30+ Goals and 200+ PIMS

CLF4life

Bourque ** Lidstrom
May 7, 2004
233
1
Niagara Falls.Ont
Not many have accomplished this feat. Who was the best player to do this. I only remember Gallant at the end of his career, Great player and a mean sob





Gerard Gallant 1989-1990 69 36 44 80 -6 254
Gerard Gallant 1988-1989 76 39 54 93 +7 230
Gerard Gallant 1986-1987 80 38 34 72 -5 216
Gerard Gallant 1987-1988 73 34 39 73 +24 242

Pat Verbeek 1990-1991 80 43 39 82 +0 246
Pat Verbeek 1987-1988 73 46 31 77 +29 227
Pat Verbeek 1989-1990 80 44 45 89 +1 228


Brian Sutter 1982-1983 79 46 30 76 +0 254
Brian Sutter 1981-1982 74 39 36 75 -2 239
Brian Sutter 1980-1981 78 35 34 69 +12 232

Dave Williams 1980-1981 77 35 27 62 +4 343
Dave Williams 1979-1980 78 30 23 53 -13 278

Rick Tocchet 1987-1988 65 31 33 64 +3 299
Rick Tocchet 1992-1993 80 48 61 109 +28 252

Wendel Clark 1986-1987 80 37 23 60 -23 271
Wendel Clark 1985-1986 66 34 11 45 -27 227

Keith Tkachuk 1993-1994 84 41 40 81 -12 255
Keith Tkachuk 1996-1997 81 52 34 86 -1 228

Al Secord 1985-1986 80 40 36 76 +8 201
Al Secord 1981-1982 80 44 31 75 -17 303

Kevin Stevens 1991-1992 80 54 69 123 +8 254

Paul Holmgren 1979-1980 74 30 35 65 +35 267

Willi Plett 1980-1981 78 38 30 68 +5 239

Richard Vaive 1980-1981 75 33 29 62 -16 229

B. Shanahan 1993-1994 81 52 50 102 -9 211

Perry Turnbull 1980-1981 75 34 22 56 +15 209

Gary Roberts 1991-1992 76 53 37 90 +32 207

Stanley Smyl 1979-1980 77 31 47 78 +28 204

Kevin Dineen 1992-1993 83 35 28 63 +14 201

Chris Gratton 1996-1997 82 30 32 62 -28 201
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
Not many have accomplished this feat. Who was the best player to do this. I only remember Gallant at the end of his career, Great player and a mean sob





Gerard Gallant 1989-1990 69 36 44 80 -6 254
Gerard Gallant 1988-1989 76 39 54 93 +7 230
Gerard Gallant 1986-1987 80 38 34 72 -5 216
Gerard Gallant 1987-1988 73 34 39 73 +24 242

Pat Verbeek 1990-1991 80 43 39 82 +0 246
Pat Verbeek 1987-1988 73 46 31 77 +29 227
Pat Verbeek 1989-1990 80 44 45 89 +1 228


Brian Sutter 1982-1983 79 46 30 76 +0 254
Brian Sutter 1981-1982 74 39 36 75 -2 239
Brian Sutter 1980-1981 78 35 34 69 +12 232

Dave Williams 1980-1981 77 35 27 62 +4 343
Dave Williams 1979-1980 78 30 23 53 -13 278

Rick Tocchet 1987-1988 65 31 33 64 +3 299
Rick Tocchet 1992-1993 80 48 61 109 +28 252

Wendel Clark 1986-1987 80 37 23 60 -23 271
Wendel Clark 1985-1986 66 34 11 45 -27 227

Keith Tkachuk 1993-1994 84 41 40 81 -12 255
Keith Tkachuk 1996-1997 81 52 34 86 -1 228

Al Secord 1985-1986 80 40 36 76 +8 201
Al Secord 1981-1982 80 44 31 75 -17 303

Kevin Stevens 1991-1992 80 54 69 123 +8 254

Paul Holmgren 1979-1980 74 30 35 65 +35 267

Willi Plett 1980-1981 78 38 30 68 +5 239

Richard Vaive 1980-1981 75 33 29 62 -16 229

B. Shanahan 1993-1994 81 52 50 102 -9 211

Perry Turnbull 1980-1981 75 34 22 56 +15 209

Gary Roberts 1991-1992 76 53 37 90 +32 207

Stanley Smyl 1979-1980 77 31 47 78 +28 204

Kevin Dineen 1992-1993 83 35 28 63 +14 201

Chris Gratton 1996-1997 82 30 32 62 -28 201

One of them will end up being a HHOF'er and the others won't.

As far as other players are concerned, I would've thought Cam Neely and Wilf Paiement as the best plausible candidates. I knew Cam didn't get penalized that much, but I thought he reached 200 PIM at least once (he didn't). As for Paiement, he only had one 200+ PIMs season, and while he posted decent point totals, he just chose the worst possible season to turn into a playmaker (...well, as far as this milestone is concerned)
 

Granlund2Pulkkinen*

Guest
Tkachuk's 52 goal 228 PIM season has to rank as statistically the best powerforward season ever.
 

Smokey McCanucks

PuckDaddy "Perfect HFBoard Trade Proposal 02/24/14
Dec 21, 2010
3,165
283
Steve Downie was the most recent to get 20 and 200, before that it was Theo Fleury, I remember looking it up last season. 30 and 200, even more impressive, I wonder when we'll see it again.
 

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,863
2,236
For some reason I think Richards '50 season more impressing. 43 goals and 114 PIM. In a era when both are huge numbers. In comparison:

Richard 43 goals and 114PIM put him at #1 in scoring and #7 in PIMs.

Gratton wasnt even top-10 with any of his numbers. Shanahan was top-10 in goals but not in PIMs.

Gordie Howe had similiar seasons to Richard. Much more impressive than scoring 30 and reaching 200PIMs when its not even a top-10 feat. Keith Tkatchuk is probably the most impressive of the bunch (#1 in goals and #10 in PIM)
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Pale King

begbeee

Registered User
Oct 16, 2009
4,158
30
Slovakia
Keith Tkachuk 1996-1997 81 52 34 86 -1 228

Kevin Stevens 1991-1992 80 54 69 123 +8 254

B. Shanahan 1993-1994 81 52 50 102 -9 211

Gary Roberts 1991-1992 76 53 37 90 +32 207
I found these the most impressive with K. Stevens as a winner.
 

toob

Registered User
Dec 31, 2010
746
2
if you are curious what happened to Gallant--he got taken off the Stevie Y line

Only partly the reason. Injuries ruined Gallant's effectiveness and career in the early 90s and these injuries were what got him off Stevie's wing in the first place. From what ive read in the 80s Gallant was a tough and scrappy player who had decent offensive and defensive instincts and for whatever reason had good chemistry with Yzerman. By the 90s however back injuries specifically made him a shell of his former self. He became a liability defensively and couldnt shoot nearly as well.

Yzerman did have a lot of his best years with Gallant after all. At least he brought a degree of consistency and competence to Yzerman's wing which did not exist in the 90s where the lack of these things from his wingers is partly the reason for his scoring decline. In fact in the second half of the 93 ssn where Yzerman exploded Gallant was put back on his wing although admittedly this is prolly more coincidental than anything else.
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
2
The Fenway
Visit site
One of them will end up being a HHOF'er and the others won't.

As far as other players are concerned, I would've thought Cam Neely and Wilf Paiement as the best plausible candidates. I knew Cam didn't get penalized that much, but I thought he reached 200 PIM at least once (he didn't). As for Paiement, he only had one 200+ PIMs season, and while he posted decent point totals, he just chose the worst possible season to turn into a playmaker (...well, as far as this milestone is concerned)

Neely was heeding to management's request to be more effective by staying out of the penalty box. Often the Bruins were threadbare after Neely and the 2nd line so usually it behoove opponents to double team / hack Neely into taking retaliatory penalties....epsecially in the playoffs where the other tactic was to run Bourque quickly so he couldn't take charge of the ice and force turnovers.

Tikkanen was a master at taking Neely off the ice.

Neely did have a 42 goal / 69 points / +30 / 175 PIMs and a 37 goals / 75 points / +14 / 190 PIMs seasons.

The following two years after developing some restraint he came up with 55 goals / 92 points / +10 / 117 PIMs and 51 goals / 91 points / +26 / 98 PIMs....and then he got hurt. He was 26 years old.
 
Last edited:

CLF4life

Bourque ** Lidstrom
May 7, 2004
233
1
Niagara Falls.Ont
I was sure that Neely was in the 50 G and 200 Pim club untill I did some research.

Keith Tkachuk 1996-1997 81 52 34 86 -1 228

Kevin Stevens 1991-1992 80 54 69 123 +8 254

B. Shanahan 1993-1994 81 52 50 102 -9 211

Gary Roberts 1991-1992 76 53 37 90 +32 207

Tocchet came close with 48.
 

begbeee

Registered User
Oct 16, 2009
4,158
30
Slovakia
I found interesting the most 30+ G 200+ PIMs seasons came during very high scoring seasons. Probably there is no difference between nowadays 20G + 200 PIMs guy.

I was sure that Neely was in the 50 G and 200 Pim club untill I did some research.
Probably I'm going to sound like an idiot but since when is checking the wiki or hockey db "a research" ?
 

CLF4life

Bourque ** Lidstrom
May 7, 2004
233
1
Niagara Falls.Ont
I found interesting the most 30+ G 200+ PIMs seasons came during very high scoring seasons. Probably there is no difference between nowadays 20G + 200 PIMs guy.

Probably I'm going to sound like an idiot but since when is checking the wiki or hockey db "a research" ?

Define research
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
2
The Fenway
Visit site
From 1970 to 1997 the GPG average was over 5 GPG, with the peak being 8 GPG in 1980. The 80's to 1992 the average was 7 or more.

It dropped precipitously up until the lockout, almost to the mid-50's level, just over 5 GPG.

Right now it's at around 6 GPG.

You'll notice that there's not one player to accomplish this feat in the 00's, with Chris Gratton and Keith Tkachuk being the last to do so in 96/97.

Since then, the closest players have been Theo Fleury with 24 / 216 (01/02) and Steve Downie with 22 / 208 (09/10).

That's it.

Whomever mentioned that the equivalent of it being 20 / 200 today is dead on....sort of. Think about it, in the last 15 years only two players have had 20/200. The 17 years prior, there were 32 players with 30/200.....of which 7 of them were 40/200 and 4 of them were 50/200.

The actual equivalent today would be 15/150....and only 27 players have done that since the last 30/200 season! That's 5 less players!

And even crazier still.....the player with the MOST 15/150 seasons is.......[drumroll].....Sean Avery, doing it 3 times!

I thought for sure that I'd see Milan Lucic in there but the most PIMs he's had in a season is 136.
 
Last edited:

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
From 1970 to 1997 the GPG average was over 5 GPG, with the peak being 8 GPG in 1980. The 80's to 1992 the average was 7 or more.

It dropped precipitously up until the lockout, almost to the mid-50's level, just over 5 GPG.

Right now it's at around 6 GPG.

You'll notice that there's not one player to accomplish this feat in the 00's, with Chris Gratton and Keith Tkachuk being the last to do so in 96/97.

Since then, the closest players have been Theo Fleury with 24 / 216 (01/02) and Steve Downie with 22 / 208 (09/10).

That's it.

Whomever mentioned that the equivalent of it being 20 / 200 today is dead on....sort of. Think about it, in the last 15 years only two players have had 20/200. The 17 years prior, there were 32 players with 30/200.....of which 7 of them were 40/200 and 4 of them were 50/200.

The actual equivalent today would be 15/150....and only 27 players have done that since the last 30/200 season! That's 5 less players!

And even crazier still.....the player with the MOST 15/150 seasons is.......[drumroll].....Sean Avery, doing it 3 times!

I thought for sure that I'd see Milan Lucic in there but the most PIMs he's had in a season is 136.

Since only a handfull of players even get to 200 PIM's and less than 20 most years hitting 150 it makes this thread pretty time specific, never mind all the players who played pre WW2.
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
2
The Fenway
Visit site
Post WW2 - 1946/47 to 1978/79
30/200
0 - (note: If Terry O'Reilly had scored 1 more goal, he would've been the first ever 30/200 man)

20/300 - 1
Dave Schultz - 20/348 (73/74)

20/200 - 7
Tiger Williams - 21/299 (75/76)
Dennis Hextall - 21/217 (70/71)
Willi Plett - 23/213 (78/79)
Carol Vadnais - 24/212 (69/70) - [note: highest combo by a defensman]
Terry O'Reilly - 29/211 (77/78)
Terry O'Reilly - 26/205 (78/79)
Dan Maloney - 27/203 (75/76)

20/150 - 15
Gary Howatt - 21/197 (75/76)
John Ferguson - 29/185 (68/69)
John Ferguson - 20/177 (66/67)
Mel Bridgeman - 24/184 (78/79)
Ted Lindsay - 22/184 (58/59)
Ted Linday - 27/161 (55/56)
Pete Mahovlich - 35/181 (70/71)
Willi Plett - 22/171 (77/78)
Gary Dornhoefer - 30/168 (72/72)
Brian Sutter - 41/165 (78/79)
Dan Maloney - 27/165 (74/75)
Stan Mikita - 28/154 (64/65)
Ted Bulley - 27/153 (78/79)
Rosaire Paiement - 34/152 (70/71
Terry O'Reilly - 23/150 (70/71)

15/300
Tiger Williams - 19/351 (77/78)
Tiger Williams - 18/338 (76/77)

15/200
Tiger Williams - 19/298 (78/79)
Dennis Polonich - 18/274 (76/77)
Dennis Polonich - 16/254 (77/78)
Gary Howatt - 16/205 (78/79)
Mel Bridgeman - 16/203 (77/78)

15/150
Doug Riseborough - 15/198 (74/75)
Doug Riseborough - 16/180 (75/76)
Dennis Hextall - 16/195 (77/78)
Dennis Hextall - 16/164 (75/76)
Paul Holmgren - 16/190 (77/78)
Paul Holmgren - 19/168 (78/79)
Gary Dornhoefer - 17/183 (71/72)
John Wensink - 16/181 (77/78)
Denis Potvin - 17/175 (73/74)
Reed Larson - 18/169 (78/79)
Dan Maloney - 17/157 (78/79)
John Ferguson - 17/156 (64/65)
Carol Vadnais - 15/151 (68/69)

50/125
Vic Hadfield - 50/142 (71/72)
Danny Gare - 50/129 (75/76)

40/125
Jean Beliveau - 47/143 (55/56)
Frank Mahovlich - 48/131 (60/61)

30/125
Mike Corrigan - 37/146 (72/73)
Stan Mikita - 39/146 (63/64)
Dennis Hextall - 30/140 (72/73)
Tom Rowe - 31/137 (78/79)
Bobby Schmautz - 38/137 (72/73)
Bobby Clarke - 30/136 (75/76)
Bobby Orr - 33/125 (69/70)
Maurice Richard - 38/125 (54/55)
Pierre Plante - 34/125 (74/75)

20/125
Bob 'Battleship' Kelly - 25/149 (75/76)
Bob 'Battleship' Kelly - 27/120 (74/75)
Brad Park - 25/148 - (73/74)
Brad Park - 24/130 - (71/72)
Derek Sanderson - 26/146 (68/69)
Derek Sanderson - 29/130 (70/71)
Ted Lindsay - 23/141 (49/50)
Ted Bulley - 23/141 (77/78)
Dennis Hextall - 20/138 (73/74)
Ted Irvine - 20/137 (70/71)
Ken Houston - 21/135 (78/79)
Doug Riseborough - 22/132 (76/77)
Bobby Orr - 21/133 (68/69)
Gary Dornhoefer - 28/128 (75/76)
Johnny McKenzie - 22/126 (71/72
Bryan Hextall - 20/126 (71/72)
Bobby Clarke - 27/125 (74/75)

other 1950's
Ted Lindsay - 30/123
Ted Lindsay - 32/111
Ted Lindsay - 24/110
Ted Lindsay - 26/110
Ted Lindsay - 15/110
Ted Lindsay - 30/103
Bill Enzinicki - 16/119
Vic Stasiuk - 19/118
Maurice Richard - 28/112
Tony Leswick - 15/112
Gordie Howe - 33/109
Gordie Howe - 38/100
Tod Sloan - 31/105
Tod Sloan - 37/100
Jean Beliveau - 33/105
Eric Nestorenko - 20/104
Leo Labine - 16/104


other 1946-1950
Maurice Richard - 43/114
Maurice Richard - 28/112
Maurice Richard - 20/110
Vic Stasiuk - 29/121

WW2 YRS (48 and 50 game seasons)
GOALS
Maurice Richard - 50/46
Doug Bentley - 38/22

PIMs
Pat Egan - 8/124
Jimmy Orlando - 1/111

PRE-WAR YRS
Eddie Shore - 11/165 - 43 games (27/28)
Eddie Shore - 12/130 - 40 games (26/27)
Eddie Shore - 15/105 - 44 games (30/31)
Eddie Shore - 12/105 - 42 games (29/30)
Eddie Shore - 8/102 - 48 games (32/33)
Eddie Shore - 12/96 - 39 games (28/29)
Nels Stewart - 17/133 - 43 games (26/27)
Nels Stewart - 34/119 - 36 games (25/26)
Nels Stewart - 27/104 - 41 games (27/28)
Nels Stewart - 39/81 - 44 games (29/30)
Nels Stewart - 25/75 - 42 games (30/31)
Nels Stewart - 22/68 - 48 games (33/34)
Joe Lamb - 29/119 - 44 games (29/30)
Babe Siebert - 5/116 - 42 games (26/27)
Babe Siebert - 8/109 - 39 games (27/28)
Babe Siebert - 16/108 - 35 games (25/26)
Babe Siebert - 14/94 - 39 games (29/30)
Aurele Joliat - 28/105 - 44 games (27/28)
Aurele Joliat - 30/85 - 25 games (24/25)
Dave Trottier - 26/94 - 48 games (31/32)
Billy Boucher - 17/92 - 30 games (24/25)
Sprague Cleghorn - 16/85 - 21 games (19/20)
Culy Wilson - 20/86 - 23 games (19/20)
Hooley Smith - 21/83 - 42 games (29/30)
King Clancy - 17/83 - 44 games (24/25)
Red Green - 19/81 - 30 games (24/25)
Cy Denneny - 36/80 - 20 games (17/18)
Ace Bailey - 22/78 - 44 games (27/28)
Charlie Conacher - 25/75 - 37 games (30/31)
Charlie Conacher - 23/74 - 44 games (35/36)
Howie Morenz - 40/72 - 44 games (29/30)
Howie Morenz - 33/66 - 43 games (27/28)
Hec Kilrea - 36/72 - 44 games (29/30)

GOALS
Joe Malone - 44/30 - 20 games (17/18)
Cooney Weiland - 43/27 - 44 games (29/30)
Dit Clapper - 41/48 - 44 games (29/30)

PIMs
Red Horner - 2/167 - 43 games (35/36)
Eddie Shore - 11/165 - 43 games (27/28)
Red Horner - 11/146 - 40 games (33/34)
Ching Johnson - 10/146 - 42 games (27/28)
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,352
7,833
NYC
www.HockeyProspect.com
BubbaBoot - thanks for taking the time. One note, I believe the only defensemen that ever put together 20 goal/200 PIM season were Carol Vadnais and Scott Stevens...however, further research indicates that it appears Carol Vadnais was moved to forward during the 1970 season alluded to in your post.
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
2
The Fenway
Visit site
BubbaBoot - thanks for taking the time. One note, I believe the only defensemen that ever put together 20 goal/200 PIM season were Carol Vadnais and Scott Stevens...however, further research indicates that it appears Carol Vadnais was moved to forward during the 1970 season alluded to in your post.

Oh yes, a I forgot about Vadnais' move. That makes Scott Stevens as the only defenseman as a 20/200 man. Quite a feat actually.

Close calls
Brad Maxwell 19/225 (83/84)
Dave Manson 18/352 (88/89) - Did he also play some wing?
Chris Chelios 16/212 (93/94)
Behn Wilson 16/237 (80/81)
Randy Carlyle 15/210 (87/88)
Chris Chelios 15/282 (92/93)
Dave Manson 15/210 (92/93)
Dave Manson 15/220 (91/92)
Marty McSorely 15/332 (89/90)
Marty McSorely 15/399 (92/93)
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->