding-proof of the problem I was portraying.
My initial post was exclusively about Charlie's writing.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,647
138,659
Philadelphia, PA
My only problem with media is when they say caveman shit & defend the indefensible. I understand they meet these guys face to face everyday & don’t want to dog a guy publicly constantly for various reasons. But my problem is when they don’t just know how to sit one out & have to come white knighting for some turd.
 
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gto64dr

Registered User
Jan 15, 2012
1,575
539
I don't think the D was horrible last night with the exception of Amac. I don't think Gudas gets the appreciation he deserves. Amac's main problem is hes not physical and gets muscled off the boards. Aside from that he lacks making decisions quick enough. He is our cancer on defense.
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
8,136
11,633
Las Vegas
I think Charlie's terrific, and I'm generally not a fan of sports writers. I was a sports journalist, briefly, and I've spent the rest of my career in (non-sports) journalism, and I think he's one of the few worth paying money to read.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,325
103,987
From Charlie O'Connor's recap on The Athletic:

Of course things are never this black and white and the sample size is small, but I would hope it makes people look a little more fondly on Gudas.

The more I read of Charlie, the less enamored I become. He's smart, but whereas previously i thought our ideals and values were simpatico, I question that now. He's a journalist, I'm a fan, that's the grain of salt. But even when being objective, some of the things he's written/stood by just leave me questioning why I take him serious.

Still though, he's leaps and bounds better than the folks employed by the other local outfits.

He's got some interesting approaches to things. He and I have (civilly) gone back and forth in the comments a few times and what's stuck out to me is how far away from speculation he's willing to go. He was willing to go to the wall on the Hextall/Hakstol developmental model not hurting anyone because Provorov and Gostisbehere developed, completely refusing to agree that they could have been developed better is a possibility. Pretty sure I had this discussion with @FLYguy3911 too. It's definitely not just you.

To be clear, I disagree with him in many more ways than I expected, but that's all it is. He's obviously a very intelligent guy and I don't mean to even hint to the contrary. I read almost everything he writes.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
Of course things are never this black and white and the sample size is small, but I would hope it makes people look a little more fondly on Gudas.



He's got some interesting approaches to things. He and I have (civilly) gone back and forth in the comments a few times and what's stuck out to me is how far away from speculation he's willing to go. He was willing to go to the wall on the Hextall/Hakstol developmental model not hurting anyone because Provorov and Gostisbehere developed, completely refusing to agree that they could have been developed better is a possibility. Pretty sure I had this discussion with @FLYguy3911 too. It's definitely not just you.

To be clear, I disagree with him in many more ways than I expected, but that's all it is. He's obviously a very intelligent guy and I don't mean to even hint to the contrary. I read almost everything he writes.
Your taek, I will agree with it.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
I think Charlie's terrific, and I'm generally not a fan of sports writers. I was a sports journalist, briefly, and I've spent the rest of my career in (non-sports) journalism, and I think he's one of the few worth paying money to read.
I tend to agree, because I do. Bought a subscription, and have had it renewed. He's not the only one I read, but he's one of two initial draws that led me to purchase that first subscription. Philly.com went to a pay to read model, and I stopped visiting Philly.com. C'est la vie.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,161
Pennsylvania
That dude isn’t even a beat writer. He essentially fills a Skip Bayless role for The Inquirer.
I'll also use this as an excuse to post one of my favorite reaction images! :laugh:

DOeP_5FUEAAscnC.jpg
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
65,865
24,272
Concord, New Hampshire
My favorite part of the Giroux goal wasn't the between the legs with the puck, it was the little lift on the dman stick as he was getting ready to pick up the puck again. That was brilliant.

That whole sequence showed incredible high hockey IQ. The way he shielded the puck, the stick lift and the filthy dangle all in the blink of an eye. That was one of the best individual efforts on a goal I have seen in a long time.
 

1865

Alpha Couturier
Feb 28, 2005
16,839
5,603
Chester, UK
Hart better be back in net next game. Neuy SUCKS!

Interesting. I was coming on to say that for a game with 11 goals both goalies played pretty well. Which ones do you think he could have had? The back post slapshots from Stamkos or Kucherov? The one that hit just the right spot on Johnson to loop over him? The screened wrister off the post in OT? He had a pretty good game, but let up 6 goals. Weird.
 
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