2nd pairing, RHD

[Marshall]

After mentioning Brandon Montour on another thread I was wondering who HFCaps would have an eye on as far as a 2nd pairing RHD - the spot that seems to need an upgrade the most - assuming Kempny or one of the kids plays with Carlson.

Presumably, the new D would partner with Orlov - who would be on your (reasonable) list of dmen to inquire about?

I've backed off Montour a bit, just because I'm not sure he'd fit with Orlov as a pairing. Tanev from Vancouver would seem like a fit, but is he affordable?

Click to read more...

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Obviously there's the popular Pietrangelo option, but that would require too much reworking of the roster, IMO.

We could do a lot worse than Hamonic, but would he want to leave western Canada?

I don't think Barrie or Vatanen fits the profile of the type of player you want to pair with Orlov.

I do like the Tanev suggestion, and I suspect he'd be sneaky affordable.

Parayko and Manson would be absolutely perfect, but almost no chance either one is attainable. Jason Demers would be a great trade option if the Yotes are unable to sign Hall.

My favorite is still TJ Brodie. He's not a RHD, but he has significant experience playing the RD. I think he'd slot in somewhere between Pietrangelo and Tanev in terms of AAV.

The sleeper (and potentially super bargain) option would be Bufflin, assuming the grievance is resolved and the ankle passes muster.

 

[Langway]

Braun could be a value stopgap option. Not ideal but who knows what sort of cap room they'll have, largely depending on whether they prioritize keeping Holtby or Dillon or not. The eventual Ovechkin & Vrana extensions also loom.

They do need more of a Niskanen replacement than a puck-rusher. The Caps did have interest in Tanev when he turned pro IIRC but I'd be a bit concerned that he's never really managed to play a full season (and is 30). I'd at least contemplate Ceci on a very short contract or Ristolainen if they could be had on workable terms. Both are still fairly young enough that maybe Reirden and the presence of a deep winning team could manage more confidence and a better fit to play to their strengths and keep it simple. Montour's skating could make him an interesting project at least. I'm not sure there's an ideal realistic fit for that spot so it may need to be more of an under the radar reclamation project type.

 

[twabby]

Nick Jensen was finally settling in before COVID and I really want to see how he handles this postseason before saying the 2RD job isn’t his. If he’s able to play well I think there are better places to look for upgrades on the roster, especially since it looks like the cap is going to stay flat for a few years.

 

[txpd]

Jensen is the guy. How much cap hit is a guy like Brody going to take? At least another player off the roster. The idea was to stretch the available cap space with a $2.5m top 4 d. I also don't think there is any confidence that Kempny or a kid is ready for Carlson's level of EVTOI. We can hope but Jensen's metrics show him the best penalty killer on the defense. His even strength play was on the rise. I am confident that their plan going forward is to make that work. The only alternative would be to try another player in Jensen's price bracket. Not some known star commodity

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

My only worry is we might be going cheap on D and goalie at the same time.
We invested a lot of draft capital in those positions so this might be the payoff having young cheap talent.

 

[txpd]

My only worry is we might be going cheap on D and goalie at the same time.
We invested a lot of draft capital in those positions so this might be the payoff having young cheap talent.

An inexperienced defense is dangerous. 2 rookies on defense and a baby goalie is asking for trouble. I worry more about Fever with Samsonov than Jensen or Kempny

 

[Raikkonen]

Jensen isnt 2RD.

Also I think they will make a room either by not signing Dillon or by moving one other guy. Depending on their play in playoffs perhaps.

If everyone is kept I guess they will try to make Kempny-Carlson work.

Then its Orlov-Dillon and Siege/Fever-Jensen.

Having ED next summer they would be ok keeping one redundant D to lose one in ED.

We dont really know if Dillon should stay and with current circumstances very well could not get that knowledge at all.

There are question marks with most of Caps D so Id sign new guy. If all youngsters and both Kempny and Jensen will show better results next season that willbe a nice problem to have.

But what are the actual odds of that? Slim. Someone will fail most probably. Jensen at 2RD is prime candidate.

 

[txpd]

Jensen isnt 2RD.

Also I think they will make a room either by not signing Dillon or by moving one other guy. Depending on their play in playoffs perhaps.

If everyone is kept I guess they will try to make Kempny-Carlson work.

Then its Orlov-Dillon and Siege/Fever-Jensen.

Having ED next summer they would be ok keeping one redundant D to lose one in ED.

We dont really know if Dillon should stay and with current circumstances very well could not get that knowledge at all.

There are question marks with most of Caps D so Id sign new guy. If all youngsters and both Kempny and Jensen will show better results next season that willbe a nice problem to have.

But what are the actual odds of that? Slim. Someone will fail most probably. Jensen at 2RD is prime candidate.

The Caps cant afford a legit top 4 d. With the league cap situation as it is. They need Jensen and Kempny to work out. Jensen appears to be the best pk defenseman they have and the pk is among the league leaders. Dillon probably isn't staying either for budget reasons. If Kempny just cant play anymore, then maybe but I think it unlikely Fishman can make that fit.

Next season the Caps are going to have to squeeze.
Fever/Carlson
Orlov/Jensen
Seigenthaler/pick a kid-Kempny

Put them in front of a kid goaltender and hold on to your butts.

Who is the defenseman coach? Orpik or Arniel?

 

[Marshall]

With McMichael, Alexeyev, Fever, and Copley on the big club with Siegenthaler and Sprong signed for @ $1,000,000 each - that's a full roster. That is also scary young and not a contender. It also has $5 mil or so of cap room.

Personally I'd prefer a veteran split-starter (there could be a whole thread on that, honestly) like Dell, Khudobin or someone similar, maybe someone you could get for $2 or 2.5 mil. Throw in the fact that a lot of UFAs are going to be feeling a squeeze next year, and I think the Caps could probably afford to bring in a #4/#5 on d OR a 3rd liner up front and not go over the cap.

Jensen playing well certainly would be a fortuitous outcome.

 

[tenken00]

With McMichael, Alexeyev, Fever, and Copley on the big club with Siegenthaler and Sprong signed for @ $1,000,000 each - that's a full roster. That is also scary young and not a contender. It also has $10 mil or so of cap room.

Personally I'd prefer a veteran split-starter (there could be a whole thread on that, honestly) like Dell, Khudobin or someone similar, maybe someone you could get for $2 or 2.5 mil. Throw in the fact that a lot of UFAs are going to be feeling a squeeze next year, and I think the Caps could probably afford to bring in a #4/#5 on d and a 3rd liner up front and not go over the cap.

Jensen playing well certainly would be a fortuitous outcome.

It will all depend on Jensen when the restart happens. He was playing well next to Orlov before the shutdown, but is it because he is finally turning the corner in Washington or just small sample size? It's pretty much wait and see.

Otherwise, it seems like the RD UFA list is pretty deep this upcoming offseason (for RD), and with it will come some factors that will make it highly unusual:

1) Cap space availability - since the salary cap is no way going up next year or possibly the next few years. It's going to be a lot of players fighting over very limited dollars and cap space.

2) Shortened season next year - Who knows? Would teams be even willing to give out multiple year contracts worth full value if they know there is a possibility of less games next year?

3) Seattle Expansion draft next year - it's already pretty much here. Would players want to sign multiple years at depressed value with a team this offseason without trade protection?

I think a lot of these guys might want to just risk doing a team-friendly showme contract for a year or two and hope to capitalize later when things start to normalize again.

 

[Marshall]

Braun, Rutta, Stone, Holzer...a few other lower-cost options.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I think it definitely depends on Jensen's play. If he continues where he left off, he's an efficient enough 2RD. Gudas comments make it seem as if he's dead set on moving to a new organization next season. There's going to be a hole at RD that needs to be filled whether that's the 2nd or 3rd pairing and there's no true RHD with NHL potential in the system that will sniff the NHL anytime soon. They can always shift Fever or Siegs to their off side if need be but I'd rather see Fever playing the left side

 

[txpd]

I think it definitely depends on Jensen's play. If he continues where he left off, he's an efficient enough 2RD. Gudas comments make it seem as if he's dead set on moving to a new organization next season. There's going to be a hole at RD that needs to be filled whether that's the 2nd or 3rd pairing and there's no true RHD with NHL potential in the system that will sniff the NHL anytime soon. They can always shift Fever or Siegs to their off side if need be but I'd rather see Fever playing the left side

Gudas was always a one season place holder. His cap hit with Philly retaining cant to replicated in a new contract. He would make more than Jensen and Kempny. Fever is on the team next season. I expect the 3rd pair top be Seigenthaler and Fehevary. Unless by some miracle Dillon stays. Even with that I would expect Kempny to be moved to make room. So that young 3rd pair remains

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Gotta at least let Jensen sink or swim this postseason. I suspect the Caps already realize that they need an upgrade, but sure, let it play out.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Gudas was always a one season place holder. His cap hit with Philly retaining cant to replicated in a new contract. He would make more than Jensen and Kempny. Fever is on the team next season. I expect the 3rd pair top be Seigenthaler and Fehevary. Unless by some miracle Dillon stays. Even with that I would expect Kempny to be moved to make room. So that young 3rd pair remains

Regarding Gudas and his contract, I think that might have been the case at the start of the season when he came off a solid year in Philly, but he hasn't played anywhere close to that level since. He was even a healthy scratch for a few games at one point. With the RD UFA market being a little more saturated compared to other years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get paid close to what he's currently earning in Washington with retention. Thats neither here nor there because the probability of him coming back is slim to none.

I agree Fever is in Washington next season but I don't think they force a young third pairing. They're going to need to bring in another "veteran" or more experienced player IMO. There's nothing but young guns in Hershey and the Lewington experiment at the beginning of this season didn't go great to put it lightly. They need another body that can rotate with Fever/Siegs if need be.

Will be an interesting offseason. Caps could potentially have a few new guys manning the blueline next season.

 

[tenken00]

Let's see if switching from Reid Cashman to Scott Arniel will have an impact on defensive play this restart.

Scotty's PK unit has looked real good this year, maybe he could work wonders with an extra player on the ice. I think it'll benefit certain players at least.

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot that Cashman is staying here until the season is officially over.

 

[txpd]

Regarding Gudas and his contract, I think that might have been the case at the start of the season when he came off a solid year in Philly, but he hasn't played anywhere close to that level since. He was even a healthy scratch for a few games at one point. With the RD UFA market being a little more saturated compared to other years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get paid close to what he's currently earning in Washington with retention. Thats neither here nor there because the probability of him coming back is slim to none.

I agree Fever is in Washington next season but I don't think they force a young third pairing. They're going to need to bring in another "veteran" or more experienced player IMO. There's nothing but young guns in Hershey and the Lewington experiment at the beginning of this season didn't go great to put it lightly. They need another body that can rotate with Fever/Siegs if need be.

Will be an interesting offseason. Caps could potentially have a few new guys manning the blueline next season.

A veteran 7d. Yes. Someone signed as a spare almost always needs to be a veteran. That doesn't mean that Seigenthaler/Fehervary wont be the primary 3rd pair

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Definitely agree on wait and see. I think we should consider the restart and especially next year as a reset. And it will be league wide.

Gudas is gone and even he knows it. The returning D and young D will all present in evolved states - good and bad. I think it's reasonable to try any that appear to have stepped up and that could be good for cap space. Good time maybe to go young if they look ready with a new D coach and refreshed system (no slingshot). Someone could break out.

All teams are facing the reset, so if the young guys stumble it might be easy to get some more experienced D from other teams who are in a bind, or players who end up passed over because of other team's cap issues. GMBM certainly knows how to pick hidden gems.

 

[txpd]

Gotta at least let Jensen sink or swim this postseason. I suspect the Caps already realize that they need an upgrade, but sure, let it play out.

I think the Jensen they had the last 15 games was the Jensen they wanted. Their decision there is complicated by the situation with Kempny. They have to hope at least one of them is up to their role.

 

[hb12xchamps]

A veteran 7d. Yes. Someone signed as a spare almost always needs to be a veteran. That doesn't mean that Seigenthaler/Fehervary wont be the primary 3rd pair

I would be very worried at a Siegenthaler/Fehervary pairing. Siegenthaler didn’t have a great year. His PK ability is solid but he absolutely needs to bring a more physical game. I get the Fever hype, but the kid has 6 NHL games under his belt. Having two inexperienced players together would be a nightmare for the coaching staff when trying to match lines and zone starts.

 

[Raikkonen]

Siege-Carlson
Orlov-Jensen
Fever-Kempny

is your most probable lineup in January, by my estimation

PS: add another year and its Jensen as 3RD and Orlov with AA

 

[txpd]

I would be very worried at a Siegenthaler/Fehervary pairing. Siegenthaler didn’t have a great year. His PK ability is solid but he absolutely needs to bring a more physical game. I get the Fever hype, but the kid has 6 NHL games under his belt. Having two inexperienced players together would be a nightmare for the coaching staff when trying to match lines and zone starts.

I like veterans on defense and think that many expect young defensemen to just be too good too soon. I would not want to see either Seigenthaler or Fehervary penciled into the top 4 in order to put a veteran on each pair. But the salary cap is a thing that has to be dealt with.

Next season will be Siegenthaler's 3rd. He will have 2 playoffs under his belt. He is more than a rookie. That provides a little more stability. My view is that the Caps get a Chorney like character at or near the league minimum and play the 2 young guys most of the time. They can and probably will add a legit veteran defenseman at the deadline. I think that is how they make it work.

They traded Niskanen for cap management. Not because of his quality of play or place in the dressing room. They didn't want to trade him. If the Caps spend anymore real money on a defenseman, they could have just kept Niskanen

 

[hb12xchamps]

I like veterans on defense and think that many expect young defensemen to just be too good too soon. I would not want to see either Seigenthaler or Fehervary penciled into the top 4 in order to put a veteran on each pair. But the salary cap is a thing that has to be dealt with.

Next season will be Siegenthaler's 3rd. He will have 2 playoffs under his belt. He is more than a rookie. That provides a little more stability. My view is that the Caps get a Chorney like character at or near the league minimum and play the 2 young guys most of the time. They can and probably will add a legit veteran defenseman at the deadline. I think that is how they make it work.

Siegenthaler still only has 90 games played and was part of the healthy scratch rotation when the season ended. I really don't think he's anything more than a third pairing guy at this point, which is fine. But I'd rather have Fehervary and Dillon over Siegenthaler at this point. Fehervary has better upside and Dillon's game is at best what Siegenthaler could become if he plays more physical.

They traded Niskanen for cap management. Not because of his quality of play or place in the dressing room. They didn't want to trade him. If the Caps spend anymore real money on a defenseman, they could have just kept Niskanen

That's not entirely true. Niskanen was very solid as a Cap, but he didn't play very well the year before he was traded. He was seen as a depreciating asset signed to a few more seasons. I can't agree with you that it was primarily just a cap management move. Cap management was a big part it in, but we can't sit here and say Niskanen's play didn't fall off.

 

[txpd]

Siegenthaler still only has 90 games played and was part of the healthy scratch rotation when the season ended. I really don't think he's anything more than a third pairing guy at this point, which is fine. But I'd rather have Fehervary and Dillon over Siegenthaler at this point. Fehervary has better upside and Dillon's game is at best what Siegenthaler could become if he plays more physical.


That's not entirely true. Niskanen was very solid as a Cap, but he didn't play very well the year before he was traded. He was seen as a depreciating asset signed to a few more seasons. I can't agree with you that it was primarily just a cap management move. Cap management was a big part it in, but we can't sit here and say Niskanen's play didn't fall off.

Siegenthaler is a 3rd pair pk specialist that would be playing on the 3rd pair. If Fehervary is going to play, its next to him, unless Kempny stinks it up and they cant replace him.

We all know Niskanen and Orlov struggled last season. I said this before and will repeat it. Niskanen was either beaten down by the cup run and hadn't recovered yet or the damage he took was going to permanently take away from his game. I said that the Caps were in a position to know which it was because they had all the medical info. Clearly Niskanen has jumped all the way back because he has provided foundation for the Flyers resurgence. I cant believe that MacLellan didn't know that would happen. Based on that, I judge they traded him for salary cap reasons.

Take Jensen out and replace him with Niskanen and the Caps defense is strong. It would have resulted in losing at least one of Panik or Hagelin as well.

Edit: Yes, I would be worried about two young defensemen together. Even more worried with 2 young d in the lineup with a baby goalie behind them. I don't think the Caps have a choice.