GDT: #3: Sharks 8 at FLYERS 2, Tuesday, Oct. 9, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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On top of the stupidity of thinking these players need to be switched, but the D trash are great, ITS BEEN TWO GAMES. :laugh:

Making a change to lines that have a long history of working well, based on a two game sample size, is idiotic.

23 games and half a season?
And G - Couts and Voracek worked just as well and have a longer history of playing together.

That's Jeff for you. Pretty sure our coach thinks AMac is our second best defenseman (after Provorov) - he and Provy are the only two he won't healthy scratch

ES TOI:
Provorov 18:57
Ghost 18:04
AMac 15:01
Sanheim 14:55
Hagg 14:10
Gudas 14:10
Folin 12:53

AMac's other minutes are on the PK, 3:23, where they have let to allow a goal with him on the ice. He has the lowest xGA/60 of all D-men on the PK.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Who are you thinking of? Which vets are you wanting to call out

I was being sarcastic, someone was whining that Hakstol won't criticize his "favorite" veterans.
Just pointing out that Voracek has the worst advanced stats of any player, so he should be "called out" as a terrible veteran.
 

bennysflyers16

Registered User
Jan 26, 2004
84,268
62,214
I was being sarcastic, someone was whining that Hakstol won't criticize his "favorite" veterans.
Just pointing out that Voracek has the worst advanced stats of any player, so he should be "called out" as a terrible veteran.

He should be called out, your boy promoted him.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
3,152
NJ
23 games and half a season?
And G - Couts and Voracek worked just as well and have a longer history of playing together.



ES TOI:
Provorov 18:57
Ghost 18:04
AMac 15:01
Sanheim 14:55
Hagg 14:10
Gudas 14:10
Folin 12:53

AMac's other minutes are on the PK, 3:23, where they have let to allow a goal with him on the ice. He has the lowest xGA/60 of all D-men on the PK.

I have two eyes and those eyes tell me AMac stinks. They also tell me that when we put him on waivers, no one wanted him for even half his salary so I guess other GMs see something your stats do not.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Well, Nolan's line has been a problem. No rational person is freaking out about it or anything. It's only 2 games. TK could help.

Dude, we know Hak has blinders for his pet players, like AMac. But he's back to scratching Folin after his egregiously stupid move of sitting Gudas on Saturday night. If he actually played Folin vs SJS, I'd care.

Hak rarely (never?) buries veteran players publicly. Just because he said Folin was solid (lol) doesn't mean much. Let his ice time going forward be the judge of how Hak actually views him.
Folins out? Where'd you see that?

And I don't agree that Patricks line has been a problem. They obviously haven't played great, but a "problem"? It's not as if they're out there causing goals against, like the real problems on the roster have been. Overall, they've been mostly invisible, which is preferable over "actively detrimental".

My point is, of all the things for him to panic change after two games, this isn't the one that needs it. Certainly not enough to negatively effect the top line in order to make the change. It's just more proof of him never blaming his pets for anything and constantly f***ing with things that don't need to be played with.
 
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sa cyred

Running Data Models
Sep 11, 2007
20,841
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Folins out? Where'd you see that?

And I don't agree that Patricks line has been a problem. They obviously haven't played great, but a "problem"? It's not as if they're out there causing goals against, like the real problems on the roster have been. Overall, they've been mostly invisible, which is preferable over "actively detrimental".

My point is, of all the things for him to panic change after two games, this isn't the one that needs it. Certainly not enough to negatively effect the top line in order to make the change. It's just more proof of him never blaming his pets for anything and constantly ****ing with things that don't need to be played with.

Yea. I literally just read it but twitter did.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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I have two eyes and those eyes tell me AMac stinks. They also tell me that when we put him on waivers, no one wanted him for even half his salary so I guess other GMs see something your stats do not.

We have no idea, since we don't know if any trade offers were made.
For one thing, Hextall may have not been interested, the salary is sunk costs and he doesn't need the cap room the next two years.

Corsica had MacDonald ranked 128 among defenseman last year, so others don't think he's "trash."
He's the kind of veteran defensemen you find on practically every playoff team, Ron Hainsey, Dion Phaneuf, Dan Girardi, Dan Hamhuis, Andy Greene, etc.
Most don't look good on advanced stats, but coaches all around the league find them PT.
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,192
Folins out? Where'd you see that?



And I don't agree that Patricks line has been a problem. They obviously haven't played great, but a "problem"? It's not as if they're out there causing goals against, like the real problems on the roster have been. Overall, they've been mostly invisible, which is preferable over "actively detrimental".

My point is, of all the things for him to panic change after two games, this isn't the one that needs it. Certainly not enough to negatively effect the top line in order to make the change. It's just more proof of him never blaming his pets for anything and constantly ****ing with things that don't need to be played with.

I don't know why you see it as a panic change. Nolan is getting a very quality winger. A more dynamic style of player. They aren't giving him Weise or some crap. Nolan looks asleep. TK's skating, motor, and overall offensive killer instinct might be what helps spark him.

Categorize Nolan's line as a problem or just not good. It's semantics. They performed poorly.

5v5 CF Rel vs Vegas
Oskar... -25%
Jake... -17%
Nolan... -15%

5v5 CF Rel vs Avs
Jake... -35%
Nolan... -23%
Oskar... -21%
 

Adam Warlock

Registered User
Apr 15, 2006
6,802
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I think people forget how good the G/Coots/Voracek line was last year. It was probably the most dominant line the Flyers have had since LOD.

I am not sure how the 2nd and 3rd line will fare...but I am excited to see those 3 together again.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania


Well thank f*** for that at least.

I don't know why you see it as a panic change. Nolan is getting a very quality winger. A more dynamic style of player. They aren't giving him Weise or some crap. Nolan looks asleep. TK's skating, motor, and overall offensive killer instinct might be what helps spark him.

Categorize Nolan's line as a problem or just not good. It's semantics. They performed poorly.

5v5 CF Rel vs Vegas
Oskar... -25%
Jake... -17%
Nolan... -15%

5v5 CF Rel vs Avs
Jake... -35%
Nolan... -23%
Oskar... -21%

I see it as a panic move because how small of a sample size the move is being based off of. This isn't something that was carefully considered and thought out... this was made based on two games that could simply be a slow start instead of a line problem. So changing it, and weakening the top line by taking away their perfect fit, doesn't make much sense to me.
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,654
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Carinthia, AUT
Giroux and Voracek have natural chemistry and when healthy and on their game are one of the best pairings in hockey. I'm okay with reuniting them.

T.K. may provide a better fit on the speedy Patrick line anyway.
All in all that's a minor tweak in my eyes.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
What perfect fit? Half a season with TK posting an unsustainable shot %.
In 2012 Voracek shot 17% for 48 games, we know that was never repeated.

G - C - Voracek was just as good as G - C - TK last season, so you lose nothing off the first line.
Voracek has been playing horrible with Lindblom and Patrick, maybe just a fluke, but why not shake things up?

How bad has Voracek played? Let's just say he's well below VdV's worst!!!
Corsi 28%, SCF/SCA 6/22; HCF/HCA 0/10
In comparison, some whipping dogs:
Lehtera: Corsi 46.43%, SCF/SCA 6/7; HCF/HCA 4/1
Simmonds: Corsi 58.54%, SCF/SCA 10/10; HCF/HCA 3/2

Vorobyev: Corsi 58.33%, SCF/SCA 12/17; HCF/HCA 5/7 [makes rookie mistakes but also makes things happen!]

The defense has been a group effort when it comes to stinking out the joint:
Folin: Corsi 50%, SCF/SCA 7/6; HCF/HCA 3/4
Hagg: Corsi 46.81%, SCF/SCA 10/17; HCF/HCA 2/5
MacDonald: Corsi 40.68%; SCF/SCA 12/23; HCF/HCA 2/8
Ghost: Corsi 41.51%, SCF/SCA 10/17; HCF/HCA 2/4
Provorov: Corsi 44.07%, SCF/SCA 11/21; HCF/HCA 3/7

Sanheim: Corsi 52.83%, SCF/SCA 11/12; HCF/HCA 6/6
 
Last edited:

Oskar Man

Social Assassin
Nov 30, 2010
2,808
6,305
Hak is an ignoramus for the Folin start. The guy should only get playing time if there's an injury.

Personnel decisions aside, I'm going to hold off on player judgements until the 10 game mark. There's some guys/lines that don't look great but it's only been 2 games thus far.
 

Oskar Man

Social Assassin
Nov 30, 2010
2,808
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The best lineup the Flyers could put on the ice tomorrow is:

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Patrick-Konency
Weal-Vorobyev-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-NAK

Provorov-Ghost
Sanheim-Gudas
Hagg-Myers

So Myers is still with the team as a healthy scratch?
 

wuf

Registered User
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Aug 16, 2012
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326
Philadelphia, PA
We have no idea, since we don't know if any trade offers were made.
For one thing, Hextall may have not been interested, the salary is sunk costs and he doesn't need the cap room the next two years.

Corsica had MacDonald ranked 128 among defenseman last year, so others don't think he's "trash."
He's the kind of veteran defensemen you find on practically every playoff team, Ron Hainsey, Dion Phaneuf, Dan Girardi, Dan Hamhuis, Andy Greene, etc.
Most don't look good on advanced stats, but coaches all around the league find them PT.

Advanced stats or not, MacDonald can't make decent passes, he can't take good passes, he can't skate well and he can't hit well. I sincerely struggle to find anything that he does well. His go-to move is to blindly throw the puck where he doesn't seem someone at that exact moment.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
How bad has Voracek played? Let's just say he's well below VdV's worst!!!

giphy.gif


For a guy who ignores years of data and twists stats every which way, you are aware of what a 2 game sample size is, yes? He could have a game with 80% everything next and balance it out. That happens. But yes, VandeVelde, yes. A good coach would sit Voracek. Yes.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,494
42,218
So Myers is still with the team as a healthy scratch?

No, but Hextall could call him up by putting JVR on IR. And call up by NAK by demoting Weise.

I'm not knocking Oskar and I'm glad he's a fixture on this team at age 22, but there's an argument that NAK could be a better NHL player than him. And soon.
 

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