Post-Game Talk: #35 | FLYERS (A) vs. Sabres (H) | Wednesday, Mar. 31, 2021 | Loss 6-1

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
Yes you do.

:cry::cry::cry:

Yes I do.

iu
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
8,136
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Las Vegas
Having Patrick and Frost battle it out for 3C sounds like the perfect way to turn both of them and Lacz into nothing.

I'd commit to Frost, who has real pro offensive upside, play him 82 games with PP time and let him play through all. his struggles.

honest question: i know nothing of what Patrick was like in juniors, was he known as a hard worker?
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
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more questions:

what skill does Patrick possess that's above league average for a 3C?

what area of the game has he improved on since his draft year?
 
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landsbergfan

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
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This was the first game in years for which I just couldn’t bother. I didn’t tape it; I didn’t start watching and zone out or shut it off; I consciously chose to not watch a single second. And I am a masochist with my Flyers, even through all the lean years. I’m glad I was vindicated. I can watch a team lose games and be entertained and hopeful. The current — and assuredly future — organizational malaise simply broke me with the goings-on this week.
I've rooted for losses during the Hextall/Hakstol era so we could get better draft picks, this month has been the first time I actually hoped they lose so we can finally get rid of some people. What sucks is that I know they're going to get rid of people they shouldn't before they get rid of the ones they should, so it is a very helpless and shitty time to be a fan of the team.

It feels similar to the Babcock situation (sans abuse) and how everyone jumped on the players for being overpaid and the Leafs were never going to win because the top guys made too much. He had the distinction of being such an amazing coach until it quickly became clear he wasn't. Hoping the same is happening now with AV. That took 3.5 years though :(
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
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May 8, 2011
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At age 19-20, he was a 30-35 point break even possession center. He missed his age 21 season. Age 22 season, he has some of the worst luck in the league on a systematically putrid, flop of a team, as he returns after a long layoff. He hasn't any major injury where there's physical degradation.

We need to back off the ledge, I think. I'll gladly take the chance on him returning to his prior form, if not finding an additional gear, at the opportunity cost of a 2nd-3rd round pick. And I like my picks, and I'm not against aggressive evaluating. He's cheap, and he's controllable too. It's a shame we don't have the perspective of a season with Frost (Laczynski too?), but even then, it doesn't make Patrick a justifiable loss. He's not Curtis Lazar.

I find this narrative of giving up on Patrick after what amounts to two full seasons in 4 years a little odd, myself. If he had played all 4 years and he was still in this boat, I guess id be a little more open to the idea of moving on from him. But given he missed an entire year due to a health diagnosis, and is coming back in a year where the majority of the team is playing like absolute garbage for large portions of the saeason, i think he should get some slack.

We all kinda new we werent getting a "star" 2nd overall pick, which i think is the other reason people are so ready to move on - curse of the draft position. But honestly, a 5th round pick does nothing for me. I would rather let Patrick play out what he can here, and if he busts out, he busts out. I'm not hoping and praying Fletcher finds something in the later stages of a draft just because our recent #2 isnt quite meeting expectations yet. We dont pick that early in the draft often enough like the Oilers to have the luxury of throwing away high picks.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Having Patrick and Frost battle it out for 3C sounds like the perfect way to turn both of them and Lacz into nothing.

I'd commit to Frost, who has real pro offensive upside, play him 82 games with PP time and let him play through all. his struggles.

honest question: i know nothing of what Patrick was like in juniors, was he known as a hard worker?

Patrick was a better player at 17 than Frost at 18, then he had the groin injuries, surgeries the summer before the draft, surgery the summer of the draft - these were core injuries that take longer to rehab. So at 21, when he's physically mature and has 2 seasons under his belt, basically his brain went tilt.

I'd say it's a tad bit premature to write him off. He's cheap as pointed out above, can play center and RW, PK and PP. He's had some bad puck luck this year and his timing and stick work is off.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,321
103,971
You will never get a high enough pick for Patrick that you should even consider it. Fiddling with the rounds is pointless.

The only possible way it makes sense is him being Piece C or D in a win-now consolidation deal. Even then it's tricky because he makes nothing. Those cheap depth pieces with upside become important when you're capped out. Unless there's another team out there that wants to value him like a 2OA (and there isn't), you ride it out because it's the only reasonable option. You just have to pull back on your expecations.
 

GapToothedWonder

Registered User
Dec 20, 2013
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Question. When was Oskar diagnosed last year and when did the team start winning? Not to belittle what happened to Oskar but is it possible that his situation galvanized the team and covered up underlying issues in the locker room? Or could they have been propelled to play to a higher level then they are capable of consistently playing at based on the emotional push of playing for him?

This is wild speculation stuff but at this point I'm just throwing shit at the wall with this team.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
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Armored Train
I apologize for what will probably be an obnoxious-sounding post, but something I realized about sp0rts at an early age is that the ability of coaches/managers is not fixed. probably the best way to explain this is that, surely you can relate to a job that you care about and how effective you are at your job when you have a new boss, compared to 10 months later when you've realized he's a dumb f***ing idiot.

all coaches lose effectiveness over time, every single one, unless they retire on top. Hakstol was a terrible coach who had the benefit of prime Giroux/Voracek/Simmer and the boost of Ghost's best seasons. All of these guys were fully formed players who Hakstol had no part in developing. You can give him some credit for Couts if you want.

Hakstol was kept on 2+ years too long. After that guy anyone is going to improve the team. AV is roughly anyone.

They're also bad for different reasons.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
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Armored Train
You will never get a high enough pick for Patrick that you should even consider it. Fiddling with the rounds is pointless.

The only possible way it makes sense is him being Piece C or D in a win-now consolidation deal. Even then it's tricky because he makes nothing. Those cheap depth pieces with upside become important when you're capped out. Unless there's another team out there that wants to value him like a 2OA (and there isn't), you ride it out because it's the only reasonable option. You just have to pull back on your expecations.

I am officially deeming Patrick to be the Luke Schenn of 2nd Overall Centers.

It's official now.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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I am officially deeming Patrick to be the Luke Schenn of 2nd Overall Centers.

It's official now.

Sigh...

Either people overrate our prospects here or most of them really haven't panned out to hopes (Sanheim, Myers, Morin, Rubstov, Frost, Patrick). All have value on ice but none of them have lived up to their ceilings so far.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,308
Armored Train
You also eat snickers and ranch dressing together. Your opinion means nothing.


I hate Snickers. Snickers are trash. Snickers are the Luke Schenn of Overall Candy

Sigh...

Either people overrate our prospects here or most of them really haven't panned out to hopes (Sanheim, Myers, Morin, Rubstov, Frost, Patrick). All have value on ice but none of them have lived up to their ceilings so far.

Sorry, it's just Luke Schenn from top to bottom.
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
8,136
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Las Vegas
Patrick was a better player at 17 than Frost at 18, then he had the groin injuries, surgeries the summer before the draft, surgery the summer of the draft - these were core injuries that take longer to rehab. So at 21, when he's physically mature and has 2 seasons under his belt, basically his brain went tilt.

I'd say it's a tad bit premature to write him off. He's cheap as pointed out above, can play center and RW, PK and PP. He's had some bad puck luck this year and his timing and stick work is off.

what's your plan for Frost, Patrick, Laczy next year?
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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what's your plan for Frost, Patrick, Laczy next year?

Put 'em in the Thunderdome and let 'em thrash it out.

Frost can play LW or C, Patrick C or RW, Laczynski is also a C, RW candidate.
So their play will dictate their fate.
I think Frost will end up the 3C, Patrick and Laczynski 4C and 4RW (in either order) to start the season.
If Wisdom is ready next season, we could have a heck of a 4th line that could play 11-12 minutes a night, rotating all four lines.
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
8,136
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Las Vegas
Put 'em in the Thunderdome and let 'em thrash it out.

Frost can play LW or C, Patrick C or RW, Laczynski is also a C, RW candidate.
So their play will dictate their fate.
I think Frost will end up the 3C, Patrick and Laczynski 4C and 4RW (in either order) to start the season.
If Wisdom is ready next season, we could have a heck of a 4th line that could play 11-12 minutes a night, rotating all four lines.

Does anyone think Patrick is better than Wisdom right now?
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Does anyone think Patrick is better than Wisdom right now?

Way too early for both of them.
Let's see if Wisdom hits a wall in the AHL and Patrick improves down the stretch.
I'm just having fun envisioning a Wisdom - Laczynski - Patrick 4th line.
 
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