30% Americans selected in the draft

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't think we should look at this as a Canada/U.S. issue, but a North America/Europe issue. The trend I think we'll continue to see is the draft dominated by North Americans at the expense of talent from Europe, in particular Russia. The other trend that's developing is the drafting of talent from non-traditional hockey playing markets. I would venture a guess and say that California is going to be a major pipeline of NHL talent in less than ten years.

 

[CUBErt]

''AMERICANS'' ... Canadiens live in AMERICA so we are NORTH AMERICANS ... ''US'' Born player is better

You're trying to tell Americans what to call themselves?

 

[couris]

montreal canadiens loves americans

 

[nashnaidoo]

I think it is rash at best to judge a hockey program's success based on 1st round picks. Such a large percentage of 1st rounders don't succeed, using these picks to pick out success before they play in the NHL is short-sighted.

There are 24 US-based NHL teams. Teams with American fans who would love to see American players on their team. I am certain that a number of American franchises selected American-born players over Europeans or Canadians simply for the marketing potential. We're all human and would prefer to cheer for our countryman than a foreigner. That's just human nature.

A Jeremy Roenick-type player in Chicago would do wonders for that teams footprint in the area. Perhaps that's part of the reason why the 'Hawks chose Kane over Turris?

I have little doubt that each franchise ideally aims to draft the best player to fill their biggest need, but when these decisions are so subjective, things like marketability definitely play a role.

 

[NeelyWasAWarrior]

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way bashing the U.S. players. I love the fact that we are now starting to produce more players with potential. Just being "real" in the fact that our young forwards potential is not up to what Canada produces in terms of "elite star" player. One that will dominate like Crosby. Maybe some day?

Crosby is a generational talent. Guys like him don't come very often. I think it would be a fair assesment to say we need more Madano, Lafontaine types in the NHL.

 

[NeelyWasAWarrior]

Hockey talent in the United States is basically comes from Michigan, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Conneticut, New York and Wisconsin, the combined population of these states is approx. 50 million. So you have Canada at around 30 million competing against a population almost twice as great, but that still manages to hold a significant edge in both quantity and quality of hockey talent produced. The real threat to Canadian dominance is if other US states become real hotbeds of hockey and dramatically increase their output f skiled players. Right now, as stated, the US as a whole is only using a fraction of its potential as a hockey nation, when and if hockey spreads in popularity, even to states already attatched to hockey on a fan level but not so much in participation, like Pennsylvania and Illinois, thats another 20 million people, almost another Canada, size wise, Whereas Canada is already operating at maximum potential and as no other regions left untapped for players.

don't forget California.Cali's going to be a player in the U.S. infusion of talent in the NHL. The Wayne Gretzky era in LA has had a major impact on hockey in the SoCal area. New Jersey also is chipping in with more NHL prospects. Add that to the 50-70 million you mentioned above and you have 3-4 x's advantage there.

 

[Big Phil]

If you want to believe that, go ahead. US hockey's amazing recent growth is only the beginning. We certainly have a ways to go, but eventually we will surpass Canada. In any case, there's nothing good that can come of this discussion so I'll end my participation on that note. You're entitled to believe whatever you choose.

Just keep in mind the two biggest victories in USA Hockey. The 1980 Olympics was huge by beating the evil empire in the biggest upset ever. Americans didnt come flocking to the NHL then. Sure there was a bit of a spike in the 80's but an article I remember back in '01-02 was saying how there are 16% or so Americans in the league which is the most since '83-84. So basically even the '96 World Cup victory didnt send them flocking to the NHL.

Also right now if you look at '06-07 out of the 25 top scorers 14 were Canadian. There were 0 Americans among the top 25. The all-star teams looked like this: 1st team: Crosby, Ovechkin, Heatley, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Brodeur. 2nd team: Lecavalier, Vanek, St. Louis, Pronger, Boyle, Luongo. 9 out of 12 of the players on the all-star teams were Canadian none American. The top 5 scorers in the NHL were Canadian. The Ducks won the Cup with a team stacked with almost nothing but Canadians. Canada won the WJC. Canada won the World Championships convincingly. (And if it matters, the Canadian women won too)

Can you name the bst US player in the leauge right now? It might be Ryan Miller. Not bad but far from "ready to take over." In the top 10 players picked in the draft 7 were Canadian 3 American. IMO the best player that will come out of the draft is Turris, born in B.C. Hey look I like what the Americans are doing. It's good. But one good draft in the first round wont make or break a country. Look at the 2008 prospects you have Steve Stamkos and then Drew Doughty maybe going 1-2. Both Canadian. In '09 no one will take Tavares' place. I'm not worried yet. Finland's goaltending factory scares me more than USA's spike. I just dont see them overtaking Canada in my lifetime. You need more elite players to become a threat. Kane (if he pans out) wont cut it.

 

[NotWendell]

americans should say thanks to the canadiens !

Despite our improvement at developing players and the increasingly popularity of the game here in the States, I have to admit the "heart" of the sport is still in Canada. It is part of the culture there. I'm a bit envious.

 

[sunb]

I am a Canadian living and working in the United States so I feel like I can offer a fairly unbiased perspective. Just taking a cursory glance at some of the posts, the Canadian posters seem to grasp onto a rather myopic position. To be brutally honest, a lot of their notions of nationalism are challenged since their perspectives are tainted by pride and emotion. Understandably so.

Analyzing the facts however, proves that the sensationalized view that "America will one day surpass Canada in producing hockey talent" does hold some merit. One cannot simply quantify the validity of this phenomenon by establishing a time-line. This is something that won't occur in the next five, twenty-five or even fifty years! Nevertheless, given the current progression, how can anyone say that America won't surpass Canada someday down the line? 100-200 years later, if the NHL continues to exist, I am confident that America has a great shot at achieving this.

Although the NHL draft isn't the most accurate barometer, the growth and development of American hockey has been unbelievable.

-In 2007, the 1st and 2nd overall picks have been Americans. Eight players drafted in the 1st round have been Americans.

-In 2006, the 1st, 5th, 7th and 8th overall picks have been Americans. Ten players drafted in the first round were Americans. Only 11 players drafted in the first round were Canadians.

-In 2005, the 2nd, 3rd, 8th and 9th overall picks were Americans. Eight players drafted in the first round were Americans. Only 13 players drafted in the first round were Canadians.

You go back 10 years to 1997, 1996 and 1995. The difference is night and day.

-In 1997, only three players drafted in the first round were Americans.

-In 1996, only three players drafted in the first round were Americans.

-In 1995, only one player drafted in the first round was American.

At this pace of development, the Americans will progress past Canada one day in terms of producing top hockey talent in both quantity and quality. Canadians can argue that their culture is synonymous with hockey and the atmosphere that is conducive to hockey is unparalleled. True, but the American population is 300 million as opposed to Canada's 30 million.

As more and more Americans follow hockey, this trend will continue to grow. Also, places like Texas, California, Florida and the entire American south has only recently been introduced to hockey. Within a decade, you'll start to see those states churn out hockey talent. Actually, California already has with Jon Blum drafted in the 1st round this year. Blum is a 1989 birth and Gretzky inspired hockey in California in 1993 when Blum was four years old. As more and more of these American kids grow up with hockey as teams like Carolina, Anaheim and Tampa win the cup, more and more American kids will develop into viable NHL'ers one day.

Also, don't forget the talent-drain. Tons of NHL talent from Gretzky to Brett Hull to Crosby (1st in NHL scoring this year) to Stasny (30th in scoring) to Tanguay (25h in NHL scoring) to thousands of others were influenced by their fathers growing up. All these fathers played integral parts in the development of these kids in their hockey lives since they either played, was drafted or was a part of hockey. 24 of the 30 NHL teams are located in America. As the top Canadian, European, American and world talent relocates to America and settles there, most of the hockey legacy will be growing their roots in America. For example, as guys like the Niedermayer's, the Pronger's and Tampa's three stars settle in the States, they'll inevitably teach their kids and the kids in their communities to appreciate hockey. A guy like Parise is the perfect example. JP Parise was a 3rd line hockey player who played in the US. He settled there and brought up his son, Zach Parise, to be a hockey player. Zach Parise is now a great NHL player (who is 2nd on NJ in scoring) and who has grown up American.

I've been typing for too long so I'll stop now. But if anyone takes an unbiased look at the torrid progression of American hockey should see the same phenomenon. It is asinine to believe Canada will always remain the superior hockey nation in producing top talent simply because of its culture and climate. Climate is a unparalleled advantage but the difference of 270 million in population easily offsets that. Then we're left with culture. Culture is fluid and changes with time - this is exactly what we're seeing with hockey in the United States.

 

[time]

First, somebody here read up on Thomas Malthus or take a course in Economics 101: a statistical trend does not continue indefinitely along the same slope.

Example: let's say snowfall has increased by an average of 0.4 inches per year for five years. . . OH NO! in a hundred years we will be buried under another 3 1/3 feet of snow!

American hockey is in a growth phase. Congratulations are well deserved. But to extrapolate a recent trend into such a claim ("inevitable") is enough to make a statistician reach for the bottle.

If this were the case, the U.S. would dominate in Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, Tennis and Hockey -- all sports in which other countries hold world championships.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Don't forget the impact of snoop dog.

 

[Hasbro]

Despite our improvement at developing players and the increasingly popularity of the game here in the States, I have to admit the "heart" of the sport is still in Canada. It is part of the culture there. I'm a bit envious.

The brain is somewhere else.

 

[Stephen]

If you want to believe that, go ahead. US hockey's amazing recent growth is only the beginning. We certainly have a ways to go, but eventually we will surpass Canada. In any case, there's nothing good that can come of this discussion so I'll end my participation on that note. You're entitled to believe whatever you choose.

Just like you're the dominant soccer power on earth right?

 

[Dying Alive]

Sometimes I get the feeling - and I'm sure that numerous people will correct me if I'm wrong - that there is a contingent of hockey fans in Canada who are secretly (or not-so-secretly) rooting for the expansion of hockey in the US to be a colossal failure because they have some kind of odd insecurity complex when it comes to the US and they are worried about us "taking their game from them." I could be off base here, it's just a feeling that I get from my experience in talking to Canadian hockey fans both on the internets and IRL. I mean no offense by that statement whatsoever, I just don't know how to phrase it any differently.

Per capita, I doubt very sincerely that hockey will ever amass the same popularity in the US as it has in Canada. I just don't see it happening with a country that has a population the size of the US, and we all know that NFL football will always be number one here. I do see hockey's popularity continuing to grow by leaps and bounds for the foreseeable future, though. We may end up with a larger number hockey fans in the US, but that doesn't necessarily mean that hockey on the whole will be more popular here.

ETA: It's probably fair to mention that a large basis for my opinion is the open and undisguised disdain that the Canadian sports media seems to have for American hockey franchises, particularly those in expansion markets.

 

[time]

Although the NHL draft isn't the most accurate barometer, the growth and development of American hockey has been unbelievable.

-In 2007, the 1st and 2nd overall picks have been Americans. Eight players drafted in the 1st round have been Americans.

-In 2006, the 1st, 5th, 7th and 8th overall picks have been Americans. Ten players drafted in the first round were Americans. Only 11 players drafted in the first round were Canadians.

-In 2005, the 2nd, 3rd, 8th and 9th overall picks were Americans. Eight players drafted in the first round were Americans. Only 13 players drafted in the first round were Canadians.

Just noticed the above nugget. One correction: there were ten Yanks in the first round, not eight. One omission: there were 16 Canadians in the first round this year.

Thus, following the statistical illogic of this thread, American hockey development has hit a plateau, while Canadian hockey is rising through the roof.

Ergo, it is "inevitable" that Canadian hockey will be surpassed by. . . Canada!

 

[Lunatik*]

I figure both Johnson's to become better defensemen in the NHL than Staal.

they very well could be... but then again guys like Phaneuf & Weber could be better than all 3... its too early to tell with anyone that has yet to play a full season in the NHL... but when looking at the young stars the majority are still canadian

 

[philthy mcnasty*]

Sometimes I get the feeling - and I'm sure that numerous people will correct me if I'm wrong - that there is a contingent of hockey fans in Canada who are secretly (or not-so-secretly) rooting for the expansion of hockey in the US to be a colossal failure because they have some kind of odd insecurity complex when it comes to the US and they are worried about us "taking their game from them." I could be off base here, it's just a feeling that I get from my experience in talking to Canadian hockey fans both on the internets and IRL. I mean no offense by that statement whatsoever, I just don't know how to phrase it any differently.

With all due respect, some o you Yanks trying to pull the "Canadian insecurities" card.. unless you've lived in Canada - doesn't matter where because the intensity and passion for the game is equal pretty much wherever you go - let's get to the bottom line... Its in the flesh and blood up here don't kid yourself.. no matter what you're ethnicity or background, a little piece of it is implanted into virtually every person, whether they like the game or not. I highly doubt Americans can lay the same claim. You guys simply won't and don't understand unless you live up here. I consider myself a "hardcore" fan along with a ton of other buddies who all have considerable amounts of hockey knowledge. Not many people (you could say "casual fans") really give a **** about any sort of US developement program. It's more of an irritation up here because certain markets really don't appreciate the sport, the players and the skill that we grow and learn to appreciate. It's different, hard to explain. But no one worries about the US trying to take over hockey on this continent. It will forever be perfected, masterminded and created up here in Canada. Too many good players. With all this said, I think it's fantastic that USA is startin to get their **** together, really developing and coaching some quality young hockey players. It's encouraging. Good year for the Yanks.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I'm glad to see more Americans in the draft choices this year. More American draftees means that there will be more Americans, hopefully, playing on the professional level.

That could only help the popularity of the sport in the US where people can cheer for local talent as opposed to having to cheer for those that are from places most Americans haven't been to.

I don't think this is any kind of sign of American talent being better or worse than Canadian or other. This is just good for trying to generate popularity in the states.

 

[PanniniClaus]

The best players can come from Mongolia or Brazil and I will not care. As long as the best players are playing in the NHL. Good draft year for the US- I am Canadian and do not care one bit. The real trend thisyear is the number of Europeans are down but top end Swedish players are way , way up. Many of the top ranked Europeans were Swedes which is a marked difference from the turn of the century until this year. Good for them. I am a big fan of Swedes.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Only to nationalistic jackasses does this matter.

 

[MN_Gopher]

The thing about the miracle victory was not that a mass of Americans were going to join the NHL that next year. Not like WWII. But it made alot of teenagers and soon to be parents see the game in a different way. We are now 27 years later and in the last seven years look at the draft picks. It was a big influence on the game. What it did in Minnesota, was make people realize that the NHL was the new goal. Players like John Mayasich and the lot of the 60 gold medall team i think, did not dream of the NHL. Now it it the dream.

The u18 team in a huge influence of that. They do not bring in tons of talent from MN. White, Wheeler, Okposo, Fischer were all good enough but some wanted to play one more year of high school. So that program is expanded by great deals.

The growth of the NCAA is a huge thing. While its not all americans, Heatley, Towes, Vanek its still good for student support and getting more college kids to see the game and take interest.

Still Canada will always stay ahead of the USA. Or at least for the next 20 years easily. its just too deep. 20% change is a huge number. USA would have to doule them them up in the draft to change those numbers. To ensure enough guys are making it. You have to look at the people allready there.

As far as top for top talent. There is only one Crosby. Everyone else in the NHL is catchable.

 

[Genghis Keon]

I don't think the US will ever surpass Canada, at least in terms of dominating the sport (or at least the NHL) like Canada has dominated America: like I don't see Canada being thrilled with a draft where 80% more Americans were picked in the first round or Canada's top players being well down the scoring list and well off the top vote getters in the Awards. However, I do see more parity, where the US may be the top hockey nation, but it will be more as how Brazil is (arguably at least) the top soccer nation, though Italy won the World Cup and is #1 in the Fifa rankings.

At the top of the food chain, it's hard to dominate and Canada will always churn out Lecavaliers and Thorntons and Luongos and Brodeurs and Crosbys and Sakics and Spezzas and Heatleys and Getzlafs and Neidermayers and Prongers and Phaneufs and Webers and Bouwmeesters, etc., etc., etc., so it's going to be hard, and damn near impossible, to definitively surpass the top end Canada has and will continue to put up. But, at least theoretically, the US can eventually churn out and continue to churn out their own Lecavaliers and Thorntons and... and some of the US' top talent might slightly outdo Canada's top talent and they might churn out more numbers, but I still think it'll be a soccer type scenario, where even if the US is number one, it's still always going to be a fight for that #1 ranking and anything can happen in any given year.

 

[Dying Alive]

With all due respect, some o you Yanks trying to pull the "Canadian insecurities" card.. unless you've lived in Canada - doesn't matter where because the intensity and passion for the game is equal pretty much wherever you go - let's get to the bottom line... Its in the flesh and blood up here don't kid yourself.. no matter what you're ethnicity or background, a little piece of it is implanted into virtually every person, whether they like the game or not. I highly doubt Americans can lay the same claim. You guys simply won't and don't understand unless you live up here. I consider myself a "hardcore" fan along with a ton of other buddies who all have considerable amounts of hockey knowledge.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that it doesn't really address my statement beyond being more Canadian nationalist rah-rah stuff that gets repeated ad nauseum around here. It comes off as sounding like, "You're not Canadian, so you'll never understand true love of the game or be as big a fan as we are." Frankly, that's a load of crap. Being the biggest fans of something per capita doesn't give you exclusive claim to it, nor does it make you all individually better fans than those of us in the US, or Europe, or anywhere else. I happen to think that those of us here in Pittsburgh are the best and most knowledgeable football fan base in the world, that doesn't mean that there can't be extremely loyal and knowledgeable fans elsewhere, even in other countries. And I wouldn't look down my nose at a new and untapped market who wanted their own NFL franchise. I would see it as being good for the game.

This is where the disconnect comes in for me between hockey and football. The NFL is a juggernaut in the largest economy in the world filled with sports fanatics. Owning a franchise is basically a license to print money. The league rakes in an unbelievable amount of money. Meanwhile, hockey is still a niche sport in the US, but it is growing. Admittedly it will probably never reach the popularity levels of the NFL, but it can become quite popular, and it can bring in a lot of money for the league while doing it, while at the same time bringing in new fans and exposing young kids to the game. How is any of this a bad thing? Yet it seems like the Canadian media would rather take every chance possible to insult and belittle American hockey markets. Why? Because they're in the US instead of Canada? Because it takes a while to build a fan base from scratch? I don't get it.

Not many people (you could say "casual fans") really give a **** about any sort of US developement program. It's more of an irritation up here because certain markets really don't appreciate the sport, the players and the skill that we grow and learn to appreciate. It's different, hard to explain. But no one worries about the US trying to take over hockey on this continent. It will forever be perfected, masterminded and created up here in Canada. Too many good players. With all this said, I think it's fantastic that USA is startin to get their **** together, really developing and coaching some quality young hockey players. It's encouraging. Good year for the Yanks.

Well, the bolded part is kind of what I was saying. Why would new areas learning hockey be an irritation? As someone who loves the game, why wouldn't you want it to be exposed to as many new people as possible in as many new places as possible? So what if it takes a decade or so to catch on? It takes a while to build a new fan base. Why take that attitude that if someone doesn't embrace hockey immediately, it should be hoarded away by those who already love it?

I don't know. I just don't see the point of this, "Canada vs. US" crap. Why does it matter where teams are located or where the players were born if the league can grow and thrive?

 

[mmfs*]

You're not allowed to call us Yanks so, yeaaah, you're not European.

 

[BruinsBtn]

a lot of people here overemphasize the importance of population in national athletic prowess. Coaching and training are a far bigger piece of the puzzle. Look at Argentina -- a country with a slightly larger population than Canada. They're the number one ranked soccer country in the world right now. They've won 2 world cups and the last two U20 world cups. They won the gold medal in the recent Olympics and have won several world championships in volleyball. Those are the three most popular sports in the world and they've won at them all. Serbia is another example.

The US has done well recently because the USNDP works, not because they have a large population.