GDT: [#35] Chicago Blackhawks @ Dallas Stars, 7:30pm CT [FS-SW]

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Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
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Then Jamie Benn can go the **** back to playing baseball if he's gonna not show up every game.

If your main concern is Nuke with this ****ty ass team then you dont know what you're looking at anyway.
Main concern, no. A concern, yes. Very much yes.

Looking better means nothing. The standings are determined by wins and losses. Wins happen when you score more goals than your opponent. Nichushkin was paid and slotted as a second line winger to contribute to goal scoring, and he’s not doing that at all. He belongs solidly on the list of problems. High up the list, too.
 

Zapp

Registered User
Mar 14, 2016
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Main concern, no. A concern, yes. Very much yes.

Looking better means nothing. The standings are determined by wins and losses. Wins happen when you score more goals than your opponent. Nichushkin was paid and slotted as a second line winger to contribute to goal scoring, and he’s not doing that at all. He belongs solidly on the list of problems. High up the list, too.


You could put his lack of production on the list of problems. But it's not high on the list at all.

Jamie Benn and Jim Nill top the list for me. It's really not an argument anymore. They have been the constant, and they've failed to meet expectations repeatedly.

Hanzal and Methot who were paid more to pad our lineup and dont even play (hanzal kinda plays, I guess). Hanzal is a wasted roster spot and cap space. Methot is a waste of cap space.

Shore disappeared, Janmark disappeared, Pitlick and Ritchie are pretty worthless now.

Honka is gone and we all know it. He is a much bigger bust than people try to make Val out to be which is funny because we were literally down 3 defensemen and he couldn't even take Hanley or Fedun out of the lineup.

These are all players that I see nothing from. Almost every other night. Some of them every single night.

Name a single player who has had more chances to score than Val in our last few games. Him not scoring is frustrating, but his constant drive to try and score is a lot more welcome than watching our top line LW captain get paid 9m a year to show up for a quarter of the season.

This team cant even score on the f***ing powerplay and people still point to the 23 year old russian kid who just got back to the NHL. Lol its laughable the way some of you dissect this teams problems.

Most of you didnt even give a shit he was coming back anyway, now you're pissed he isn't carrying the team. :help:
 

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,604
15,488
South of Heaven
Nichushkin’s lack of production needs to be high on the list. Him embracing the role of no offense checking winger is cute but not what this team needs. Nill threw $3 million and a second line spot at Nichushkin with the expectation that he’d provide second line levels of offense. Instead, we are getting numbers that even Craig Ludwig would consider a down year.

And Chances? I don’t give a shit about chances. It’s f***ing Christmas. Talking about chances is what guys do on a two week slump. Nichushkin isn’t pulling his weight, and that has created a big hole in the lineup.

Maybe he should quit hockey and take up professional horseshoes. There he’d be a god.
 
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hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,173
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Most teams have a 10-15 goal player occupying the 2nd line winger spot. Add 15 goals to the Stars total and they jump from 26th in offense to somewhere in the middle. You're also probably getting better defense from a replacement level player. Last night was a perfect example of Nichushkin's failure to finish directly costing the team points in the standings. It wasn't the only time. Also, while he has been in a position to get chances to score, his lack of ability is preventing those chances from actually being threatening. He is not forcing the defense to make a spectacular play. Everything he does is easily defended. He's bound to get some garbage goals/points, but I would not be surprised if he goes the entire year without producing any actual scoring.

You can say that Benn's play is a problem, and every problem is Nill's problem because he manages the team, but Nichushkin so far has underperformed to a degree that we haven't seen in a few years.

Nobody is expecting Nichushkin to carry the team, he just needs to do his job. If everyone is doing their job, nobody needs to carry the team.
 

HatchtrickBateman

Registered User
Jun 29, 2011
471
66
Lincoln, NE
You could put his lack of production on the list of problems. But it's not high on the list at all.

Jamie Benn and Jim Nill top the list for me. It's really not an argument anymore. They have been the constant, and they've failed to meet expectations repeatedly.

Hanzal and Methot who were paid more to pad our lineup and dont even play (hanzal kinda plays, I guess). Hanzal is a wasted roster spot and cap space. Methot is a waste of cap space.

Shore disappeared, Janmark disappeared, Pitlick and Ritchie are pretty worthless now.

Honka is gone and we all know it. He is a much bigger bust than people try to make Val out to be which is funny because we were literally down 3 defensemen and he couldn't even take Hanley or Fedun out of the lineup.

These are all players that I see nothing from. Almost every other night. Some of them every single night.

Name a single player who has had more chances to score than Val in our last few games. Him not scoring is frustrating, but his constant drive to try and score is a lot more welcome than watching our top line LW captain get paid 9m a year to show up for a quarter of the season.

This team cant even score on the ****ing powerplay and people still point to the 23 year old russian kid who just got back to the NHL. Lol its laughable the way some of you dissect this teams problems.

Most of you didnt even give a **** he was coming back anyway, now you're pissed he isn't carrying the team. :help:
Hanza certainly brings more to the table than Val.

Yes, Honka sucks right now. Perhaps he put too much pressure on himself after our fan base got on their knees for him last season.

I don’t know why you’d bring up Shore. He may not be playing hot right now, but he’s likely already made more of an impact than Val will all season. I’m not even a fan of Shore.

I would love for Val to start finishing, as it would help this team enormously. Don’t see it though.
 
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Zapp

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Mar 14, 2016
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Nichushkin’s lack of production needs to be high on the list. Him embracing the role of no offense checking winger is cute but not what this team needs. Nill threw $3 million and a second line spot at Nichushkin with the expectation that he’d provide second line levels of offense. Instead, we are getting numbers that even Craig Ludwig would consider a down year.

And Chances? I don’t give a **** about chances. It’s ****ing Christmas. Talking about chances is what guys do on a two week slump. Nichushkin isn’t pulling his weight, and that has created a big hole in the lineup.

Maybe he should quit hockey and take up professional horseshoes. There he’d be a god.


Lmfao nobody cares what you do and don't give a shit about. You're evaluating a hockey team like its a f***ing EA sports game. Val Nichushkin is not this teams problem, I don't know how anyone with a reasonable understanding of how successful hockey teams work could think that. We've been mediocre since we drafted him, since he left for the KHL, and now that he came back.

Your bias on Nuke has always been clear, but really it's stupid to put the blame on him.
 
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BfantZ

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Jun 22, 2017
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You could put his lack of production on the list of problems. But it's not high on the list at all.

Jamie Benn and Jim Nill top the list for me. It's really not an argument anymore. They have been the constant, and they've failed to meet expectations repeatedly.

Hanzal and Methot who were paid more to pad our lineup and dont even play (hanzal kinda plays, I guess). Hanzal is a wasted roster spot and cap space. Methot is a waste of cap space.

Shore disappeared, Janmark disappeared, Pitlick and Ritchie are pretty worthless now.

Honka is gone and we all know it. He is a much bigger bust than people try to make Val out to be which is funny because we were literally down 3 defensemen and he couldn't even take Hanley or Fedun out of the lineup.

These are all players that I see nothing from. Almost every other night. Some of them every single night.

Name a single player who has had more chances to score than Val in our last few games. Him not scoring is frustrating, but his constant drive to try and score is a lot more welcome than watching our top line LW captain get paid 9m a year to show up for a quarter of the season.

This team cant even score on the ****ing powerplay and people still point to the 23 year old russian kid who just got back to the NHL. Lol its laughable the way some of you dissect this teams problems.

Most of you didnt even give a **** he was coming back anyway, now you're pissed he isn't carrying the team. :help:
The thing that sucks about nichushkin is he is physically dominant out there . He rarely loses a puck battle , and is almost always in good position offensively and defensively . He just keeps throwing the puck at the pads . If he could loosen up and take his time around the net he would probably be right up with benn seguin scoring wise . Every game you watch him he looks like one of our best players and it seems crazy that he hasn’t scored yet .
 
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Zapp

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I'm not trying to throw shade at anyone here. Even at Troy with how much we disagree.

The #1 thing that pisses me off about this team is the lack of accountability. I understand it in small markets, but I'm from Cincinnati where the Bengals exist. Marvin Lewis is the longest tenured coach in sports history to never win a playoff game and Cincinnati is worse than Edmonton when it comes to 1st round picks not getting it done. My frustration comes from where I know Dallas will end up if they keep us up.

We're not close to a cup guys. And we're going to have a lot of money tied up in a core that I dont think can get it done.

Anyone truly believe Jamie Benn can play better more consistently than he is now? That dude used up all his mileage too early when he had no team around him.
 

Elysian

Emo Stars Fan
Dec 4, 2011
11,327
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Norton, OH
This team's biggest problem is Jim Nill, full stop.

Montgomery also isn't a good coach. Honka had his two best games of the season, and was benched yet again for AHL plugs. That's not on Honka, that's on Montgomery.
 
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Zapp

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This team's biggest problem is Jim Nill, full stop.

Montgomery also isn't a good coach. Honka had his two best games of the season, and was benched yet again for AHL plugs. That's not on Honka, that's on Montgomery.

I agree with everything except on Honka. I just don't think he has the IQ let alone the frame to be good defensively.
 

Zapp

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Mar 14, 2016
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Honka is fine defensively, and good offensively, when he's allowed to be. Don't confuse lack of confidence due to misuse for lack of hockey IQ.

We don't need good offensively, Klingberg and Heiskanen are better and I think Honka is sub-par defensively. Has trouble keeping opposing players to the outside, loses puck battles often and doesn't do a good job of clearing the puck either. We have plenty of offensive skill in the back-end and Honka definitely hasn't shown as much as Klingberg or Heiskanen. We need guys that can limit the time the puck is in our zone and Honka sucks at that. Plain and simple.

I'm not confused about the difference between IQ and confidence. I played for 16 years and have seen enough to know when a player consistently chooses the wrong outlet.

Everyone has bitched about offense and scoring all year. Honka was drafted as an offensive d-man who can powerplay QB. His most valuable skillset to us is to drive offense from the back-end and when the team has needed that the most from everyone, he still can't be effective.

You can't teach confidence, that's not how it works. You earn confidence and build it. There were wide open roster spots for him to take and lock down and he failed to do so. Fedun locked his down and has been a tweener his entire career.
 

Smelling Salt

Busey is life
Mar 8, 2006
6,957
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Winnipeg
I think Val's effort level and general play has been pretty good the last 6 games. Probably even longer than that. Like, noticeably good. But I agree with Troy when he says trying hard is great, but you gotta produce. It's mind boggling that one hasn't even bounced in off his leg or something. He was definitely brought back and signed to a contract to produce offense which he is not doing. But he's not alone.

I'd still like to see him spend time on the first line, though he may have already lost that chance to Guri.
 
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Elysian

Emo Stars Fan
Dec 4, 2011
11,327
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Norton, OH
We don't need good offensively, Klingberg and Heiskanen are better and I think Honka is sub-par defensively. Has trouble keeping opposing players to the outside, loses puck battles often and doesn't do a good job of clearing the puck either. We have plenty of offensive skill in the back-end and Honka definitely hasn't shown as much as Klingberg or Heiskanen. We need guys that can limit the time the puck is in our zone and Honka sucks at that. Plain and simple.

I'm not confused about the difference between IQ and confidence. I played for 16 years and have seen enough to know when a player consistently chooses the wrong outlet.

Everyone has *****ed about offense and scoring all year. Honka was drafted as an offensive d-man who can powerplay QB. His most valuable skillset to us is to drive offense from the back-end and when the team has needed that the most from everyone, he still can't be effective.

You can't teach confidence, that's not how it works. You earn confidence and build it. There were wide open roster spots for him to take and lock down and he failed to do so. Fedun locked his down and has been a tweener his entire career.
We need defenders who can transition the puck. Honka does that pretty well. We also need offense, badly. Our defense is already quite good, we're still one of the top teams in goals allowed. Our problem is scoring. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

You don't teach confidence, but not playing a 1st round draft pick over AHL plugs who aren't actually playing better is a great way to wreck it.
 

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,604
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South of Heaven
Lmfao nobody cares what you do and don't give a **** about. You're evaluating a hockey team like its a ****ing EA sports game. Val Nichushkin is not this teams problem, I don't know how anyone with a reasonable understanding of how successful hockey teams work could think that. We've been mediocre since we drafted him, since he left for the KHL, and now that he came back.

Your bias on Nuke has always been clear, but really it's stupid to put the blame on him.
I put blame on all kinds of people, starting with Nill, going through our disappointing super stars, and on down to the spares at the bottom of the roster, so spare me. If you’d stop defending Nichushkin for a minute, you’d see that. I’ve been calling for Nill to get fired for two seasons now.

Among the problems is Nichushkin. He deserves blame for failing to do his job. And Nill deserves blame for building a roster where Nichushkin was paid to be a second line player who puts up second line offense. Nill’s gamble has been a bust, and the team has suffered for it. They’ve struggled to find other players to do the job Nichushkin has failed to do. They’ve plowed through Hintz, Shore, Janmark, Ritchie, and pretty much every other dude on the roster.

That gaping hole on the second line has cost this team wins. If you aren’t going to assign Nichushkin some blame for his role in failing to do his job, then I think you shouldn’t be talking about how others should evaluate teams.
 

hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,173
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Any blame placed on a roster player is mirrored onto the GM. All we are doing is discussing the apparent problems that the GM has been failing to solve over the years. It's hard to truly blame Nichushkin because he is what he is. The real issue is that for some reason Nill though Nichushkin was a better player than he is. It seems like every failure comes back to scouting one way or another.
 
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Zapp

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Mar 14, 2016
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I put blame on all kinds of people, starting with Nill, going through our disappointing super stars, and on down to the spares at the bottom of the roster, so spare me. If you’d stop defending Nichushkin for a minute, you’d see that. I’ve been calling for Nill to get fired for two seasons now.

Among the problems is Nichushkin. He deserves blame for failing to do his job. And Nill deserves blame for building a roster where Nichushkin was paid to be a second line player who puts up second line offense. Nill’s gamble has been a bust, and the team has suffered for it. They’ve struggled to find other players to do the job Nichushkin has failed to do. They’ve plowed through Hintz, Shore, Janmark, Ritchie, and pretty much every other dude on the roster.

That gaping hole on the second line has cost this team wins. If you aren’t going to assign Nichushkin some blame for his role in failing to do his job, then I think you shouldn’t be talking about how others should evaluate teams.


You can backpedal all you want but you were adamant in your previous posts about Nuke being a "main" problem on the list. I think you've had plenty of time watching this team to make the assessment that there are quite a few bigger problems than Nuke.

Yeah sure Nuke not scoring is a problem.

Janmark not scoring is a problem

Us having 0 players in the top 50 for points is a problem.

Martin Hanzal being on our team is a problem.

Brett Ritchie being trash is a problem.

Jim Nill addressing too little too late is problem.

Lack of leadership and chemistry is a problem.

Ben Bishop being a good goalie but also being made of glass is a problem.

I can keep going if you want, theres way bigger issues for you to focusing on the guy who actually looks like hes progressing every game and trying to make things happen rather than being invisible like most of our players.

I notice Nuke everytime hes on the ice and hes impactful. If he starts scoring it will be interesting to see some reactions.
 

ZeHockeyFan

Registered User
Apr 9, 2014
2,244
497
Then Jamie Benn can go the **** back to playing baseball if he's gonna not show up every game.

If your main concern is Nuke with this ****ty ass team then you dont know what you're looking at anyway.

Awww, someone got triggered. Your best response is a tu quoque fallacy? Even then, here's the main difference between the two:

Jamie is a damn good, legit top-six, player who is struggling for reasons unknown.

Val is a never-was who still gets the minutes and the money to play like shit. If he still can't shoot then he really can't shoot or is not working hard enough to succeed as the player he was drafted to be, which implies that he is indeed a shitty option for a top-six.
 
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Kcb12345

Registered User
Jun 6, 2017
28,979
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You guys also realize the same guy that signed Val to be a top 6 player also signed Comeau to be one too right?

Maybe your blame is at the wrong guy...Don't blame the guy signing the contract lmao

Sure he's not doing enough in his role on this team offensively but neither is anyone else outside of Heiskanen and Radulov.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
9,072
7,020
Even then, here's the main difference between the two:

Jamie is a damn good, legit top-six, player who is struggling for reasons unknown.

Val is a never-was who still gets the minutes and the money to play like ****. If he still can't shoot then he really can't shoot or is not working hard enough to succeed as the player he was drafted to be, which implies that he is indeed a ****ty option for a top-six.

Who the f*** are you watching he gets barely 12mins ? and he plays mostly with Faksa and Pitlick, other than a handful of shifts with Benn - Seguin and Benn-Spezza. He's not really ever been tried in the top 6. Much like Dickinson hasn't for some reason.
Other than his inflated pay, (which there are worst offenders on the team IE Spezza, Hanzal, Methot) he's not a major problem.
 
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Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,604
15,488
South of Heaven
You can backpedal all you want but you were adamant in your previous posts about Nuke being a "main" problem on the list. I think you've had plenty of time watching this team to make the assessment that there are quite a few bigger problems than Nuke.

Yeah sure Nuke not scoring is a problem.

Janmark not scoring is a problem

Us having 0 players in the top 50 for points is a problem.

Martin Hanzal being on our team is a problem.

Brett Ritchie being trash is a problem.

Jim Nill addressing too little too late is problem.

Lack of leadership and chemistry is a problem.

Ben Bishop being a good goalie but also being made of glass is a problem.

I can keep going if you want, theres way bigger issues for you to focusing on the guy who actually looks like hes progressing every game and trying to make things happen rather than being invisible like most of our players.

I notice Nuke everytime hes on the ice and hes impactful. If he starts scoring it will be interesting to see some reactions.
No, if a player paid to contribute offense isn’t producing offense, then “impactful” is not a word to be associated with him. I don’t care how many close calls he generates. You don’t win games by almost scoring, but you sure can lose them that way.

But I am glad to see you finally admit Nichushkin’s failure to do his job is a problem.

As for what I bolded from your post, that’s literally the opposite of what I wrote. Scroll up, dude.
 
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