2nd Cup affect Ovechkin's legacy/ all-time ranking?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Brucelenok, May 24, 2021.

  1. Ducks in a row Go Ducks Quack Quack

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    16,841
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    More championships will always improve someones legacy. How much better it actually makes the player is always up for debate.
     
  2. Iapyi Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Canadian Prairies
    Not sure how you live in the real world but you don't have to be so nasty on the internet.

    I've watched him play since before he was in the NHL.

    If he was the best power forward ever did you ever wonder why there are so many people who disagree with you?

    Did you ever think there is a valid reason for that?

    Did you ever think that this is not your decision to make and that your attempts of bullying others as to how they think is flat out the wrong way to communicate with other human beings?
     
  3. Randyne Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    89
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    There are zero bullying only concern about your browser or eyes, because there are already two pages of ignoring the fact that the answer to your comment "silly relying on stats" was given by posting video of his play. It turns out you don't like his stats and his play, so don't ask me who you are "hater" or "objective thinker". The answer is obvious.
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  4. Iapyi Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Canadian Prairies
    You are making no sense at all. I consider stats and style of play. I happen to prefer well-rounded complete 2 way 200' players. That is my right. You won't see me trying to force-feed how other people are supposed to think and judge and analyze players.

    Are you really worried about my browser and my eyes? Like really?

    Why are you so obsessed with my personal opinion?

    I clearly state my thoughts and I certainly don't try to dictate to others what they are supposed to think.
     
    evolutionbaby and hobochangba like this.
  5. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    8,475
    Likes Received:
    2,711
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    I have no problem ranking Oveckhin over both guys but this claim of the best “objective” peak outside of the top 4 is extremely dubious.

    Jagr, Lafleur, McDavid come to mind as pretty equal peaks and that’ s just of the top of my head.
     
    filinski77 likes this.
  6. Randyne Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    89
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    That's absolutely Ok. I prefer watching unstoppable tornado, hitting and scoring machine like many millions others.
    Hmm I thought your comment about "how silly is relying on stats" was exactly that thing. That's also absolutely Ok. Because no player with one of the best stats ever would achieve that without extraordinary play. And Ovechkin is that guy, that's why the video has been posted.
    Like I said I don't know you at all, you started ask me questions, making fun of posted viewership stats ignoring the video itself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  7. YippieKaey How you gonna do hockey like that?

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    74
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    It´s called the Hall of FAME after all.
     
  8. YippieKaey How you gonna do hockey like that?

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    74
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    Just curious, since you like complete 2-way players more. Are guys like Trottier and Fedorov better in your eyes than guys like Jagr and Gordie Howe? Lemieux? Even Gretzky?
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  9. Weztex Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    190
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    This thread isn't about Ovi making the Hall of Fame or not.
     
  10. Iapyi Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Canadian Prairies
    Who are you suggesting wasn't a complete 2 way player? Howe? You suggesting Fedorov was? I'm not clear what you're trying to ask.
     
  11. Iapyi Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Canadian Prairies
    You are making no sense at all. I consider stats and style of play. I happen to prefer well-rounded complete 2 way 200' players. That is my right. You won't see me trying to force-feed how other people are supposed to think and judge and analyze players.

    Are you really worried about my browser and my eyes? Like really?

    Why are you so obsessed with my personal opinion?

    I clearly state my thoughts and I certainly don't try to dictate to others what they are supposed to think.

    Why are you infatuated by some video?
     
  12. filinski77 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Completely see what you mean, but I didn't say that he objectively has the best outside of the big-4. I'm saying that only those 4 couldn't be argued. Whether you have Ovechkin's as the next best after that or not, no-one else has a clear-cut better peak (other than the big-4). In essence I'm agreeing that you could argue either side for guys like Lafleur and Jagr etc.
     
  13. YippieKaey How you gonna do hockey like that?

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    74
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    No im saying that Fedorov was a lot better two way player than for instance Jagr. Do you think Fedorov was a better player or had a better "legacy"?
     
    JasonRoseEh and hobochangba like this.
  14. Video Nasty Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    His legacy seems fairly set in stone. It's unclear how much it changes with another Cup.

    I suppose if he goes on another deep Cup run where he's the main driving force right around the time he's threatening and/or breaking 894, it would add a little extra sizzle to his career narrative.

    Ever since he scored 600 goals and beyond, there's been an evergrowing vocal crowd of fans who see him as the greatest goal scorer ever, whether or not he passes Gretzky.

    He was foolishly dinged for lack of playoff success before the Cup which he has had even less of since winning the Cup.

    More goals and more Cups is not going to vault him past the Big Four and the 6-8 other non-goalies who are ahead of him all time.

    However, his individual awards and whatever padding he does the rest of the way could make it interesting for future hockey historians who might cast a more objective eye when looking back and wonder why Crosby is universally more highly regarded.

    His case for inclusion inside the top 10 ever would be much easier to argue if he breaks the goals record and adds to his trophy cabinet of course.
     
    AlexBrovechkin8 and wetcoast like this.
  15. george14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    It's sad a post this bad was posted so soon.
     
    sanscosm likes this.
  16. MahomesforPresident Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    11,894
    Likes Received:
    5,303
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Executive Accountant & Heir to Dad's Fortune
    Location:
    Philly
    I'm not into cup counting.

    He dominated among his peers. Flashy. Exciting. Has the awards.
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  17. BlueAzN Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Occupation:
    HS Student =(
    Location:
    In South Carolina
    This guy gets it. Don’t worry mate, most people here are just stat lurkers.
     
  18. hobochangba Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    31
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Than Jagr, yes I do. Between the two I'd take Sergei anyday. Jagr is great. No argument there.
     
  19. Riddum Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    1,377
    Trophy Points:
    155
    SB Cash:
    $ 10,000
    Location:
    Montreal
    Jagr>Ovi

    Lol Fedorov can't sniff Jagr's jock.
     
    Dessloch and YippieKaey like this.
  20. 412 Others 5Cups beats 2Cups

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes Received:
    561
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Fan of Original 12 Team
    Location:
    Black + Gold = Pittsburgh
    If the historians are objective, it's hard to overlook Crosby having more career points while playing the equivalent of 2 less seasons. All while playing a position that does not allow 100% focus on offense.
     
    wetcoast likes this.
  21. filinski77 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    To be fair, it will also be hard to overlook that Ovechkin had 50% more goals in their careers, more Harts, 4.5x as many Rockets, and the title as the greatest goalscorer ever. Not trying to argue or get into anything here, but there's great arguments on both sides imo.

    I agree that wingers can focus more on offense than centers, but on the flip-side, centers are in a position (down the middle) where the puck touches their sticks more often which makes it easier to rack up points. I think those points offset eachother.
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  22. JackSlater Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    13,551
    Likes Received:
    6,128
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I don't think it matters barring some sort of historically good playoff performance. Ovechkin is what he is at this point. No team accomplishments are going to make a difference with how high he ranks historically.
     
  23. george14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    Even disregarding Cup, I don’t really see how he ranks above Sid. Certainly a better goal scorer but he produces at a much lower pace, not to mentions Sid is a Selke-caliber player. Produces better in the playoffs too.

    Ovi is in that 10-20 all time range IMO.
     
    Dessloch likes this.
  24. filinski77 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Arguments for Ovechkin:
    -> Best goalscorer in NHL history (and goalscoring is the single most important and hardest thing to do in hockey)
    -> Better peak between the 2
    -> Much better individual accomplishments and trophies (matters when you start looking at all-time rankings)
    -> Best playoff goalscorer of his generation

    Arguments for Crosby:
    -> Has been a higher quality player over the length of their total careers
    -> More team success
    -> Best playoff producer of his generation
    -> Better 2-way player over the length of their total careers

    Sid was nowhere near a Selke-Calibre player when he was at the top of his game. And even the last few years where he's taken a step back from an offensive side, he's still nowhere near the best defensive forwards in the league. He's great, but not one of the best. As far as playoffs go, both players have pretty similar decreases in their production when they get into the playoffs.

    I say this pretty often, but I can see the arguments to rank either player higher in an all-time sense, I just find it silly when people don't agree that it's either close or debatable.
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.
  25. MahomesforPresident Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    11,894
    Likes Received:
    5,303
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Executive Accountant & Heir to Dad's Fortune
    Location:
    Philly
    Seems a bit low for Ovi..
     
    JasonRoseEh likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"