Player Discussion Rasmus Ristolainen

[WeDislikeEich]

Give him an 8 year deal at 6.5 if that will do it. Or 9 years at 7. If that won't do it then we are back to a bridge deal 4 years at 4.25.........

They are not allowed to give a deal longer than 8 years. The new CBA doesn't allow those super long deals anymore.

I agree though. Give an 8 year deal, or just do a bridge deal.

Click to read more...

 

[Murky]

I actually think this would be the ceiling, and one Murray does not want to hit.

Curious. Do you think Jones is better than Risto, or do you think he will be better?

In my opinion first is not true and the latter is not out of the question, although I would bet against it.

So why would Risto want to take a worse deal? Team discount? Sure. But in my opinion that is quite a discount obviously depending on term.

Now, I am not a Buffalo fan, but I can relate to wanting to lock players in good contracts. However I don't think that is a realistic ceiling for Risto. One that Murray and fans would want? Sure. But that is a different thing.

Now entertain a thought that Risto would sit out - as I might were I him if I was offered 5.4 for 6. What would be the ramifications? Are they worth the less than 1M in cap space? I would not think so but again my opinion is irrelevant and I am not even a Buffalo fan. But just think about it and give me your thoughts - is it worth it?

Anyway. Just my opinions.

 

[Heraldic]

Curious. Do you think Jones is better than Risto, or do you think he will be better?

In my opinion first is not true and the latter is not out of the question, although I would bet against it.

So why would Risto want to take a worse deal? Team discount? Sure. But in my opinion that is quite a discount obviously depending on term.

Now, I am not a Buffalo fan, but I can relate to wanting to lock players in good contracts. However I don't think that is a realistic ceiling for Risto. One that Murray and fans would want? Sure. But that is a different thing.

Now entertain a thought that Risto would sit out - as I might were I him if I was offered 5.4 for 6. What would be the ramifications? Are they worth the less than 1M in cap space? I would not think so but again my opinion is irrelevant and I am not even a Buffalo fan. But just think about it and give me your thoughts - is it worth it?

Anyway. Just my opinions.

Well, I think that Barkov is a better player than Nugent-Hopkins or Brandon Saad, yet he accepted a cheaper deal. I also think that Filip Forsberg is a better winger than Jordan Eberle. This, of course, given the time of their second contracts. I also think that Hamilton is not a better player than Morgan Rielly, yet he got a clearly more valuable contract.

Jones has more games under his belt. Jones has been more consistent, yet his development path is not as uptrending as Risto's. I do prefer Risto between them, but they have a lot of similarities, and are pretty comparable. Risto also has one RFA year more.

You mean by "sitting out" sitting the whole season or just the start of it? If the first, I highly doubt that is happening - for multiple of reasons. And I absolutely would lose handful of games from Risto this season, if it means about 1 million more cap space for the next +5 seasons.

 

[Murky]

Well, I think that Barkov is a better player than Nugent-Hopkins or Brandon Saad, yet he accepted a cheaper deal. I also think that Filip Forsberg is a better winger than Jordan Eberle. This, of course, given the time of their second contracts. I also think that Hamilton is not a better player than Morgan Rielly, yet he got a clearly more valuable contract.

Jones has more games under his belt. Jones has been more consistent, yet his development path is not as uptrending as Risto's. I do prefer Risto between them, but they have a lot of similarities, and are pretty comparable. Risto also has one RFA year more.

You mean by "sitting out" sitting the whole season or just the start of it? If the first, I highly doubt that is happening - for multiple of reasons. And I absolutely would lose handful of games from Risto this season, if it means about 1 million more cap space for the next +5 seasons.

Thanks for a quality response. Good points although I apparently rate Risto higher than you do.

By sitting out I meant more like sitting out until things resolve unfavourably rather than a few games. A few games would of course be worth 1M in cap space, but there is a larger picture here from a risk management perspective in my opinion. Playing hardball with the centerpiece of the team such as projected and current #1 D for a few hundred thousands could pay off, as you describe. It could also backfire in a very bad way if things escalate.

So far Risto seems to be playing nice, which means little since he hasn't signed. Murray's recent comment is not quite as nice, while the same fact of no contract still applies to him as much. This lends to all kinds of speculation, which of course is just that and nothing more. Still, I guess what I am trying to say is, I would think it is starting to look a bit worrisome.

 

[JOVIS*]

In some respects it doesn't even matter if Ristolainin is better than for instance, Jones (altho i happen to think hes not). At the end of the day The team has almost all.of the leverage, and for sveral more years too. TM said on WGR that he is not 'lowballing' Risto and I believe him. Lowballing is a relative term though and many on this forum clearly think 4.5 is 'lowball'. The Sabres are bidding against themselves if they go much higher. GMTM also said they're very open to a bridge deal now. The CBA allows teams to own a player for 7 years. Ristolainen has so many years of RFA left that he isn't even close to having arbitration rights. There is no reason for the Sabres to cave and pay him big, that totally undermines the CBA and would be dumb from a team building perspective. A guy like eichel or McDavid or Ekblad in FL I see as a bit different. A truly generational type talent you want to lock up as long as possible and make as happy as possible. Ristolainen is (imo ofc) merely good, on a team withough much defensive depth.

 

[Aladyyn]

Does the team have all the leverage though. Murray has gone out and said the goal is to make the playoffs this year. If Risto misses 15 games because of a contract, that's not happening and TM is going to take the heat. It's not that black and white

 

[JOVIS*]

Does the team have all the leverage though. Murray has gone out and said the goal is to make the playoffs this year. If Risto misses 15 games because of a contract, that's not happening and TM is going to take the heat. It's not that black and white

Agreed... but whatever backlash comes from a slow start or Risto-anxiety will presumably be short term... and an extra 6-8 year contract hit would hurt the team exponentially more. They don't have ALL the leverage for sure...just depends how much PR damage they're willing to take the longer it may or may not go

 

[Der Jaeger]

If you listened Murray's latest on WGR, you noticed how he emphasized having depth (and it wasn't the first time he has done that).

If you want to create depth, you need to avoid giving bad contracts AND you need to squeeze as much as possible out of RFA years. The problem is not that we're not able to sign Jack/Sam. The problem is, that if we just sign them whatever they ever want, without using the leverage of RFA years, we are really soon under the situation where we have no cap space for depth.

If we give Ekblad money to Risto, for example, there is absolutely no way of asking Eichel/Reinhart to accept something other than top money. But if you get at least one big gun under at least somehow team friendly contract, you will have easier time getting the others. Just like Yzerman had Hedman after Stamkos.

And regarding Risto's RFA years, yes, he has 5 RFA years left (his first year didn't count as an accrued season).

Thanks on the RFA years.

I get the desire to create depth. Getting Risto to sign for $5.5M vs. $6M (or even $6.5M) doesn't do anything for Eichel/Reinhart. Nor does it do much to create depth.

You create depth by spending money on centers and defensemen, then rotating ELC and RFA wingers into and out of the line-up as they come up and then price out of the roster. If you're giving out big deals to wingers, the need to be exceedingly careful is great. I'm cool with Okposo to a degree. Buffalo needs to move Kane, Ennis, Moulson, etc. at the TDL to replenish the pipeline.

 

[Plural]

Let's not forget that Risto has 5 RFA years ahead of him instead of 4. That should have a big impact considering how the prices of UFA years are rising opposed to RFA years.

Considering Ekblad's contract I think the biggest question is that did they value the UFA years so high that it ultimately led into such a high cap hit. Or did they value the RFA years pretty high as well.

Like I have said, I do stand behind Murray on this about hi, being tough. I don't think that a figure of 4,5 is a proper one, but I want him to get as low as possible (especially Risto having 5 RFA years). If we end up giving big money to Risto, it is pretty impossible to get Jack and Sam to get anywhere near team friendly contracts. But if Risto gets a team friendly contract, it is easier to try to get them under those kind of contracts.

Yeah. You need to pick you battles and if I were the GM, this would be the battle I'd pick. Because it sets the tone for the future and you guys need to have team friendly contracts for the stars or you might end up having problems. Is this battle bit over the top if we consider Ristolainen only? Sure. But from the whole team dynamics POV, it's a risk worth taking.

That said, Risto is definitely worth north 4.5. I would guess they end up somewhere around 5/5.5 and I think that would count as a win in Murrays column.

 

[jc17]

Thanks on the RFA years.

I get the desire to create depth. Getting Risto to sign for $5.5M vs. $6M (or even $6.5M) doesn't do anything for Eichel/Reinhart. Nor does it do much to create depth.

You create depth by spending money on centers and defensemen, then rotating ELC and RFA wingers into and out of the line-up as they come up and then price out of the roster. If you're giving out big deals to wingers, the need to be exceedingly careful is great. I'm cool with Okposo to a degree. Buffalo needs to move Kane, Ennis, Moulson, etc. at the TDL to replenish the pipeline.

Week got Okposos and the Sabres' reputation is still getting better, but I don't think we can expect to pull of the Chicago model right away.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Have him sign a one year, $3.8 mil contract for this year today, the sign him to a $6 x 8 year deal tomorrow.

Murray gets one year cheap, Risto then get paid.....

 

[gallagt01]

Have him sign a one year, $3.8 mil contract for this year today, the sign him to a $6 x 8 year deal tomorrow.

Murray gets one year cheap, Risto then get paid.....

I'm sure this post is tongue-in-cheek on some level, but I'm almost certain Risto wouldn't be allowed to sign the second deal until after Jan. 1

 

[Wisent42]

Have him sign a one year, $3.8 mil contract for this year today, the sign him to a $6 x 8 year deal tomorrow.

Murray gets one year cheap, Risto then get paid.....

If that was even possible, the only thing it would do would be having both parts walk away from the table pretending they haven't backed down. The problem with such a deal is that this year isn't a problem. It's next year, when Eichel and Reinhart are up for new contracts. That's when we start needing the cap space. Saving some this year does nothing. So if anything, it should be a one year deal for $10M now in order to get a slightly cheaper long term deal after.

 

[JOVIS*]

Don't think anyone has posted the Yahoo puck Daddy article on Risto vs Trouba/Lindholm from a few days ago... clearly Ryan Lambert is NOT a fan

"RFA defensemen: Trouba vs. Lindholm vs. Ristolainen"
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rfa-defensemen-trouba-vs-lindholm-vs-ristolainen-trending-topics-143026363.html

 

[Paxon]

Have him sign a one year, $3.8 mil contract for this year today, the sign him to a $6 x 8 year deal tomorrow.

Murray gets one year cheap, Risto then get paid.....

But Murray doesn't care about this year being cheap. All that would do is save Pegula money. It doesn't do anything to save cap going forward. As has been pointed out, he wouldn't be able to sign that 8 year deal until the offseason.

 

[Havok89]

Don't think anyone has posted the Yahoo puck Daddy article on Risto vs Trouba/Lindholm from a few days ago... clearly Ryan Lambert is NOT a fan

"RFA defensemen: Trouba vs. Lindholm vs. Ristolainen"
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rfa-defensemen-trouba-vs-lindholm-vs-ristolainen-trending-topics-143026363.html

In the article he states Trouba had great analytics because Maurice plays him properly, sheltered by Buff taking the hardest minutes, and wonders why Dan Bylsma doesn't do the same for Risto. Buffalo doesn't have a defenseman as good as Buff to shelter

So all in all, Trouba has the higher potential because he excelled in a sheltered role, and Risto struggled defensively while being fed to the wolves? The whole article seems to be contradicting. He's comparing two similar young players' analytics, who played in completely different situations.

 

[haseoke39]

Dear Murray,

Your job is simple: blink.

Sincerely,

Everyone who wants to see the playoffs again

 

[tsujimoto74]

Dear Murray,

Your job is simple: blink.

Sincerely,

Everyone who wants to see the playoffs again

Eh, I think it depends on whether the gap is just on money or whether the team and Risto differ on term too. A 5-year contract would be bad news (buys 0 UFA years), and a 6-year term wouldn't be much better. I'd be fine with bridging him (though that could be costly a couple years from now, so it's not my preferred choice) or giving him 8 years. That stuff in the middle sets us up to either have to pay a boatload of money to keep him, or lose him as a young UFA.

 

[dkollidas]

I think a big difference here might Ben the fact that Risto's camp see'/ the Ekblad deal, and says "well, if he gets $7.5Mper over 8 years, we should get around $6.5M on that type of deal"

Whereas the organization is looking at it and saying "well, Florida also is buying 4yrs of Unrestricted free agency, which is half the contract, but we're only buying 3yrs of UFA status." which is why they may feel something in the low to mid "5's" is more reasonable.


And to those saying 500K-1M isn't a big deal... it might not be now, but if you save $500K-$1M on Ristolainen, 500K-$1M on Reinhart and 500K-$1M on Eichel... that's $1.5M$3M to spend towards upgrading the roster elsewhere, when Buffalo will likely be a cap team. That's the difference between being able to afford a $4M defensemen versus a $5.5M-$7M defenseman. Or the difference between one $3M winger versus two $3M wingers.

 

[krt88]

At this stage I'd be trying to get him to signs 1 year 5.5m deal. Let him earn the 7 year 49m deal.

 

[Dogewow]

In the article he states Trouba had great analytics because Maurice plays him properly, sheltered by Buff taking the hardest minutes, and wonders why Dan Bylsma doesn't do the same for Risto. Buffalo doesn't have a defenseman as good as Buff to shelter

So all in all, Trouba has the higher potential because he excelled in a sheltered role, and Risto struggled defensively while being fed to the wolves? The whole article seems to be contradicting. He's comparing two similar young players' analytics, who played in completely different situations.

It's articles like that that make me hate analytics at times. It's astonishing how few people use basic level context when dropping the analytics argument.

 

[Plural]

I think a big difference here might Ben the fact that Risto's camp see'/ the Ekblad deal, and says "well, if he gets $7.5Mper over 8 years, we should get around $6.5M on that type of deal"

Whereas the organization is looking at it and saying "well, Florida also is buying 4yrs of Unrestricted free agency, which is half the contract, but we're only buying 3yrs of UFA status." which is why they may feel something in the low to mid "5's" is more reasonable.


And to those saying 500K-1M isn't a big deal... it might not be now, but if you save $500K-$1M on Ristolainen, 500K-$1M on Reinhart and 500K-$1M on Eichel... that's $1.5M$3M to spend towards upgrading the roster elsewhere, when Buffalo will likely be a cap team. That's the difference between being able to afford a $4M defensemen versus a $5.5M-$7M defenseman. Or the difference between one $3M winger versus two $3M wingers.

Yeah, and watching the past playoffs, it's clear that you need depth to win the big series. Getting those quality players in the smaller roles can be the deciding factor between a first round exit and Stanley Cup finals.

So, getting your big guns all signed 500k-1M lower might be a huge deal. Doesn't seem much when thinking about one contract. But spread it around with your 3-5 best players and you might be looking at at big difference in your middle-6.

 

[Reddawg]

At this stage I'd be trying to get him to signs 1 year 5.5m deal. Let him earn the 7 year 49m deal.

That's exactly how PK ended up making $9 million a year.

 

[JOVIS*]

That's exactly how PK ended up making $9 million a year.

that and the small detail that PK won the Norris trophy during the bridge deal, which is highly unlikely for Rasmus in the next couple years on a team in transition....

 

[Aladyyn]

that and the small detail that PK won the Norris trophy during the bridge deal, which is highly unlikely for Rasmus in the next couple years on a team in transition....

Ah, the one season where Josh Gorges was a positive possession player. Everyone was so astonished they gave PK the Norris